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ShadowHM,Mar 11 2006, 04:20 PM Wrote:
Yet you were quick to suggest that men should have the right to demand that his erstwhile partner should have one. :angry:
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Where? I did no such thing. At least, I don't think I did. I never intended to, and I may have been misunderstood.
:o
And my misdirection is a perfectly valid argument. Same sort of circumstance, cause, effect, and outcome.
And my dear, I know how you feel about personal responsibility. **Tips tam**
As for the condom bit... All I will say is, women have their wits. "I thought you loved me, I thought you were commited to me, I am on the pill... Are you trying to say I cheated on you and that you will catch something from me? You don't love me! You don't trust me! You aint committed to me! Blah blah blah!" At some point, a man does pretty much anything to just shut her up. Never had any personal experience with that sort of thing actually, so my information is second hand. Best I could offer.
Me personally, while I admire and respect women, I do not hold a lot of trust for them. Sort of a personal policy. Never trust anything that bleeds for seven days and doesn't die. I have made sure that all of my dealings with them have been on my terms and that I was properly protected. Never give out my real name, my real number, never take them home, never take them to your familar hang outs, etc, etc, etc. Not that I did a whole lot of that. It was never my thing. But I had other things in my life and I just couldn't afford to settle down with some broad that wanted to play house.
No offense meant. Just letting it all hang out. No sense beating around the bush or candy coating it.
All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.
"Isn't this where...."
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Doc Wrote:As for the condom bit... All I will say is, women have their wits....
And men are witless? Sorry, I don't buy that. The men in my life have wits. I am not going to sympathize with those who don't.
Quote:Me personally, while I admire and respect women, I do not hold a lot of trust for them. Sort of a personal policy. Never trust anything that bleeds for seven days and doesn't die.
Kinda like "Never trust anything that keeps its brains in the smaller head? :P That policy saved me from a few of the more gormless lines I heard too.
As to the misdirection, perhaps this was yet another case of my desire for brevity causing me to miss clarity. "The shoe is on the other foot" was meant to convey the fact that now men do have to face the consequences of unintended preganacies, in a way that they never did have to for most of the history of humanity. You are the one who chose (once again) to trot out the race issue.
Quote:No offense meant. Just letting it all hang out. No sense beating around the bush or candy coating it.
Indeed.
And you may call it righteousness
When civility survives,
But I've had dinner with the Devil and
I know nice from right.
From Dinner with the Devil, by Big Rude Jake
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ShadowHM,Mar 11 2006, 05:28 PM Wrote:Kinda like "Never trust anything that keeps its brains in the smaller head? :P That policy saved me from a few of the more gormless lines I heard too.
As to the misdirection, perhaps this was yet another case of my desire for brevity causing me to miss clarity. "The shoe is on the other foot" was meant to convey the fact that now men do have to face the consequences of unintended preganacies, in a way that they never did have to for most of the history of humanity. You are the one who chose (once again) to trot out the race issue.
Indeed.
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Not every man has the sort of control that you are used to Shadow... And not every man has iron will. A hot willing naked woman has a way of destroying willpower. Sad but true, men like sex. And lets face it. Many men that wind up in these situations, many, but clearly not all, are not the sharpest knives in the drawer. Round here, from my own observations, most seem to be high school dropouts. Typical poor Southern males. They do not have the reasoning to think ahead to much. For most of them, they want a nice trailer or a decent mill house, a fluffy mullet, a pick up, and maybe, just maybe, a nice Camero or a muscle car that they can play shadetree mechanic on when they aint working. After a hard day working, they crank up Metallica or maybe some Whitesnake, drink beer, or watch tv. They are not that hard to fool sadly. And almost any woman with at least half her wits could with very little effort, get him to spend one night making a bad choice. It's not hard to do. Offer him a six pack of Pabst Blue Ribbon or Natty Ice, a big box of chicken and biscuits from Bojangles (KFC is for the rich folk... Po' folk get their chicken from Bojangles or Churches. Maybe Popeye's if there is a sale) and when he's done and licking his fingers, go sit in his lap and make baby talk in a cutesy coo voice. Really. It's that simple. He is putty in her trashy little hands.
I am fairly sure that this is a constant for men everywhere. You might switch out the beer brands, swap in some Taco Bell or someting, but this is probably the average state of things all over.
Personally, I never allowed my self in to that sort of situation. I had plans for my life. Plans I wasn't about to screw up. Although I do regret not settling down earlier.
