Death For Child Molesters?

[Doc]

I will disagree with a nod and a wink, Ghostiger.  The death penalty works just fine down here in Texas.  We have a death penalty, and we use it!. (Ron White likes to use that as a punchline.)

South Carolina has it, but seems reluctant to use it.  The Susan Smith case seems an opportunity lost.  Texas' recent failure to bury the lady who killed her five kids, Andrea Yates, lends some weight to your point, however.  Her attorney's "The Devil Made Me Do It" defense should have been laughed out of court.  As Dick Deadeye once opined:"My, it's a queer world."  (Gilbert and Sullivan reference, Pinafore)

60 people were executed in America last year.  59 in 2004.  (www.deathpenaltyinfo.org and DOJ web site)

Over 16,000 were murdered. (FBI) 

Roughly 42,000 died in traffic accidents, 2004, the 2005 stats are apparently still in work. (DoT) About 17,000 of those to impaired drivers, alcohol.

Given those orders of magnitude, the death penalty is hardly the issue when it comes to "death at the hands of someone else."

One could suggest that you are safer on death row than on the open road, however, the numbers don't support that due to the relatively small death row population.

Occhi
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Pump those numbers up a bit and start executing serial rapists.

[jahcs]

I think youre misunderstanding his point - namely because your a Canuk..
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What the heck does Nationality have to do with reading comprehension skills?

Shadow is not in favor of the death penalty, for any reason. Doc is. Therefore heated debate ensues.

[Occhidiangela]

What the heck does Nationality have to do with reading comprehension skills?

Shadow is not in favor of the death penalty, for any reason.  Doc is.  Therefore heated debate ensues.
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*furiously jots down note to self:*

"Avoid disparaging the reading comprehension prowess of Canadians, Canucks, and others from The Great White North!."

Thanks.  :D  We can all learn from others' mistakes.

Occhi
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PS: Grr, preview is my friend.

PPS: Does Ghostiger know that Shadow is a Battle Axe? :blink: Danger, Will Robinson! :shuriken:

[jahcs]

*furiously jots down notes*

Thanks.  :D

Occhi
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Heh, a lot can be said in the time it takes for me to hit the reply and post buttons (especially when I'm at work :shuriken: )

[Occhidiangela]

EVIL DOUBLE POST, RUBE ATTACK!!!! :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

[Occhidiangela]

Pump those numbers up a bit and start executing serial rapists.
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What you do with your Cheerios is your own business, under the rubric of consenting odd oats.

*ducks*

Occhi

[Doc]

You know, I am not sure if the gas chamber and things like that are worth it. Or lethal injection. I mean, they are, but I wonder if we are perhaps missing out on a chance to actually punish somebody.

Certain people... Mass murderers, serial rapists, you know, people that simply can not be rehabilitated, should be locked in a small cell. And from that point out, no human contact what so ever. Flavourless but nutritious gruel served through a dispenser in the wall for when they get hungry, and water, neither hot nor cold. No books, nothing to do, nothing to read, nothing at all. Just themselves, and four walls, and whatever voices they have in their head. With no distractions, and no escape, and no human contact, they would wind up facing themselves sooner or later.

The only feature of note would be a button in their cell labled "escape." Pressing this would kill them.

Sooner or later, I bet most of them, faced with nothing else to do, would think about what brought them to this terrible point. And they would hate themselves for bringing themselves to this point. Loathing would set in, contempt of self, and will would break down. Sooner or later, they would realise, they are scum, a waste of air, and there is no point in continuing. Sooner or later they would break down and come to this crushing realisation. And they could do the decent thing and end it for themselves.

[Doc]

What you do with your Cheerios is your own business, under the rubric of consenting odd oats.

*ducks*

Occhi
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Are you trying to sow your wild oats again there young fella?

[Occhidiangela]

Are you trying to sow your wild oats again there young fella?
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Hey, you're the guy who brought up sex and the single cereal bowl --

Oh, wait, you said serial rapist.

