Druids walk into Onyxia's Lair ...

[nobbie]

The following thread in the English WoW forum reports that a Druid-only party has beaten Onyxia during the 2nd attempt!

Albeit the party seems to be very well equipped with MC/BWL gear, I think this a noteworthy accomplishment. Congratulations! :D

Pictures
Video

I wonder if a similarly well equipped Shaman-only or Paladin-only party could do the same?

[Rinnhart]

The following thread in the English WoW forum reports that a Druid-only party has beaten Onyxia during the 2nd attempt!

Albeit the party seems to be very well equipped with MC/BWL gear, I think this a noteworthy accomplishment. Congratulations! :D

Pictures
Video

I wonder if a similarly well equipped Shaman-only or Paladin-only party could do the same?
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Paladins... would they be able to keep her from DBing the raid? Your main tanks would need solid mana pools and + defense to make up for the slab of AC druids have over us. Which becomes an itemization problem. Shamans have bigger AC gaps to make up and aggro management would be a serious problem. I honestly don't think a paladin or shaman could tank the whole fight simply due to their aggro being mana-centric. Very, very mana-intensive raid forces.

Paladins- no, because of low DPS resulting in a very long fight (phase 3 = hell) + hate management issues.

Shamans- no, because of pure hate management issues. Maybe with the perfect balance of specs. Ungodly swarms of totems.

[Kevin]

The following thread in the English WoW forum reports that a Druid-only party has beaten Onyxia during the 2nd attempt!

Albeit the party seems to be very well equipped with MC/BWL gear, I think this a noteworthy accomplishment. Congratulations! :D

Pictures
Video

I wonder if a similarly well equipped Shaman-only or Paladin-only party could do the same?
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That's very cool.

I don't think paladins could get through phase 2. Only attacks would be judging righteousness (or command but it would do less damage since she wouldn't be stunned) every 8 to 10 seconds depending on talents and holy shock every 30. They could muster maybe 1000 DPS in phase 2. That's what, 3-5 hunters worth of DPS? And the whelps would take forever to bring down as well which would just drop DPS on her more.

Phase 1 and Phase 3 wouldn't be too horribly bad if they all new to be smart and get to the tanking spot if they got aggro. But there would be no traditional tanking, even with wisdom up the mana pool would run down too quickly for even a high aggro paladin to keep it up I think. Sure the rest of the raid having salvation would help with that (just have the tank click it off and be the only one with righteous fury for a decent boost over the rest of the aggro generation) but I'm still not sure that would be enough.

I was in a all paladin MC raid on the test realms for 1.9 and it was not pretty with aggro control, of course we know more about paladin aggro now, but Ony would still be tough on the aggro side and the DPS in phase 2 would lead to a lot of deep breaths. If you could get her down to 19% so that the hammers could fly you could actually get some pretty solid phase 3 DPS.

Shaman would have similar issues with the mana pool for aggro and the physical damage she does would get somewhat harsh on the tank, though the healing would be stronger and if you had enough shaman with mana tide in the tanks group to keep the mana pool up (that and the trinket reward) you might be able to overcome that issue and keep that rockbiter, windfury totem tank monster with aggro. Phase 2 would be a lot simpler for the shaman.

I don't think the other "hybrids" could do it though. As mentioned sustainable aggro would be an issue and keeping mana levels high enough to

It would be interesting to see what 40 hunters could do with her too. Train pets with 120 FR and as much HP and armor as you can add the "tank" hunter just mends pet until OOM that pet dies and the next takes over. :) She is taunt immune, but is she growl immune (since growl just adds a set amount of threat)?

What about 40 warlocks? How well can you kite her and drain life? :) Sac the "tank" voidy (if suffering works on her, same question as growl) when you can't keep it up for the sheild so you can get yourself healed but wil another pet be able to take over? How long would the sucubus that were doing DPS last? Sure each party would have an imp out for the buff and there would be drain tanking galore but could you rotate it well enough so that all the debuff slots weren't filled with it?

[Luminon]

I've got a movie of a warlock tanking ony, but he's taking a lot of healing, so a warlock only raid probably won't work.
[edit] Though i suppose since everyone's soulstoned they can afford to have everyone die once, so it might yet work.

