I feel guilty advertising my mod here

[Brother Laz]

Median 2006 1.15 is out, at Mods by Laz.

So what's it about?

- New skill tree: 45 new learnable skills, 9 'professions', 35 class-specific innates (5 per class).
- Major changes to monster AI and behaviour: from hammer-throwing clerics to exploding quill rats.
- New item system, using six 'tiers' of item quality instead of the usual normal/exceptional/elite.
- New magic item stats, uniques, sets, rune stats, runewords, gem stats, etc, of course.
- Much harder than classic LoD, but in a more 'fair' way, through tricky AI instead of one-hit kills.

(*btw, you'll need to pay attention to defense)



Gamespy's hosted sites are going up and down due to the system maintenance that was supposed to be finished two days ago, so here are some alternate links:

Download at Fileplanet
Download at volf.biz
Phrozen Keep Mods by Laz forum
Phrozen Keep screenshots

[Hammerskjold]

Some interesting things in there. I'm not that far in it yet, just a few test characters, and one c-lvl 12 amazon. So far it has elements that reminds me of the better parts of Diablo 1. Hopefully as it progress it won't be too itemcentric as D2.

But from what I've seen so far anyway, I'd definitely say job well done. (Though there is still the occasional respawn in Den of Evil, unless that was an intentional part of Prince Albrecht 's power.)

[Chaostheory]

err... What are the new runewords? I couldn't find recipes for them and I would not like to spend dozens of hourse trying every possibility :blink:

EDIT: doh, I found it 10 seconds later after sending this post... Where is that delete button now? :wub:

EDIT2: What is "jewelword"?

[Hammerskjold]

First of all, I have to say again good job on what is obviously a labour of love. There's some things in your work that is of such quality, it makes me wish I can send you back in time to work with bliz when they were originally making D2 and LoD.



>Much harder than classic LoD, but in a more 'fair' way, through tricky AI instead of one-hit kills.

It's definitely much harder comparatively, I'd say you definitely succeded if you wanted to get away from the usual LoD way of AoE slaughterfests. It's more reminiscent of D1 in the way you don't want to wake up too many monsters at one time.

I do however, slightly disagree on the lack of one hit kills. It might just be a case of semantics, but getting swarmed because of a case of bad luck in monster death respawning, produces the same result for me. Now I'm not complaining too much, since in D1 there are similar cases where getting stunlocked pretty much left you dead.

I've browsed a bit of the Median forum, and I did read the thread about the possibility of 'cuddly' alternate version to ease some new players in etc. Personally I think I still might try some more with my level 13 Amazon who seems to be getting a lot of bad luck to make it to Dark Wood passage, on Players-1 Normal even.

To be clear I definitely don't want my chars to suddenly pwnz0rr all of Normal with barely a mouse click or two, but I hope reaching the tree of Inifus won't be my crowning achievement before I decide it's simply too frustrating for my taste. Because again, there's some really great things in this mod of yours that makes LoD fresh and fun.

In any case, thanks for the mod.

[Brother Laz]

So far it has elements that reminds me of the better parts of Diablo 1.  Hopefully as it progress it won't be too itemcentric as D2.

No, it won't. ;) You can get good gear easily from shops or monster drops. There are some gosu items, but you don't need them nearly as much as you do in classic LoD.

(Though there is still the occasional respawn in Den of Evil, unless that was an intentional part of Prince Albrecht 's power.)

No, not intended. :( But the respawns are localised, so you won't have to run back and forth three times through the DoE until you've located all monsters, which was the reason there were (supposed to be) no respawns in the Den in the first place.

......

err... What are the new runewords? I couldn't find recipes for them and I would not like to spend dozens of hourse trying every possibility

I see you've already found them, you may want to take a look at M2006_cube.rtf too.

One minor caveat: the recipes in M2006_cube.rtf for the Witch profession are wrong; they do produce results, but often not the advertised ones. An updated copy of the file will be uploaded to my website soon.

EDIT2: What is "jewelword"?

There are two different things called 'jewelword'. The 'rune'word recipes at the bottom of M2006_runewords.rtf contain jewels and gems, and are called jewelwords. Additionally, socketing only jewels in a socketed item results in a hidden jewelword bonus.