This problem exists because there are to many people abandoning themselves to hedonism. No long term sort of thinking.
And uh, personal responsibility.
All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.
"Isn't this where...."
Posts: 6,430
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Joined: Feb 2003
Doc,Mar 11 2006, 05:12 PM Wrote:A whole lot of stuff, ending with . . .
This problem exists because there are to many people abandoning themselves to hedonism. No long term sort of thinking.
And uh, personal responsibility.
[right][snapback]104274[/snapback][/right] You sure have a lot to say about all this for a fella who has no kids.
Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
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Occhidiangela,Mar 11 2006, 11:13 PM Wrote:You sure have a lot to say about all this for a fella who has no kids.
Occhi
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I always made sure to cover my pike before sticking in to strange places and moist environments.
Way back when, I didn't want kids tripping me up. I had plans. That would have wrecked my whole life, screwed up everything I had planned so carefully for. I love kids... Love them to death, but actually having them would have been a bad idea as they would have only tripped me up. I never stayed till breakfast. Women were baggage too, baggage I could not afford to carry. I missed out on a lot. I was far to selfish and wrapped up in my own plans to even think of trying to make some sort of relationship work with a woman. I was entirely to careful to selfishly protect my own interests and make sure that there were no accidents.
Now, my wife can't have kids. :( It hurts.
I reckon if I had really wanted to, I could have stayed till breakfast or allow for some little slip up... There were a few women that wanted me so badly that they were willing to stay in the background and wait for me till I was done... And at least one would have probably done so, had I asked. She did everything her in power to get me to stick around. She wanted kids... And would have been happy at home raising them while I was out doing my own thing. I strung her along with vague promises that I might consider it, only because we were so good at scratching the itch together. For a time, I started to consider it. My will and resolve were softened. She was wearing me down, and I thought about kids, and a house, and little white fences, and the PTA, first day of school, all those things. I wanted it. She wanted it.
In the end, I left town and broke her heart rather than take the chance of meeting her face to face and possibly losing what little bit of willpower I had left. God I was a prick. I found out later she spent a year in a mental hospital pining away for me. She had slashed her arms from wrists to elbow.
It all worked out for the best... For me that is. I met the one woman I couldn't say no to.
No, I don't have kids. Worst mistake I have ever made in my life.
All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.
"Isn't this where...."
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Threads: 0
Joined: Jan 2005
ShadowHM,Mar 11 2006, 12:50 AM Wrote:Quit whining, Doc!
The shoe is on the other foot, after centuries of it being the other way around, and you damn well resent it, right?
Get away from the 'poor men' thing, and start worrying about the children!
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If you're serious, all I have to say is: Sexism is sexism, no matter who the victim.
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Doc,Mar 11 2006, 10:36 PM Wrote:I reckon if I had really wanted to, I could have stayed till breakfast or allow for some little slip up... There were a few women that wanted me so badly that they were willing to stay in the background and wait for me till I was done... And at least one would have probably done so, had I asked. She did everything her in power to get me to stick around. She wanted kids... And would have been happy at home raising them while I was out doing my own thing. I strung her along with vague promises that I might consider it, only because we were so good at scratching the itch together. For a time, I started to consider it. My will and resolve were softened. She was wearing me down, and I thought about kids, and a house, and little white fences, and the PTA, first day of school, all those things. I wanted it. She wanted it.
In the end, I left town and broke her heart rather than take the chance of meeting her face to face and possibly losing what little bit of willpower I had left. God I was a prick. I found out later she spent a year in a mental hospital pining away for me. She had slashed her arms from wrists to elbow.
[right][snapback]104281[/snapback][/right] One trouble with acid is the difficulty its long term effects pose on differentiating the flashbacks from memory.
Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
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Joined: May 2005
Doc,Mar 10 2006, 02:29 PM Wrote:Forgive my bluntness, but round here a nice set of boobs is a leg up in the world. Women catch more breaks in the workplace than men do.
[right][snapback]104171[/snapback][/right] First, apologies for not getting back to this thread for a while, was a busy couple of days. Doc, I'm sure you find your anecdotal evidence extremely compelling, but I need more than anecdotes to convince me. For example, this page suggests that even for waiter/waitress positions (counter to your experience), women don't make as much as men do.
