Comment Thread for the Warrior Guide

[Artega]

Since I'm aping Skandranon's style of posting the actual guide in one thread, I'm copying his idea for a comment thread, as well :)

If it isn't immediately obvious, the guide is still in a very rough form, still incomplete, and awaiting scrutinizing by other community members. Eventually, I intend to expand it to encompass ZG/AQ20-level gear, MC/BWL/AQ40-level gear, and then eventually Ragnaros/Nefarian-level gear (as well as Necropolis stuff when that raid is released.) Additionally, I'll expand it to encompass Protection as a whole (PvE strategies and basics, and even Warrior basics), and give it detailed descriptions of talents and skills. That's all well into the future, however.

(This thread is getting posted first. The guide, after I decide how I want to have it laid out specifically, will follow.)

[Artega]

The guide is up, such as it is. Some updates for it:

Anyone that's actually seen it before I put the updates in place will probably notice that the equipment sets are incomplete, and the Professions section has several placeholder bits of text. Since I wrote this guide mostly from memory, I wasn't able to cross-reference with Thottbot, which I intend to do over the next day or two :)

(This is also the explanation why several of the racial abilities are incorrect in their specifics.)

Some things readers can help with:

Formatting. I can't seem to find a way to make the forums indent paragraphs and outline formats properly.

Formatting again. If you think something looks ugly, suggest an improvement and I'll give it a shot.

AB and AV. My experience with both of those BGs as a Protection Warrior is somewhat lacking (since I don't have much taste for Conquest games or Reputation grinding, and I love Capture the Flag), so if anyone has experience in those as a Protection Warrior, speak up :)

Planned for the future:

Screenshots of the Battlegrounds maps with photoshopped additions showing Offense/Defense positions, flagrunning paths, and so forth.

[Darian]

IIA: Talents: Common Substitutions:

It's somewhat common to drop Piercing Howl and one point of Unbridled Wrath in order to take the final point of Tactical Mastery and Anger Management as well, although this is more of a nod to PvE play.

VC: Battlegrounds: Alterac Valley

I know you haven't started it yet, but I'll relate my favorite thing to do in AV: bait and kite. The protection warrior is THE guy to pull NPCs off enemy objectives, and careful use of the Warrior PvP trinket and Demo can enable a single warrior to totally clean out a tower by scaling it then jumping off... causing one of the most beautiful trains in the entire game and laying the objective wide open for the rest of your team.

[Skandranon]

An excellent start, Artega! Usually I'm too concerned about warriors charging me and thwacketing my squishy mage back and forth, but those are MS warriors and I haven't seen much of the Prot variety in BGs. The guide certainly highlights how the strengths of the Prot tree can be put to use, and the WSG advice is very handy. Hopefully you can get into AB/AV some more and update soon!

(Also, you've just reminded me that it's been over a year since I wrote mine. Eep! I should get to work.)

[Sir_Die_alot]

Personally I find little use for shield wall other than an "oh crap!" ability. Without 2 talent points in it it still functions as such. Also 1 in improved bloodrage seems like a waste to me since it's biggest use is a prereq for last stand. The defensive tree build I'm using now looks like this and I'm happy with the cheap sunders which adds some healthy damage. I'll even throw 1 or 2 on cloth wearers just to make them extra squishy against hunters since their crits are more damage than my shieldslam. With the extra point in tactical mastery I can afford a stance switch to hamstring. I also world pvp more than I do BG and I find this better versus rogues which are always procing free hits with dodge. As such thrash blade is better than the timeworn due to having a higher damage slower hit rate. For instances though I still use the timeworn.

As for win lose in pvp? Versus elemental attacks (mages priests warlocks) I lose almost every time. Only someone else's ineptness or my own extreme luck has a hope of saving me. I can't stop as much damage as they can with cc and kiting. I need someone backing me up to even try.

Rogues: 1v1 I always win unless I screw something up. Improved overpower will own them even with a 1 hand weapon. Add cheap sunders FTW. B)

Hunters are pretty similar. Use defensive stance and shieldblock to approach, switch to battle to snare and overpower. Intercept only if you think you are clear of traps. If they try to use aspect of the cheetah to kite you, shoot them with a weapon for the daze snare.

Other warriors: toss up and totally dependant on if my improved revenge procs a lot or not at all. I've completely dominated and been completely dominated arms/fury warrs wearing simlar equipment. I've either stunned them enough or I haven't.

