Hunters traps are now visible in 1.10

[Raven Vale]

Just been reading this topic about the traps

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.a...r&T=1068089&P=1

And the eyebrow thing is just plain ridiculous with the amount of other stuff that needs looking at . This will be like the cat mounts getting a bedroll . Not to mention worse clipping than eyebrows .

http://forums-en.wow-europe.com/thread.asp...mp=1#post882890

[Raelynn]

Two blue posts concerning each of these topics:
Concerning Traps
Concerning Eyebrows

[Mavfin]

Two blue posts concerning each of these topics:
Concerning Traps
Concerning Eyebrows
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The big problem with traps isn't the invisibility of them, it's the magic FD/trap in combat addon/macro that hunters use...you can be in melee with a hunter, never see or hear FD, and magically a trap appears under you without you moving. That's broken. Simple as that. Invisibility of traps isn't a problem, as long as hunters can't lay them *in combat* like they do all the time.

(i.e. if I charge a hunter and get trapped by the trap between his feet, my fault, perfectly legit. If I get out of that trap and get to melee range on him again, only to get trapped again [w/o leaving combat on my part at all] that's just wrong)

[Kevin]

The big problem with traps isn't the invisibility of them, it's the magic FD/trap in combat addon/macro that hunters use...you can be in melee with a hunter, never see or hear FD, and magically a trap appears under you without you moving.  That's broken.  Simple as that.  Invisibility of traps isn't a problem, as long as hunters can't lay them *in combat* like they do all the time.

(i.e. if I charge a hunter and get trapped by the trap between his feet, my fault, perfectly legit.  If I get out of that trap and get to melee range on him again, only to get trapped again [w/o leaving combat on my part at all] that's just wrong)
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It doesn't take a macro to do this either, put the trap key and FD key right next to each other, call the pet back and hit 1-2 (or whatever the keybindings are) right in order and you can manually do the same thing, the game won't even play the FD sound on your system you stay standing all the time. It's is broken and it's solved easily by making FD kick in a cooldown on the use of traps or maybe just the universal cooldown. Sure this makes using it for dropping aggro in PvE a little tougher but oh well. You feigned death I would think if it was convincing you would need a little time to get back in order after you got back up.

The other option is to make placing a trap a short channel, like .5 seconds. I always thought they should be like this anyway since you can't drop them in combat.

[Concillian]

(i.e. if I charge a hunter and get trapped by the trap between his feet, my fault, perfectly legit.  If I get out of that trap and get to melee range on him again, only to get trapped again [w/o leaving combat on my part at all] that's just wrong)
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I don't even find that a problem. I am trapped and out of combat, I can see where he puts the next trap and can avoid it. In short, I have a chance, so feel it's fair.

What I find a problem, is when I'm sitting face to face swinging at the hunter, he flops down between swings and before I can hit tab then 1, I'm already frozen. No chance to avoid the trap, because the freeze radius is ~melee radius, it was laid at my feet, so I can't avoid it in any way.

The other issue is repeated freezing isn't diminishing, but I think that was in the patch notes, or at least it's on the known issues page in the bug-fix forum.

[Lissa]

The other issue is repeated freezing isn't diminishing, but I think that was in the patch notes, or at least it's on the known issues page in the bug-fix forum.
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The reason freezing isn't diminishing is because the cooldown is longer than the effect time, even with talents. This is why a Paladin's stun is never diminished, it last 6 seconds, but takes 1 minute before you can use it again. Any time the cooldown is longer than the effect time, there is no diminishing returns from that type of power and I wish it was different (being stunlocked by two rogues and never being able to do a thing is downright annoying).

[Concillian]

The reason freezing isn't diminishing is because the cooldown is longer than the effect time, even with talents. 
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That's not true.

Concussion Blow has it's return diminished by the wimpy stun from charge. Kidney Shot has it's return diminished by Cheap Shot. Those are two counter examples that I have extensive personal experience with.

[Ruvanal]

The other option is to make placing a trap a short channel, like .5 seconds.  I always thought they should be like this anyway since you can't drop them in combat.
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I always felt that the traps should be able to be set anytime including in combat. BUT that the traps should all be on the same cooldown of about 2 to 3 minutes. This would be enough to allow them to used about once per normal non-instance type of combat without a problem. If a fight manages to last longer, it seems better to me that the hunter should be able to lay another trap, but not have to resort to such odd type of mechanism to allow it to be done (which to many players is what they are seeing as being abused right now).

[Kevin]

I always felt that the traps should be able to be set anytime including in combat. BUT that the traps should all be on the same cooldown of about 2 to 3 minutes.  This would be enough to allow them to used about once per normal non-instance type of combat without a problem.  If a fight manages to last longer, it seems better to me that the hunter should be able to lay another trap, but not have to resort to such odd type of mechanism to allow it to be done (which to many players is what they are seeing as being abused right now).
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That works for me too. :) That would make traps in general more useful becuase I don't want to use my AoE trap at the start. I want it after the warrior has locked down the 4 mobs. :)

There are several solutions to the problem and it is a problem.

