Raid Warlock

[nobbie]

I'm playing with the idea of respeccing my current SM/Ruin Warlock to something more supportive for our guild's MC and upcoming BWL raids.

Demonology looks good in this regard - hopefully not just on paper - but I have no idea yet how much and what from the Demonology tree I should use, and how much from the other trees.

Has anyone here already made a successful Demonology raid build, and wants to share his/her experiences and talent choices?

[MongoJerry]

Funny that you should mention this. :lol:

http://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/index...topic=7438

[Luminon]

First off SM/Ruin is a very viable MC/BWL spec, especially for alliance with Blessing of Salvation, the Demonology tree has some great utility though.

That said there are two popular raid builds involving demonology. The first is the very common MD/Ruin. Core of this build is raiding with the imp for the extra threat reduction, since that's the real limiting factor to your damage (especially in BWL on bosses like the Broodlord.

The second build is SM/DS. The idea here is to sacrifice either a voidwalker for great health regen (great for bosses with AOE, especially when combined with siphon life) or the succubus for a whopping +25% shadow damage to all your dots and shadowbolts. You'll miss out on the faster shadowbolts though, which can be a pain on certain bosses like Chomaggus where you want to get in and out of line of sight as fast as possible.

Neither of these builds is great for PvP, with MD/Ruin you'll be forced to seducenuke, the second will rely heavilly on DOTs.

I've provided some sample talent builds, most of it is pretty straightforward though the points in Improved Voidwalker/Succubus could be shifted to Fel Intellect/Stamina and Improved Shadowbolt could be replaced with Cataclysm if you have a low mana pool.
Playing these builds is not much diffrent from playing a SM/Ruin spec, DOT on things that last at least the full duration of the DOT, CoD on offtanked adds and such, then spam away on the shadowbolts.

As for why not to take soullink: you'll mostly run MC/BWL with the imp out, and he doesn't have enough health to soullink with safely, and neither does the succubus; especially in AOE situations.

Hope that helps, and best of 'lock. :P

Edit: typo.
Edit2: Sample builds.

[Concillian]

For raiding, demonology is best suited for Demonic Sacrifice, usually voidwalker so you can choose between the extra health or mana (with a lifetap). This is usually coupled with Shadow Mastery.

Your DPS is lower, but between bandages and the DS 2% life per 4 sec you have a virtually unlimited supply of mana. Or for trash where you have time to drink after, a succy sac for a total +25% shadow damage makes for pretty good DPS (not quite up to what a SM . Ruin build will put out, but not far behind, and much better mana efficiency).

You end up quite versatile, as you can put out sustained damage (sac void) or high damage for a shorter period (sac succy) plus you end up with improved imp and healthstones so you can give a nice stam buff a group for when your assignment is simply to keep something banished.

I recently respecced to SM / DS from full demonology and I like it. I chose to go 1/2 in improved healthstone because one of each type can be carried, I figure other warlocks will either be 0/2 or 2/2. This way we have a pretty good chance of a tank being able to have a 0/2, 1/2, and 2/2 healthstones.

[redinter]

I use a Demonology/ruin build and am very happy with it. It is very versatile on all encounters and the damage output is respectable. I often find myself high on the aggro list, so the limiting factor is, as Luminon said, your threat. Imps 20% reduction combined with the shamans TAT (or paladin for you alliance folk) is needed to help you go all out. Thus I don't miss shadow mastery. As for equipment, I try to have as much +damage equipment as possible. This is my philosophy behind my lock, do as much damage as possible, it is better to have to throttle back, than to lack the damage on fights that needs it (Vaelastrasz for example)

That said, the versatilitiy, as already posted by some, gives you threat reduction, regeneration, damage increse, etc.

[Raelynn]

I've been running with a MD/ruin spec for a while. I like it because I get the variety of bonuses from the pets, but get a nice damage boost from ruin and shadowburn (which is actually useful now that it doesn't have to be the actual killing blow). As the others have said the threat reduction is a big thing in raids.