Paladins are just unbreakable. A good paladin should never lose to a protection warror. On the up side we will spend 5 minutes killing eachother so we tend to leave eachother alone. :P In BG it's snare, probably some sunders, and move on to something that I am more able to deal with unless I get a chance to break a spell cast.

For shamans save your consussion blow. Save some rage too. This takes some judgement and rage management. Get their health bar down to a point then shieldbash (with the improved silence) when the silence is about to wear off use concussion blow. Somewhere in there you should probably use sheildslam to push their health down further. If you've done this right you stopped their heals long enough to execute them. I've tried this with pallys and unfortunately they can bubble out of the silence. :( *also if you are tauren you can lead into this combo with warstomp.

[Xanthix]

Good guide! I look forward to the sections on the specific battlegrounds.

Under chest enchants you mention a +5 to all stats enchant. As far as I know, there is no +5. The highest you can get is +4, and even that is very rare. I had to settle for +3 since I couldn't find anyone who could do +4.

[Concillian]

Excellent, though a few nits:

There are no stamina enchants for gloves that I am aware of.

You may want to discuss the relative value of STR vs AGI for a warrior (usually STR > AGI for offensive power)

Your talent build seems VERY WSG centric. My experience with piercing howl in AB and AV suggest it's not terribly useful, and improved overpower is very important in PvP builds, even if using a 1H weapon.

My personal protection PvP build would differ from yours in the following way
subtract:
piercing howl, 5 UW and 5 defiance

Add:
1 Imp. Bloodrage, 1 Last Stand (Last stand is like a free potion in PvP since combat rarely lasts 30 seconds)
1 tac mastery, 1 Anger Management (Anger management is superior rage gen to UW with 1 rage per tick)
2 improved charge (a good portion of your rage for a battle comes from charge)
2 improved overpower (in my opinoin vital for any PvP build. I noticed a huge difference in damage output between my piercing howl build and a build with improved overpower)
3 Improved Sunder (Sunder is awesome for helping the rest of your team, since your offense is likely less than your teammates will be, this opens up anywhere from 5-30% additional damage from them. Especially on a flag runner, this can be a significant amount of increased damage)

I would also choose Blackhand's Breadth over Mark of Tyranny for PvP of any sort, even as a protection build, but that's a preference thing.

WSG without piercing howl, my tactics as a protection build were generally to charge and hamstring a pally or priest, conc blow someone else following, then intercept the flag runner and sunder him as much as possible. Flags can go down to two things, taking out all the support and then the runner, or pure burst damage. I'm usually in PUGs, so I more often see people attacking the flag carrier while others are healing him.

5 sunders on the flag runner enables about 25-30% more damage from physical damage to the target, this is a significant increase if you have 2-4 people hammering on the carrier, enough that you can sometimes power through the healing. I've found this is usually easier and more successful than trying to coordinate a PUG into taking down support first. If I would try for support, I'd either end up in a long battle that removed a healer from the fray, but did nothing else useful, or simply snared and dead before anything useful happened to the flag runner.

[Concillian]

Personally I find little use for shield wall other than an "oh crap!" ability. Without 2 talent points in it it still functions as such. Also 1 in improved bloodrage seems like a waste to me since it's biggest use is a prereq for last stand.
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In my opinion, THE use for shield wall is in AV or AB when defending a flag, you're the last defender and you know you have respawns coming. Here the extra seconds and last stand health can buy your team a significant amount of time for a respawn at a nearby GY.

[Sir_Die_alot]

In my opinion, THE use for shield wall is in AV or AB when defending a flag, you're the last defender and you know you have respawns coming.  Here the extra seconds and last stand health can buy your team a significant amount of time for a respawn at a nearby GY.
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I just think spending 2 talentopints for 5 extra seconds every half hour at most doesn't come close to worth it when compaired to other avalible talents. If you are looking to spend defensive tree talent points that I don't personally use I would say improved disarm has this beat. Rogues and especially hunters rarely use a weapon chain. And yes hunters can hurt melee range with improved raptorstrike and a 2 hander. :)

Maybe if it was 5 seconds per talent... maybe.