......

I do however, slightly disagree on the lack of one hit kills. It might just be a case of semantics, but getting swarmed because of a case of bad luck in monster death respawning, produces the same result for me. Now I'm not complaining too much, since in D1 there are similar cases where getting stunlocked pretty much left you dead.

You need some crowd control. Your zon's innate Stormtouch knocks back and stuns everyone around you. The 15 second timer is harsh, but it's usually just what you need to break out of a crowd. Don't neglect the stopping power of Blindside either.

I've browsed a bit of the Median forum, and I did read the thread about the possibility of 'cuddly' alternate version to ease some new players in etc.

Yep, and it will be released Soon™. ;)

Personally I think I still might try some more with my level 13 Amazon who seems to be getting a lot of bad luck to make it to Dark Wood passage, on Players-1 Normal even.

The UGP is harsh for all characters, especially for amazons (and sorcs) due to the lack of a rapid healing innate or long duration crowd control.

To be clear I definitely don't want my chars to suddenly pwnz0rr all of Normal with barely a mouse click or two, but I hope reaching the tree of Inifus won't be my crowning achievement before I decide it's simply too frustrating for my taste.

Patience... Cuddly Mode is coming. ;)

[SwissMercenary]

I personally did not notice anything special about the UGP. Stony Field, and that bat boss in the Dark Wood was a real pain. Same deal for the skeleton mages, and the new Afflicted.

I'm running a melee sorc in Act 2, level 20, and is it just me, or do I really need to constantly upgrade my weapon to keep up? I've been able to get by with an ethereal 'Dawn' Great Axe, but it recently broke. :(

For my armours, I use the secret jewel word ones for every slot. I personally think that they are a little overpowering at this stage of the game, considering that I'm getting +25 to all stats from them.

I'll also chalk up another one for the 'hate the dying curse'. I'm getting better at avoiding it as I go, but there's just some situations that I can't figure out.

Say, the one on Catacombs level 4. I enter the level, there's a champion dark rogue meleer pack, and some of their friends on me, about a dozen dark rogue archers, and a shaman + minions. I run around to off the shaman, then run circles to dodge arrows, waiting for Pagan Heart to recharge. I think I off two of the dark rogues. Next thing that happens, two shaman packs spawn, I think I kill a fallen, and the 'death curse' procs. Bam. Dead. Just like that. I've personally preferred the old stair traps, myself, compared to what is thrown at me here.

And I swear, you are an evil, evil bastard for that Kermit boss in the Halls of the Dead. :wacko:

[Brother Laz]

As promised, 1.16 is now online and it makes the mod indeed a lot easier for beginners. You can now retrieve the Inifuss scroll without a fight for your life. Enjoy!

(ps: NM and Hell make up for it)
(ps2: dying curse nerfed from +300% dmg to +100%)

(Edit: you'll get a lot better at frog prince killing in Act 3-5 :D )

[SwissMercenary]

As promised, 1.16 is now online and it makes the mod indeed a lot easier for beginners.

Actually, most of those changes were not in the areas I had problems. Skeleton mages were annoying, but magic missle took care of them. I also got good enough at playing the happy feet game against those damn shamen.

(ps2: dying curse nerfed from +300% dmg to +100%)

300%? :blink: :o That's what it was? 4% chance per hell kill? :wacko:

I mean, ah, thank you, thank you, we are not worthy!

(Edit: you'll get a lot better at frog prince killing in Act 3-5 :D )

Joy of joys.

Weakened secret jewel words

You did? I don't see any change. Still +5 to all stats and -10% req.

Buff to Pagan Rites

I'm not sure if the increase in life healed per corpse will make 'sorcs non-useless'. I mean, with a few points in Star Power, you got what, a 46% heal? Good enough most of the time. 76% is overkill (For my character, at least).

I haven't tried out the mana leeching spell, yet.

What's the deal with the sorc 'useless' part? I've found hex to be a decent spell so far (Nowhere near in approaching the sheer power of vampiric icon + ice trap (In normal), but I doubt many things do).