[RTM]

I've tried out a number of builds including Soul Link/Nightfall but I keep coming back to the Dark Pact build I levelled wtih. Turns out that it suits my style for raiding as well: buffed Imp, great stamina, Dark Pact for longevity, 2.5sec Shadowbolts, and Shadowburn for padding the damage meters. ;)

I did raid MC once with my Soul Link/Nightfall build and I wasn't too impressed. As mentioned above, you're kind of expected to have your imp out and Soul Link doesn't really work well with the imp's low health. A few points of damage mitigation are nothing compared to costing your entire party 500+ health when the imp dies from a random stomp or AoE. I did not have Ruin in my build, so drawing aggro was never really a concern either, so the MD Imp buff was wasted in my opinion. All of this would be different if you go MD/Ruin, of course. The 3 sec Shadowbolts were a huge bummer too, although you may feel different if you're not a big damage meters whore like myself. :)

You can do some nifty things with Demonic Sacrifice but it always seemed kind of selfish to me, and I was never comfortable trying the DS->rez pet trick. You can output some sick damage or be pretty much invincible if you go that route though.

There are two talent builds that I would like to try: Soul Link/Shadowburn/Improved Lifetap, and Ruin/Demonic Sacrifice/Improved Lifetap. The first gets you all the MD buffs plus 2.5sec Shadowbolts & Shadowburn, the latter gets you big crits and DS goodies. Both lose out on Shadow Mastery (made up somewhat through MD & DS buffs), reduced interrupt Drain Life (a biggie for soloing), Nighfall, and Siphon Life. Either build would be suitable for raiding in my opinion, since Drain Life, Nighfall, and Siphon Life are rarely used.

[Icebird]

I was specced MD / Ruin for a while. A Succubs with Unholy Power packs quite a punch for soloing, and Master Demonologist and Demonic Sacrifice give you a ton of versatility. (Threat reductiion? resists? health regen? extra shadow damage?). Improved Healthstone and Improved Imp are very party friendly.

There are people who swear by SM / Demonic Sacrifice, though it would seem odd to go without a pet. And apparently its quite viable in PvP (check out Finkrat3 or Evil's latest video for a couple of examples). Most of the time you are using Drain Life instead of Shadowbolt as your base spell.

Chris

[Lissa]

For the raiding Horde Warlock, MD/Ruin seems to be the preference raid build since you can have an Imp out in the MT group and still have threat reduction without the MT getting threat reduction from a Shaman in the group using the new threat reducing totem.

For the raiding Alliance Warlock, SM/Ruin seems to be the preferred build because of Greater Blessing of Salvation can be placed on the Warlock without effecting the agro generation of the tanks in their group.

[Luminon]

There are two talent builds that I would like to try: Soul Link/Shadowburn/Improved Lifetap, and Ruin/Demonic Sacrifice/Improved Lifetap.

That 7/31/11 +2 build is actually the new warlock pvp cookie cutter build. It works though you won't be doing as much damage as some other builds. In my opinion it's superior to the NF/SL build though, because you have more controll over your damage (and you don't rely on a dispellable DOT).
The second build seems kind of useless, since you have to spend 13+ points on pet buffs you won't get any use out of since you cacrifice your demon in the first place. SM/Ruin seems a lot superior to me.

There are people who swear by SM / Demonic Sacrifice, though it would seem odd to go without a pet. And apparently its quite viable in PvP (check out Finkrat3 or Evil's latest video for a couple of examples). Most of the time you are using Drain Life instead of Shadowbolt as your base spell.

It works... untill someone starts hammering their decursive key. Then your damage output gets negated. Also, I prefer not to use drains in PvP, they can be dispelled and are basically a big sign saying "SILENCE ME".

[nobbie]

Thanks for the tips. I've now respecced to the MD/Ruin build, which looks solid and which seems to make the most sense coming from a SM/Ruin build - dump the Affliction tree and get the best of the Demonology tree instead. The only annoying thing now is the long casting time of Corruption, which is back to 2 seconds from an instant spell under SM/Ruin :)

[nobbie]

I've respecced again a bit and am now using a "Soul Link - Shadowburn" Demonologist build (7/31/13), because I just can't live without instant Corruption :)

[Bob the Beholder]

I've respecced again a bit and am now using a "Soul Link - Shadowburn" Demonologist build (7/31/13), because I just can't live without instant Corruption :)
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That is the build I eventually settled on for my warlock--a good balance of offense, defense and utility.