*Emily Latella Voice*

"Never mind"

Occhi

[MongoJerry]

Maybe.

I's just pointing out a slice of local life and the issues we face where I live.

Some people deserve to die.

Tell me. Would you want a four or five time convicted kiddie rapist moving in to your neighborhood? Do you really think those sex offender lists keep your kids safe? These guys don't plan on stopping any time soon. Going to prison isn't a bad thing for them. In prison, they are often introduced to new networks and groups of people who have more effective means of luring children in. Most of these guys come out prison far more dangerous than when they went in. It's like a school for them.

That's a straw man argument. You're only offering the choice of death penalty or release from prison. There's a third option: life in prison. It keeps the child molesters you're afraid of safely away from kids without the mess that the death penalty brings with it.

Like it or not, there are people that just do not deserve to live.

I'm a Christian. I believe that none of us deserve to live, but by the grace of God we have all been shown mercy by the Creator. We are asked in turn to show mercy to those who may not deserve it as well.

[kandrathe]

Two points:

1) sex offender lists can include lost of people who have not committed offenses against children, and some whose only crime landed them on the list (soliciting a prostitute forces you to register if I'm not mistaken, and I think peeping might as well).  And I'm not sure about this, but it seems like the lists would not tell you what offences were committed, so before you go checking off your local list, make sure you feel that 1-time lonely folks deserve the same fate as the 4-time child rapists.

...
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Yup. A 21 yr old guy who worked for me ended up on the list for having a relationship with a (mature) 17 yr old. Yes, he was was an idiot, but is he a child molester?

[Doc]

That's a straw man argument.  You're only offering the choice of death penalty or release from prison.  There's a third option: life in prison.  It keeps the child molesters you're afraid of safely away from kids without the mess that the death penalty brings with it.
I'm a Christian.  I believe that none of us deserve to live, but by the grace of God we have all been shown mercy by the Creator.  We are asked in turn to show mercy to those who may not deserve it as well.
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Ok. We went there.

Ananias and Sapphira. Put to death by the church for lying about money. Just because you are a Christian doesn't mean that you can not support the right thing.

Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Tell me, do you think that sword is just for looks? To frighten? Just something there to hang off of his belt for decoration? Do the words "revenger to execute wrath" mean anything to you and your faith? That sword is for punishment. In short, cleaving people's heads off.

The sword that punishes fairly and justly is not used in vain. It is done for the common good.

[Occhidiangela]

The sword that punishes fairly and justly is not used in vain. It is done for the common good.
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While we are firing off platitudes . . . the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

Socialists and liberal elites, and any number of Neocons propose a variety of actions "for the common good" -- like the Patriot Act or The Great Society -- as they strive to create a Brave New World.

The common good is a rather subjective standard.

Occhi

[Doc]

While we are firing off platitudes . . . the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. 

Socialists and liberal elites, and any number of Neocons propose a variety of actions "for the common good" -- like the Patriot Act or The Great Society -- as they strive to create a Brave New World.

The common good is a rather subjective standard.

Occhi
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Touche'. And good point.

A fair and just system of laws should be enforced. Failure to obey should be dealt with punishment. In a fair and sensible court of law, certain folk can be put to death for the benefit of society.

But should be done so carefully and with consideration. In short, unrepentant repeat offenders.

I am all for rehab and getting people back to being reproductive members of society. I think our current prison systems are a joke. Lots of people there that don't need to be there, and a bunch of folk not there that should.

Rehab should be a painful time of reprogramming. In short, punishment. People deserving of it should get everything coming to him. Like that Sheriff guy does. Whatsisname, that makes people live in a tent city wearing pink knickers and stuff. However, it should also include education. Actual working education to offer somebody a means of supporting themselves and then a complicated system of multi tiered support when released. Depending on the criminal of course.