[Brother Laz]

Meh. 1.16 was rushed a tad too much and has some bugs. 1.17 coming soon. :(

Actually, most of those changes were not in the areas I had problems.

Yeah, um... so what are those areas?

300%?  :blink: :o That's what it was? 4% chance per hell kill?  :wacko:

Cowards. ;)

You did? I don't see any change. Still +5 to all stats and -10% req.

No, the -reqs was nerfed on the jewelwords with more jewels. ;)

(Edit: stat bonuses nerfed in 1.17, coming soon)

What's the deal with the sorc 'useless' part? I've found hex to be a decent spell so far (Nowhere near in approaching the sheer power of vampiric icon + ice trap (In normal), but I doubt many things do).

Which is the whole problem: it doesn't approach the overpoweredness of VI + RoI. ;)

[SwissMercenary]

Meh. 1.16 was rushed a tad too much and has some bugs. 1.17 coming soon. :(
Yeah, um... so what are those areas?

Ah, let me think. Death curse, and those damned afflicted/tainted type nasties, I believe. Although I suppose that I just don't have enough practice fighting them. (Change to the Tree of Infuss boss greatly appreciated, though!)

I think that the 'normalisation' of damage may have a greater impact then I first thought. I think I need to run more characters through A1 Normal.

Cowards. ;)

'This day, some of us will be heroes. The rest will walk away on two legs.' :ph34r:

No, the -reqs was nerfed on the jewelwords with more jewels. ;)

Ah, so the simple jewelword is still pretty much the way to get decent gear early on. (Well, unless I'm missing something.)

(Edit: stat bonuses nerfed in 1.17, coming soon)

Oh. I thought it wouldn't last.

Which is the whole problem: it doesn't approach the overpoweredness of VI + RoI. ;)
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Yeah, but does anything? :unsure:

Really appreciate your work. The crap to signal ratio that you put up with on PHK is well, anything but disturbing. Idiots.

Edit: Come to think of it, invisible monsters caused maybe almost half my deaths, courtesy of their lovely immunity to Hex. Apparations, with their stun, are the worst - but I'm assuming that is completely intentional/unavoidable. The hex immunity, not the stun.

Also, what's the deal with the new 10 minute resistance potions? With that long a duration, you might as well give characters a permanent 50% resist to fire/coldghtning when they rescue Cain - the 225 gold price tag becomes a non-issue at that point. I understand the intent, but I'm not sure if this is the best way to do it. Maybe make them last 1 minute, rather then the 'fire and forget'?

Also, very nice 'teleport-on-hit' ability you gave to the Infidel type monsters. Made for a few exteremly hairy fights in the palace. I don't know what part of it was caused by your damage rebalancing and attack rating reduction did, but I know that I could not have surived that fight in 1.15. And I probably didn't deserve to, either. (Last Stand is a great attack, there.)

I had an idea in regards to the new Samhain and Mana Coil - is it possible to make a spell cost a % of your mana bar? If so, then slapping a significant price tag on Samhain (50%?), would make Mana Coil, well, more useful?

[Hammerskjold]

I haven't had too much time with 1.16, since I downloaded it last night and played around for about 4 hours or so. But here's what works for me at least.

- Monster speed. Previously it wasn't uncommon for me to get waypoint \stair trap ambushed (especially in outdoor WPs). I wasn't running around challenging a big mob, but a couple of steps off the WP, an unlucky roll with respawn, add a dying curse, then it became a game of how fast I can reach the Esc key. Right now it's more manageable for Normal age chars and newb players imo.

- Shaman firewall. Some people might like it as a challenge etc, but again at that early level even with ShadowForm and 75% fire resist, it was edging close from challenging to 'this is getting a bit much'. Right now seems more balanced to my nublar self.

Overall seems to be still challenging, but the frustration factor is reduced. Other people's miles will vary. Looking forward to 1.17.

[Brother Laz]

And this is why you shouldn't be in a hurry to release a patch. 1.16 was flawed, and the 'fix' 1.17 was totally screwed. You can download 1.18 now, and it's 1/ much easier than 1.15 in Normal; 2/ good. ;)

Highlights:

- Dying curse now really nerfed;
- Nerfs to monsters that were somehow skipped in the 1.16 'rust storm'; (*)
- Shadowpriest (vampire) types are now actually interesting;
- Boss monsters now finally have the correct resistances;
- Slight increase to monster attack rating in Normal (was too low).
- Colour coding of runes, gems and elixirs.