Bottom line, saying that womens' earning potential is better than men because they can commit a particular kind of sex-specific fraud is nonsensical. The FBI crime report suggests that men are more likely to be arrested for fraud than women (54/46 M/F split of arrests by sex), so even there I guess women are "earning" less than men? :)
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03-13-2006, 07:35 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2006, 03:53 PM by Occhidiangela.)
martini,Mar 13 2006, 12:59 PM Wrote:First, apologies for not getting back to this thread for a while, was a busy couple of days. Doc, I'm sure you find your anecdotal evidence extremely compelling, but I need more than anecdotes to convince me. For example, this page suggests that even for waiter/waitress positions (counter to your experience), women don't make as much as men do.
Bottom line, saying that womens' earning potential is better than men because they can commit a particular kind of sex-specific fraud is nonsensical. The FBI crime report suggests that men are more likely to be arrested for fraud than women (54/46 M/F split of arrests by sex), so even there I guess women are "earning" less than men? :)
[right][snapback]104391[/snapback][/right] Reported income versus unreported benifits? Informal versus formal hiring preferences?
Statistics: a method used to spin numbers to present a case. I find it instructive to note that the label on the table of your presented Six year old "data" is "Gender Gap."
Skeptical rogue says: biased reporting, rather blatant. :P
Occhi
Edit: rogue, not roge.
What's with the "I can't spell worth a hoot" disease I caught last week? Did someone decaffeinate me?
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
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Joined: May 2005
03-13-2006, 08:43 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2006, 08:51 PM by martini.)
Occhidiangela,Mar 13 2006, 03:35 PM Wrote:Reported income versus unreported benifits? Informal versus formal hiring preferences?
Statistics: a method used to spin numbers to present a case. I find it instructive to note that the label on the table of your presented Six year old "data" is "Gender Gap."
Skeptical roge says: biased reporting, rather blatant. :P
Occhi
[right][snapback]104395[/snapback][/right] All of those are quite possible. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a more recent study that broke down into job categories... I was curious to see whether Doc was right, and minimum wage earning jobs like waitressing had no Gender Gap (which is a commonly seen term when discussing this subject, and does not, to me, denote the bias that you suggest). I couldn't find any information to support his point of view. If you have any such study on-hand, it would be an interesting read.
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martini,Mar 13 2006, 03:43 PM Wrote:All of those are quite possible. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a more recent study that broke down into job categories... I was curious to see whether Doc was right, and minimum wage earning jobs like waitressing had no Gender Gap (which is a commonly seen term when discussing this subject, and does not, to me, denot the bias that you suggest). I couldn't find any information to support his point of view. If you have any such study on-hand, it would be an interesting read.
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Waitressing has a lower min wage around here. A buck fiddy or two bucks an hour I think. But the ability to make tips is what tilts the scales. Male waiters don't make as much... At least from my experience and observation. A good looking woman with a skirt a bit to short and a few buttons popped can clean house in a diner. Especially a cracker barrel or some greasy spoon pig trough that serves damnyankees.
Now, in other places, could be different. Like, I dunno, New York. You see a lot of snooty nose in the air male waiters there. In tuxes. Frankly, the women up there drive me batty. Talk entirely to fast and through their nose. "Cwup of cwawfwee? Cweam and swoogar?" In a nasaly whine.
I guess it would depend where you did the study. There is still the lingering homophobic undertones around here that only homosexuals are waiters. Which isn't true... But it doesn't stop some of the backwoods hicks from around here snickering and having fun of the poor sissy waiter on the job. Male nursing is still trying to catch on. A lot of men are interested, but an even larger number of men (and women) refuse to have anything to do with a male nurse in a hospital.
And come to think about it, that's a position where a woman can clean house. There is a real shortage of nurses around here. An RN or a CRN or whatever they are called... The pay I think starts at about 15 bucks an hour or so at the hospital. I think. Might be higher. At Greenville Memorial. There is a severe shortage of nurses, which is why men are trying to break in to field. Men do fine in the school, but encounter difficulties in the hospital. Hours are bloody terrible though. Typically 12 hour days, and the hospitals stiff you out of overtime by making you work split shifts where you clock in an out under two accounts. Or so I have heard.
What is it like in other places?
All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.
"Isn't this where...."
Posts: 1,155
Threads: 57
Joined: Oct 2004
DeeBye,Mar 10 2006, 11:44 PM Wrote:This happened to me once. I held a door open for someone, and they made almost word-for-word the remark quoted. I just slammed the door in her face and went on my merry way.