My guild actually wiped on onyxia at 1% once, and the 4 paladins left standing couldn't finish her off, that was before they got their execute spell though.

[Walkiry]

If you could get her down to 19% so that the hammers could fly you could actually get some pretty solid phase 3 DPS.
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There's a joke about turtles and plumbers hidden in there, but I can't quite put my finger on it...

[Kevin]

I watched the video.

I saw things that bugged me. One of them was not seeing a Leader of the Pack aura on the guy taking the video but maybe they didn't have enough ferals to get one in each group.

I saw druids casting hurricane without barkskin up. The person taking the video even had the cast stopped from damage. I've actually macro'd hurricane to cast barkskin before casting hurricane because there is no reason to not put barkskin up. If you have a 1K mana spell you don't want to lose any of the damage it can do and the no interrupt and 20% damage reduction is a big deal when you are expecting to have aggro or potentially get aggro.

It was nice to see what I thought were cats going in to cower then leaving. Use those aggro tools.

But it just bothers me to see a hurricane go up without barkskin. You even get 5 extra seconds of barkskin to either position the AoE or for those initial seconds after you drop to bear if you get a lot of aggro.

I didn't see enough moonkins but that might have just been because the camera man was up close too much. :) He was in a moonkin aura for a lot of it.

But it was cool to watch.

[Zarathustra]

But it just bothers me to see a hurricane go up without barkskin.
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Agreed. There's just no reason to forgo Barkskin. I tend to beat on Onyxia until an Omen of Clarity proc, cast Barkskin, then cast Hurricane to slow her down as she nibbles on the main tank. Then the spell is free AND won't get interrupted.

[Kevin]

Agreed.  There's just no reason to forgo Barkskin.  I tend to beat on Onyxia until an Omen of Clarity proc, cast Barkskin, then cast Hurricane to slow her down as she nibbles on the main tank.  Then the spell is free AND won't get interrupted.
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Yep I love omen. :) And since barkskin doesn't eat the omen since it isn't a heal or damage spell you get the free hurricane as well. :)

I use omen procs for starfires on her as well just for fun. :)

[Rinnhart]

That's very cool.

I don't think paladins could get through phase 2.  Only attacks would be judging righteousness (or command but it would do less damage since she wouldn't be stunned) every 8 to 10 seconds depending on talents and holy shock every 30.  They could muster maybe 1000 DPS in phase 2.  That's what, 3-5 hunters worth of DPS?  And the whelps would take forever to bring down as well which would just drop DPS on her more.
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Can't you melee from the ground? We usually have a couple rogues who just keep on her through phase two, but I've always been on whelp duty, so the details are lost to me.

Edit:
Phase 2 in the video, yeah, you can see all the guys in cat form beating on her. They have the same issue I'd imagine a paladin raid having, though, each fireball hits half the raid because they're all immediately under her.

And no combat rez = the suck. At least shamans would have reincarnate.

[Kevin]

Can't you melee from the ground? We usually have a couple rogues who just keep on her through phase two, but I've always been on whelp duty, so the details are lost to me.

Edit:
Phase 2 in the video, yeah, you can see all the guys in cat form beating on her. They have the same issue I'd imagine a paladin raid having, though, each fireball hits half the raid because they're all immediately under her.

And no combat rez = the suck. At least shamans would have reincarnate.
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Only special melee attacks can hit her from the ground. You can not hit her with auto attack but you can hit her with Mortal Strike, sunder, shield slam. Heroic Strike doesn't work since it is next attack. So rogues and druids can sinister strike/backstab/evis, the cats were able to claw/shred/ferocious bite. So the cats were doing specials, the paladins can not hit her with anything but judgements/holy shock.