(*) Fingermages, Baal...

......

Ah, let me think. Death curse, and those damned afflicted/tainted type nasties, I believe.

Dying curse fixed now (I had Andariel turn red and survived it!). The annoying cold spammers had their damage slightly reduced, too.

Although I suppose that I just don't have enough practice fighting them. (Change to the Tree of Infuss boss greatly appreciated, though!)

Yep, that's one overlevelled sucker. What you can do is use some physical area attack (rogue merc...) and watch them all teleport away, then grab the scroll. ;)

Ah, so the simple jewelword is still pretty much the way to get decent gear early on. (Well, unless I'm missing something.)

'Dawn' and 'Dusk' were so popular that I added a pile of new, very low level runewords in the new patch.

'Rebel' (El-El, armor), 'Pax Mystica' (Eld-Tir, staves), 'Rainbow' (El-Tir, belts), 'Elegance' (Tir-Eld, boots) and 'Ghoul' (Tir-Nef, weapons) are low level runewords suitable for baby characters, particularly the first one.

Oh. I thought it wouldn't last.

As Durach once said, I nerf everything until there is nothing left. Yeah, I banned him.

Really appreciate your work. The crap to signal ratio that you put up with on PHK is well, anything but disturbing. Idiots.

Yep, and to top it off, half of my downloads are redirects from B.net hacking sites. Grrmbl.

Edit: Come to think of it, invisible monsters caused maybe almost half my deaths, courtesy of their lovely immunity to Hex.

Actually, this is a semi-bug - I never quite found out why it happens, but it doesn't explode your computer so I'm permitting it to stay.

Also, what's the deal with the new 10 minute resistance potions? With that long a duration, you might as well give characters a permanent 50% resist to fire/coldghtning when they rescue Cain - the 225 gold price tag becomes a non-issue at that point.

They are already gone in the patch, because I made the same reasoning. ;) As I told you, 1.16 was rushed. :( But take a look at the new runewords sometime...

Also, very nice 'teleport-on-hit' ability you gave to the Infidel type monsters. Made for a few exteremly hairy fights in the palace.

...Act 5 ice caves... ;)

I don't know what part of it was caused by your damage rebalancing and attack rating reduction did, but I know that I could not have surived that fight in 1.15. And I probably didn't deserve to, either. (Last Stand is a great attack, there.)

Bad news first: the attack rating was too low, and was increased again. It is still half of what it used to be in 1.15, which should mean about 25-30% chance to be hit by melee monsters. It's a lot better than the hopeless 60-70% in 1.15, but in 1.16 it was like 10% in many areas.

I had an idea in regards to the new Samhain and Mana Coil - is it possible to make a spell cost a % of your mana bar?

No. The problem with Mana Coil is everyone maxed energy. The diminishing returns should alleviate this problem a bit (72 mana spells are still hard to cast at 100 energy!), but the greatly increased feedback damage should make it a decent instant death spell, provided you manage to drain your mana enough. We'll see.

......

- Monster speed. Previously it wasn't uncommon for me to get waypoint \stair trap ambushed (especially in outdoor WPs).

Yep, many monsters are slower now, and only very few of them are faster. :)

- Shaman firewall. Some people might like it as a challenge etc, but again at that early level even with ShadowForm and 75% fire resist, it was edging close from challenging to 'this is getting a bit much'.

Heh, firewall was THE #1 complaint about Act 1. ;)

Overall seems to be still challenging, but the frustration factor is reduced. Other people's miles will vary. Looking forward to 1.17.

So sorry for the attack rating boost. ;) Some figures:

Level 1: 16 (1.15: 32)
Level 5: 36 (1.15: 77)
Level 10: 62 (1.15: 168)
Level 25: 174 (1.15: 318)
Level 40: 334 (1.15: 458)

Shouldn't be too hard to keep your chance to be hit low enough. ;)

[Brother Laz]

Damn!