[Artega]

Because I'm lazy and in the middle of moving (and thus don't have time for a proper update), here's a thing or two to keep the gears turning:

Which is better, Kromcrush's Chestplate, or Ornate Adamantium Breastplate? Both have identical +DEF; OAB has higher Armor and STA, but no STR, while Krom's has +16 STR in exchange for lower Armor and less STA.

To compare them directly:

Ornate Adamantium Breastplate
Binds when picked up
Chest --- Plate
807 Armor
+22 Stamina
Durability 135/135
Equip: Increased Defense +10.



Kromcrush's Chestplate
Binds when picked up
Chest --- Plate
777 Armor
+16 Strength
+16 Stamina
Durability 135/135
Requires Level 57
Equip: Increased Defense +10.


For my part, I'm a fervent supporter of Kromcrush's Chestplate; you lose 60 HP and 30 Armor, but gain 16 Strength (or 32 mAP.)

Next, let's compare a couple of different weapons for all-purpose use:


Timeworn Mace
Binds when picked up
One-Hand --- Mace
62-117 Damage --- Speed 2.20
(40.7 damage per second)
120 Armor
+7 Strength
+11 Stamina
Durability 90/90
Requires Level 57



Dal'Rend's Sacred Charge
Binds when picked up
Main Hand --- Sword
81-151 Damage --- Speed 2.80
(41.4 damage per second)
+4 Strength
Durability 90/90
Requires Level 58
Equip: Increases your chance to get a critical strike by 1%.
Set: Dal'Rend's Arms (1/2)


The point of contention here is the difference in weapon damage; Dal'Rend's will clearly hit quite a bit harder than the mace on an Overpower (it should be noted that Overpower and Revenge share the same cooldown timer!), especially considering the crit bonus. The flipside is that the mace grants an additional 110 HP and 120 Armor, meaning you'll be harder to kill. While more damage in PvP = good, I'd prefer the additional Armor and HP afforded by the mace, at the expense of 1% crit and more Overpower damage.

Discuss!

[Brista]

Quite possibly the most uncommon Warrior race (and perhaps the most uncommon race in the game overall), Trolls don’t have a great deal to offer to a Warrior. Berserking is useful for increasing your overall damage output (and especially Rage generation if you have Unbridled Wrath), but the increased damage taken makes this ability somewhat undesirable,

There are pvp situations where extra damage and rage is well worth it, most notably when you have a healer on you. Since healers dont last long in pv you want to achieve maximum nuisance before your healer drops.

and Throwing Specialization is pretty much crap, given that Throwing weapons can’t have stat boosts that Bows and Guns get.

Throwing specialization has been Thrown and Bows specialization since the last patch

Beast Slaying equally useless, given that all PvP opponents are Humanoid.

Except Druids in forms and ghost wolves. Also Hunter pets but they are not usually a sensible choice of target. 5% faster killing on a miner/skinner is not to be sniffed up if you're thinking of grinding a new toon to 60 fast

Troll Regeneration can actually be quite good if you manage to stack enough Spirit,

It's mediocre even if you pack lots of spirit. If you drop gear with useful stats in order to get more spirit you're probably gimping your warrior. Being out of combat for 2 seconds doesn't boost your life all that much on a non-troll - that's the amount you will recoup from this racial ability in 20 seconds of being in combat on a troll warrior which is roughly how long most pvp fights last



Great stuff, Artega, I'll nit more later time permitting

[Kevin]

Because I'm lazy and in the middle of moving (and thus don't have time for a proper update), here's a thing or two to keep the gears turning:

Which is better, Kromcrush's Chestplate, or Ornate Adamantium Breastplate?  Both have identical +DEF; OAB has higher Armor and STA, but no STR, while Krom's has +16 STR in exchange for lower Armor and less STA.

To compare them directly:

Ornate Adamantium Breastplate
Binds when picked up
Chest --- Plate
807 Armor
+22 Stamina
Durability 135/135
Equip: Increased Defense +10.
Kromcrush's Chestplate
Binds when picked up
Chest --- Plate
777 Armor
+16 Strength
+16 Stamina
Durability 135/135
Requires Level 57
Equip: Increased Defense +10.
For my part, I'm a fervent supporter of Kromcrush's Chestplate; you lose 60 HP and 30 Armor, but gain 16 Strength (or 32 mAP.)
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For a PvP build I suggest Kromcrush as well. 32 AP = 2.2 DPS. Yes you're not there for damage but doing more damage in PvP is not bad especially when you are not sacrificing that that much. 60 HP and 30 armor isn't that much to give up for 2.2 DPS. You also have to condsider what else you give up for the Ornate Adamantium. The In Dreams quest rewards (thott and alla didn't like to have the rewards nicely listed) are not the best choices for a prot warrior but getting a replacement damage necklace for Mark of Fordring is not as easy as it is to get Kromkrush. You're generally looking at the Darkmoon ammy or ZG/AQ/Ony/BWL/MC drops. I know the build is not centered on offense but it never hurts to have an offensive back-up set.