Others, well, others simply can not be returned to society and it is a waste of time and resources coddling them for the rest of their lives in a small cell with tv, radio, video games, playstations, xboxes, etc. They do not deserve these things. They do not deserve better medical, dental, and vision care than most hard working Americans. Where I live has a list of offenses which will get you three to nine months which some of the poor folk intentionally violate just to be able to go to jail, get their teeth fixed, get a new pair of glasses, and to be able to see the doctor for various physical ailments. The current system is absurd. It's a joke. You can walk in to a gas station, threaten the clerk with a butterknife, get arrested, and be out on the street again in six months with a brand new pair of 1200 dollar dentures.

Overhaul the system, dispose of the human trash, and spend the money where it should be. On hard working citizens that have needs. Reduce the situations where crime arises. Be rid of desperation.

But I can not abide on spending money on those who will never be cured. Why bother?

[kandrathe]

...
Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Tell me, do you think that sword is just for looks? To frighten? Just something there to hang off of his belt for decoration? Do the words "revenger to execute wrath" mean anything to you and your faith? That sword is for punishment. In short, cleaving people's heads off.

The sword that punishes fairly and justly is not used in vain. It is done for the common good.
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The problem with taking that verse (or any) out of context is... Is it the Christian, or the Roman government that wields the sword in this world? In Romans 13:1 Paul advises "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except by God’s appointment, and the authorities that exist have been instituted by God." And then again in 13:5-7 "Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of the wrath of the authorities but also because of your conscience. For this reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants devoted to governing. Pay everyone what is owed: taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due."

Paul is telling the Roman Christians to obey the law, submit to the authority of the state, follow Roman law except where it conflicts with God's law. Mans justice will be dealt out by the state, but that spiritual justice is handed out by God. That sword of rightousness is the sword of spiritual judgement, not a justification for capital punishment in this world.

[kandrathe]

What the heck does Nationality have to do with reading comprehension skills?

Shadow is not in favor of the death penalty, for any reason.  Doc is.  Therefore heated debate ensues.
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Yeah, I was almost offended since our State considers itself a psuedo Canadian province, at least they do north of Hibbing or Brainerd. We prefer to be called Knutes (after our only civil war hero Knute Nelson), although "Jackpine Savage" is used often when one goes winter camping. IIRC 30% of the State votes for Paul Martin even though he is not on the ballot.

[Guest]

What the heck does Nationality have to do with reading comprehension skills?

Shadow is not in favor of the death penalty, for any reason.  Doc is.  Therefore heated debate ensues.
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Dont be clueless please.

It was no insult on Canucks. We all know most Canucks disagree with most Americans(US residents) on the death penalty. I intend no slight to either
My clearly stated point was that I dont believe Doc wanted to argue about that. We all already know each others positions.

I think Doc wanted an argument between those who condone at least a degree of capital punishment.

Now you could say that I intended a minor insult on Shadow, but no for her position but rather for not picking up Docs point.



That said, it was Doc so Im sure he didnt mind Shadow as he loves any useless fight no matter who well explored the issues, even an incedental one.

[Doc]

Dont be clueless please.

It was no insult on Canucks. We all know most Canucks disagree with most Americans(US residents) on the death penalty. I intend no slight to either
My clearly stated point was that I dont believe Doc wanted to argue about that. We all already know each others positions.

I think Doc wanted an argument between those who condone at least a degree of capital punishment.

Now you could say that I intended a minor insult on Shadow, but no for her position but rather for not picking up Docs point.
That said, it was Doc so Im sure he didnt mind Shadow as he loves any useless fight no matter who well explored the issues, even an incedental one.
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Naw, I just love Shadow. She's a battle axe. :wub: And I admire her wit and wisdom. I don't hold it against her that she is from Canuckistan.

[SwissMercenary]

I don't hold it against her that she is from Canuckistan.
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That's Soviet Canuckistan, Sir.

[Doc]

That's Soviet Canuckistan, Sir.
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Aye comrad.