First release of 1.18 was corrupted. If you already downloaded it, download it again. :( The mirrors are currently being updated, but this one already works:

Fixed 1.18

[SwissMercenary]

And this is why you shouldn't be in a hurry to release a patch. 1.16 was flawed, and the 'fix' 1.17 was totally screwed. You can download 1.18 now, and it's 1/ much easier than 1.15 in Normal; 2/ good. ;)

Highlights:

- Dying curse now really nerfed;

Bah, it was 'fine' at 100%.

- Slight increase to monster attack rating in Normal (was too low).

I worked out that *that* was the reason for my survival against 'impossible' odds, there.

Dying curse fixed now (I had Andariel turn red and survived it!). The annoying cold spammers had their damage slightly reduced, too.

Felt like enough of a difference.

Although I suppose that I just don't have enough practice fighting them. (Change to the Tree of Infuss boss greatly appreciated, though!)

Yep, that's one overlevelled sucker. What you can do is use some physical area attack (rogue merc...) and watch them all teleport away, then grab the scroll. ;)

I just magic missle/storm crows them out of range.

Ah, so the simple jewelword is still pretty much the way to get decent gear early on. (Well, unless I'm missing something.)

'Dawn' and 'Dusk' were so popular that I added a pile of new, very low level runewords in the new patch.

'Rebel' (El-El, armor), 'Pax Mystica' (Eld-Tir, staves), 'Rainbow' (El-Tir, belts), 'Elegance' (Tir-Eld, boots) and 'Ghoul' (Tir-Nef, weapons) are low level runewords suitable for baby characters, particularly the first one.

The problem is, I'm in Act 3, and haven't even *seen* a two socket body armour, let alone boots, and belts yet. Well, I've found a 3-socket Leather Armour (2), but that doesn't fit the bill. The countess dropped Ort for me, and I've been wanting to make Ort-Eld since, well, forever. You might want to look at that.

Edit: Come to think of it, invisible monsters caused maybe almost half my deaths, courtesy of their lovely immunity to Hex.

Actually, this is a semi-bug - I never quite found out why it happens, but it doesn't explode your computer so I'm permitting it to stay.

I was assuming that it was so that you couldn't spot them by the location of the curse/aura icon.

I don't know what part of it was caused by your damage rebalancing and attack rating reduction did, but I know that I could not have surived that fight in 1.15. And I probably didn't deserve to, either. (Last Stand is a great attack, there.)

Bad news first: the attack rating was too low, and was increased again. It is still half of what it used to be in 1.15, which should mean about 25-30% chance to be hit by melee monsters. It's a lot better than the hopeless 60-70% in 1.15, but in 1.16 it was like 10% in many areas.

Appreciated. After the patch, the rest of Act 2 - palace and onward was... Trivial would be a good word for it. At least now I can Retaliate with some constency

I had an idea in regards to the new Samhain and Mana Coil - is it possible to make a spell cost a % of your mana bar?

No. The problem with Mana Coil is everyone maxed energy. The diminishing returns should alleviate this problem a bit (72 mana spells are still hard to cast at 100 energy!), but the greatly increased feedback damage should make it a decent instant death spell, provided you manage to drain your mana enough. We'll see.

Well, yes, I understand the source of the problem - when you have crazy regen, you have no mana to leech back, really. I'm not past Act 3 Normal, so it was just a thought.

- Shaman firewall. Some people might like it as a challenge etc, but again at that early level even with ShadowForm and 75% fire resist, it was edging close from challenging to 'this is getting a bit much'.

Heh, firewall was THE #1 complaint about Act 1. ;)

I actually think that was a bit of an overnerf. The firewall only got bad if you, well, let the shaman stack 6 of them under you.

So sorry for the attack rating boost. ;) Some figures:

Level 1: 16 (1.15: 32)
Level 5: 36 (1.15: 77)
Level 10: 62 (1.15: 168)
Level 25: 174 (1.15: 318)
Level 40: 334 (1.15: 458)

Shouldn't be too hard to keep your chance to be hit low enough. ;)
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The AR boost was in my mind, a very good thing.

[Brother Laz]

Bah, it was 'fine' at 100%.