I'm actually looking to get a Kromcrush for my warrior for PvP purposes to wear over the Ornate Adamantium.

Next, let's compare a couple of different weapons for all-purpose use:
Timeworn Mace
Binds when picked up
One-Hand --- Mace
62-117 Damage --- Speed 2.20
(40.7 damage per second)
120 Armor
+7 Strength
+11 Stamina
Durability 90/90
Requires Level 57
Dal'Rend's Sacred Charge
Binds when picked up
Main Hand --- Sword
81-151 Damage --- Speed 2.80
(41.4 damage per second)
+4 Strength
Durability 90/90
Requires Level 58
Equip: Increases your chance to get a critical strike by 1%.
Set: Dal'Rend's Arms (1/2)
The point of contention here is the difference in weapon damage; Dal'Rend's will clearly hit quite a bit harder than the mace on an Overpower (it should be noted that Overpower and Revenge share the same cooldown timer!), especially considering the crit bonus.  The flipside is that the mace grants an additional 110 HP and 120 Armor, meaning you'll be harder to kill.  While more damage in PvP = good, I'd prefer the additional Armor and HP afforded by the mace, at the expense of 1% crit and more Overpower damage.

Discuss!
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Take em both and use em both. Weapon swap macro's are some of the easiest macros to do (and I make it easier with CapnBry's WeaponSwap function). You want to be harder to kill, i.e. you know you are going into heavy fire, keep that timeworn on. You and a few other people are going in to take out the two defenders on a point in AB put that higer DPS, higher crit, bigger overpower damage weapon on.

I even recommend getting a really fast weapon (I like my Eskhandar's for this) to prevent people from capping the flag in AB. Misses can happen and the faster you swing and put damage on the people trying to get the flag (if WW isn't ready or if someone else isn't throwing out an AoE) the better off you are. I have managed with my hunter several times to go up by a flag, shoot someone one a couple of times to make people think I'm in the fight then steal a cap in a heated battle because people weren't paying attention. Just taking that flag to contested is huge as they don't get to use that GY for a bit, even if you lose, and it has a tendency to make people leave other points they could have taken.

Just some thoughts.

I still don't PvP a lot but I've been doing it as a PvE prot spec when I take my warrior in.

[Artega]

I know the build is not centered on offense but it never hurts to have an offensive back-up set.

Actually, I was looking for a decent balance between offense and defense with the all-purpose set. Doing some basic math between the anti-melee and all-purpose, the anti-melee seems to be a bit redundant; you end up sacrificing quite a bit for a very small gain. Might be until ZG or MC-level items before an anti-melee set becomes worth using :)

I even recommend getting a really fast weapon (I like my Eskhandar's for this) to prevent people from capping the flag in AB.  Misses can happen and the faster you swing and put damage on the people trying to get the flag (if WW isn't ready or if someone else isn't throwing out an AoE) the better off you are.

That's what Silent Fang is for, though Eskhandar's is definitely better in every way :)

Silent Fang is one of the fastest weapons in the game, at 1.70. Another viable choice for the gear level would be The Cruel Hand of Timmy, from Timmy the Cruel in Scarlet Stratholme.

[Artega]

Great stuff, Artega, I'll nit more later time permitting
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Keep em coming. I haven't been able to find an updated source of information on racial abilities, so a lot of it came from memory, since I don't have access to WoW for another couple of weeks :)

[ima_nerd]

Looks good except for one nitpick. Troll Berzerking(sp?) in its current form is not the one you said in your guide. I can't give you the exact wording but i's along the lines of an attack speed increase varying from 10-30% with 10% if you activate at full health and the lower hp you get, the closer the buff will be to 30%. No extra damage, just pure frenzying :)