[LochnarITB]

Pictures
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*whistle*

*foul on the play - pre-buffage - arcane brilliance spotted on a player*

*no penalty - confirms the fact that every raid needs the help of a mage*

;) :lol: :lol:

[Rinnhart]

Only special melee attacks can hit her from the ground.  You can not hit her with auto attack but you can hit her with Mortal Strike, sunder, shield slam.  Heroic Strike doesn't work since it is next attack.  So rogues and druids can sinister strike/backstab/evis, the cats were able to claw/shred/ferocious bite.  So the cats were doing specials, the paladins can not hit her with anything but judgements/holy shock.
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Nail in the coffin for the paladins. :(

[MongoJerry]

Nail in the coffin for the paladins.  :(

I don't know. It's not like Phase 2 is particularly hard on a raid. It would mean that it would be a very long phase, and the paladins would have to be prepared in case of deep breathes or three. Still, I think it could be done with all those auras, blessings and healing going around. It would certainly be a very unique fight.

[Xanthix]

I don't know.  It's not like Phase 2 is particularly hard on a raid.
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Isn't the prevailing wisdom that Onyxia deep breaths when there is not enough DPS on her? It seems to me that if it became a long attrition battle, the flying dragon with the AOE fire breath would have the advantage. :)


Do you think 40 priests could do it? DPS would be no problem, but could you get enough healing on a priest tank? Could shadowform, inner fire, 300 fire resist, and a mess of armor potions be enough to mitigate the damage so it's healable with 10 or 20 healers?

[The Gnu]

Could shadowform, inner fire, 300 fire resist, and a mess of armor potions be enough to mitigate the damage so it's healable with 10 or 20 healers?
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Definatly.
We had one of our priests tank Onyxia through phase one, without any trouble. You wouldn't really lack dps in phase two either, with the single target damage of a shadow priest, and all the dots.

[MongoJerry]

Do you think 40 priests could do it? DPS would be no problem, but could you get enough healing on a priest tank? Could shadowform, inner fire, 300 fire resist, and a mess of armor potions be enough to mitigate the damage so it's healable with 10 or 20 healers?

I imagine that aggro could be an issue. Obviously, the raid would need to be told to not use Mind Blast during Phase 1 and 3. The thing is that when Onyxia does her Wing Buffet, she reduces the aggro of the main tank, and if the priest tank runs out of mana and can't build up aggro again, that could hurt. I suppose the raid could be told to use wands only during phase 1 and that the healers could be put in rotations to make sure that no one person heals the tank too much. In phase 3, the Alliance priests would have a major advantage in that they could use Fear Ward to ensure that the tank stays unfeared. WotF has a two minute cooldown and the PvP trinket has a 5 minute cooldown, so that means the Horde would be dealing with a lot of fears. Hm, come to think of it, how did the druid team deal with this? I guess the fears don't last as long as they used to, but still that does mean that Onyxia gets turned quite often.

How did you guys manage aggro in Phase 1 with the priest tanking?

[Luminon]

Definatly.
We had one of our priests tank Onyxia through phase one, without any trouble. You wouldn't really lack dps in phase two either, with the single target damage of a shadow priest, and all the dots.
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Does mind flay place a debuff like drain life/mana do? Having DoTs constantly pushed off her would be a pain, and since you can't chain cast mind blast the dps would be pretty bad due to the debuff limit I imagine.

[MongoJerry]

Does mind flay place a debuff like drain life/mana do? Having DoTs constantly pushed off her would be a pain, and since you can't chain cast mind blast the dps would be pretty bad due to the debuff limit I imagine.

You could always use Smite if you needed to. Plus wands. I'd worry about using too many Mind Blasts due to potential aggro issues.

[Professor Frink]

Does mind flay place a debuff like drain life/mana do? Having DoTs constantly pushed off her would be a pain, and since you can't chain cast mind blast the dps would be pretty bad due to the debuff limit I imagine.
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I thought the debuffs from channeled spells like mindflay didn't count towards the limit. In raid fights where debuffs are just being dumped on (like drek'thar at the end of AV) it looks like his debuff count fluctuates rapidly, sometimes several more debuffs than the 16 limit.

Does smite benefit from +all spell damage gear? I remember hearing somewhere that holy damage spells only got +holy damage boosts...

-- frink

[Lissa]

I thought the debuffs from channeled spells like mindflay didn't count towards the limit.  In raid fights where debuffs are just being dumped on (like drek'thar at the end of AV) it looks like his debuff count fluctuates rapidly, sometimes several more debuffs than the 16 limit.
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They do. I've had drain souls, drain lifes, and drain manas knocked off because of the debuff limit.