Well, it was listed under 'bugs' for a reason, and that reason was that it was somehow back at +300% in 1.16. ;) I blame the computer mice.

Felt like enough of a difference.

Good. :)

The problem is, I'm in Act 3, and haven't even *seen* a two socket body armour, let alone boots, and belts yet.

Boots and belts is understandable - they can only have 2 sockets at tier 2 and above. As for the armor, I blame bad luck.

The countess dropped Ort for me, and I've been wanting to make Ort-Eld since, well, forever. You might want to look at that.

If there is really a bias towards low sockets, it's Blizzard's fault. There is an equal chance to get sockets vs no sockets, and if the item has sockets, all numbers of sockets are equally likely.

Also, hang on to that 3-socketed armor. It is only a short distance to Tal-El-Thul and its large +stats and magic find bonuses.

Appreciated. After the patch, the rest of Act 2 - palace and onward was... Trivial would be a good word for it. At least now I can Retaliate with some constency

Remember, the players want trivial. If they can't plough through Normal with ease, they quit. I may have gone overboard in 1.16, but attack rating is slightly increased again in 1.18. It depends on the monster type, though.

Well, yes, I understand the source of the problem - when you have crazy regen, you have no mana to leech back, really.

Death Coil is much more useful because you don't regenerate life. I may decrease mana regen in a future patch, though.

I actually think that was a bit of an overnerf. The firewall only got bad if you, well, let the shaman stack 6 of them under you.

Too many players did let the shaman stack 6 of them, then threw a fit and stomped off.

The AR boost was in my mind, a very good thing.

Warning, attack ratings in NM and Hell are still as high as ever. Act 1 NM could be quite a shock. ;)

[Hammerskjold]

>Remember, the players want trivial. If they can't plough through Normal with ease, they quit.

Probably, though no one can expect players who are new to the mod to instantly know and do what the vets know and do. It would be like throwing someone new to D2 straight into Baal and expecting them to know what to do right off the bat. It's not a case of watering down your work or talking down to players, but there's gotta be some starting area that newbies can learn on. And so far I think you're on the right track.

> Too many players did let the shaman stack 6 of them, then threw a fit and stomped off.

I did remember my rogue merc got roasted quite a bit, and at that level the price for resurrection wasn't trivial. So to me it wasn't just a problem for the player characters. (Although I only got killed directly twice due to firewall, in a stair ambush where there wasn't much room to manouvre. But I chalked that one up to mostly bad luck.)

The new runewords looks pretty interesting. The change to Stormtouch is a good one I think.

[SwissMercenary]

I honestly never bothered with the mercs, after my first few racked up several deaths each. Their AI is... Just bleh.

As for the three-socket armour, it's got pathetic defense (110?). Its collecting dust in my stash, either way.

I've found quite a few tier 2 belts, but all of them had one socket at the most. I can't say it looks like a 50/50 split.

[Brother Laz]

I did remember my rogue merc got roasted quite a bit, and at that level the price for resurrection wasn't trivial.  So to me it wasn't just a problem for the player characters.

Not much can be done about the AI, since monster AIs don't work on them.

The change to Stormtouch is a good one I think.

The reduced timer? Not really worth getting all cheery over, all it does is make it useful. ;)

......

I've found quite a few tier 2 belts, but all of them had one socket at the most. I can't say it looks like a 50/50 split.

Chalk it up to Blizzard's famously broken random number generator then. :(

[SwissMercenary]

Since this is of import to you Laz, I've just shown up to say that the reason for the end in my feedback, and use of your wonderful mod, was due to Diablo 2 burnout. Median was wickedly good, in the sense that it managed to pull me back into the game, if for a week, but I think that nothing short of magic will ever get me to stay for more.

Great stuff, nevertheless.

[Zingydex]

Normally I'm leery of mods that propose to raise the bar difficulty-wise in an already-difficult game. Out of sheer curiosity I tried this one, and it was a fairly pleasant surprise.

Only one complaint thus far - the background for the menus and subscreens has got to go. The design is nice, but the mostly-white color scheme is really hard on the eyes and makes it tough to read the end results of the game's number-crunching.