[Artega]

The big problem with traps isn't the invisibility of them, it's the magic FD/trap in combat addon/macro that hunters use...you can be in melee with a hunter, never see or hear FD, and magically a trap appears under you without you moving.  That's broken.  Simple as that.  Invisibility of traps isn't a problem, as long as hunters can't lay them *in combat* like they do all the time.

(i.e. if I charge a hunter and get trapped by the trap between his feet, my fault, perfectly legit.  If I get out of that trap and get to melee range on him again, only to get trapped again [w/o leaving combat on my part at all] that's just wrong)
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Except the hunter will make his pet look at you and you won't be able to Charge, and instead you get to either walk to him with your shield up and in Defensive Stance or blow Intercept way too early.

[Watto44]

What I find a problem, is when I'm sitting face to face swinging at the hunter, he flops down between swings and before I can hit tab then 1, I'm already frozen.  No chance to avoid the trap, because the freeze radius is ~melee radius, it was laid at my feet, so I can't avoid it in any way.
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I'm hoping that you won't loose your target any more when a hunter feigns. According to the patch notes you won't loose your target when feared etc, so we can always hope that feign is on that list. Also, the changes to StopSpellCasting() should have some effect on this, although probably not much. :)

On a similar note, flare now leaves a visible mark on the ground now. Yay!

[Artega]

That's not true.

Concussion Blow has it's return diminished by the wimpy stun from charge.  Kidney Shot has it's return diminished by Cheap Shot.  Those are two counter examples that I have extensive personal experience with.
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There's a reason for that, too. Paladins have a single stun - Hammer of Justice (and I guess you could count Repentence for Retribution specs, though it's not a stun.) Hunters have no stuns.

Warriors have two stuns right off the bat (Charge and Intercept), get a third if they go deep into Protection (Concussion Blow), and get a fourth if they're Tauren and Protection (War Stomp.) If their stuns didn't share a timer, they'd be just as bad as Rogues with stunlocking.

[Sir_Die_alot]

There's a reason for that, too.  Paladins have a single stun - Hammer of Justice (and I guess you could count Repentence for Retribution specs, though it's not a stun.)  Hunters have no stuns.

Warriors have two stuns right off the bat (Charge and Intercept), get a third if they go deep into Protection (Concussion Blow), and get a fourth if they're Tauren and Protection (War Stomp.)  If their stuns didn't share a timer, they'd be just as bad as Rogues with stunlocking.
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Correction: they have a 5th with talents. Although 1 is only a 40% proc chance. :)

Personally the 2 characters I play right now are a warrior and a hunter and I am not unhappy with how the 2 work. The only imbalance I've seen in traps is vs warriors and when the warriors (myself included) use the same timing and skill it takes to stick someone in a trap the fight outcome is always in doubt. Rend breaks every attempt at a melee trap I ever make, and if I get someone to step into a trap from a distance IMO, that's their own mistake. Fighting a hunter means dodging his trap and if you wach him move you should know right where it is.

If you adjust how traps work you need to increase intercept cooldown... but then you need to change blink cooldown... and priest fear... It's throwing a wrench into things that will take Blizz about 3 or 4 patches to fix. If they are too easy to spam that's a simple mana issue. As for making them visible I think this is just silly. It's hard enough to get someone who knows what they are doing into a trap. I'd rather see them made stealth like rogues, if you're careful and facing the right direction you will see them but otherwise invisible. I mean, these are suppose to be traps not glowing beacons that say "DO NOT STEP HERE".

[Kevin]

Correction: they have a 5th with talents. Although 1 is only a 40% proc chance. :)
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You still both missed one. So if you did a really odd build you could have charge, intercept, conc blow, revenge, mace spec, and if tauren war stomp.

I'm now waiting for someone to point out yet another stun I missed. :)

[Lissa]

You still both missed one.  So if you did a really odd build you could have charge, intercept, conc blow, revenge, mace spec, and if tauren war stomp.

I'm now waiting for someone to point out yet another stun I missed.  :)
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If you're going to go with Mace, then Earthshaker/Unstoppable Force is your 7th... ;)

[Kevin]

If you're going to go with Mace, then Earthshaker/Unstoppable Force is your 7th...  ;)
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Fair enough in my book if we are counting warstomp then TuF/ES are both valid to count too.

[Zarathustra]

Bombs, glorious bombs.

[Kevin]

Bombs, glorious bombs.
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That's technically a disorient.

Of course Artega was initially refering to controlled stuns and all the other stuns mentioned after are proc stuns. But who am I to point out a technicality like that? ;)

[Mavfin]

Bombs, glorious bombs.
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ES/TUF/bombs are not strictly warrior stuns, though. Any engineer can use bombs, and pally/shaman/druid can use ES or TUF.

[Quark]

Except the hunter will make his pet look at you and you won't be able to Charge, and instead you get to either walk to him with your shield up and in Defensive Stance or blow Intercept way too early.
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Along a similar thought, the bar-none most annoying thing I ever had happen to me in PvP was getting ressed near a warlock in AB.

Before I can even hit the stealth button upon res, the Succubus was already casting Seduce and I was in combat. Got out of Seduce (by virtue of a glorious Shadow Bolt then some DoTs), burned some timers to stand a chance in the fight ... then got Death Coiled.