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This happened to me once also. I simply answered "Remember this day well. With your looks and your attitude, this is probably the only time in your life that a man will open a door for you." This was accompanied by a smile.
Feel free to use it any time. Smile optional.
-A
Posts: 1,991
Threads: 103
Joined: May 2003
Ashock,Mar 13 2006, 04:20 PM Wrote:This happened to me once also. I simply answered "Remember this day well. With your looks and your attitude, this is probably the only time in your life that a man will open a door for you." This was accompanied by a smile.
Feel free to use it any time. Smile optional.
-A
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Man, that's harsh.
All alone, or in twos,
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall.
Some hand in hand
And some gathered together in bands.
The bleeding hearts and artists
Make their stand.
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad buggers wall.
"Isn't this where...."
Posts: 957
Threads: 21
Joined: Feb 2003
Doc,Mar 11 2006, 06:42 PM Wrote:Women have reproductive freedom. They can have casual sex and say to hell with the consequences because of abortions.
[right][snapback]104232[/snapback][/right] Men have reproductive freedom. They can have casual sex and say to hell with the consequences because of lawyers and the slow legal system.
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kandrathe,Mar 11 2006, 09:02 PM Wrote:Well, then you might have some of the nightmare sci-fi plots unfold. If law were not based on our moral traditions and ethics we would be very well justified in a utilitarian state to terminate the elderly, criminals, and otherwise unproductive to harvest their organs for repairing the productive members of society. We might encourage baby farming, or women getting pregnant to donate embyonic tissue to aid rich people to live extended life spans.
[right][snapback]104245[/snapback][/right] Utilitarianism is just another form of ethics.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=utilitarianism
"
The ethical theory proposed by Jeremy Bentham and James Mill that all action should be directed toward achieving the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people.
"
The selection of laws will always require some form of judgement to distinguish between two opposing alternatives.
The only alternatives to ethics in lawmaking is lawlessness.
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whyBish,Mar 13 2006, 11:10 PM Wrote:Men have reproductive freedom. They can have casual sex and say to hell with the consequences because of lawyers and the slow legal system.
[right][snapback]104457[/snapback][/right] Cheaper to use condoms, and a lot less drama. :whistling:
Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
Posts: 190
Threads: 48
Joined: Feb 2003
Occhidiangela,Mar 13 2006, 07:55 PM Wrote:Cheaper to use condoms, and a lot less drama.
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ahem.
But babe! You don't love me? If you loved me you wouldn't make me wear a condom....plus you know how junk it makes the experience feel!
"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. At least you'll be a mile away from them and you'll have their shoes." ~?
Stonemaul - Sneakybast, 51 Rogue
Terenas - Sneaksmccoy, 1 Rogue
Sword of Omens, give me sight beyond sight!
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03-14-2006, 07:36 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2006, 07:45 PM by Drasca.)
Doc,Mar 13 2006, 04:03 PM Wrote:There is a real shortage of nurses around here. [right][snapback]104405[/snapback][/right]
There's always going to be more old people. Heck, some of you may even live to be one--if you aren't already :whistling:
Geriatrics, the ever expanding job market.
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Premezilla,Mar 14 2006, 12:09 AM Wrote:ahem.
But babe! You don't love me? If you loved me you wouldn't make me wear a condom....plus you know how junk it makes the experience feel!
[right][snapback]104466[/snapback][/right] "If you loved her, you'd protect her future rather than risk her having a baby before she was ready to raise him/her with you, together.."
Of course, if you don't love her, then are you merely using her? Rhetorical question, answer worth considering before protesting a thin layer of latex. ;)
Occhi
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the Men 'O War!
In War, the outcome is never final. --Carl von Clausewitz--
Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum
John 11:35 - consider why.
In Memory of Pete
Posts: 1,298
Threads: 79
Joined: Feb 2003
Occhidiangela,Mar 14 2006, 02:41 PM Wrote:"If you loved her, you'd protect her future rather than risk her having a baby before she was ready to raise him/her with you, together.."
Of course, if you don't love her, then are you merely using her? Rhetorical question, answer worth considering before protesting a thin layer of latex. ;)
Occhi
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Correction: Non-rhetorical question to ask, answer worth carefully considering before you let him proceed without that thin layer of latex. ;)
And you may call it righteousness
When civility survives,
But I've had dinner with the Devil and
I know nice from right.
From Dinner with the Devil, by Big Rude Jake
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