Terenas ZG 4/28 8:00 PM server

[Treesh]

Well, I posted an event on our GP site. We'll see how many sign up (and how many don't end up locked to another ZG by Friday ;) ) and I'll talk to Vilus so he can warn those LS folks about raidlocks as well. Unfortunately Feero won't be there since he's taking a break, but I wanted to try for this weekend for ZG anyway. Sorry if this throws a crimp in anyone's KotD plans (there's nothing currently on their site about ZG on Saturday yet). *eyeballs Necrali and Fazuul* ;)

If we don't get the folks, we can split into smaller groups again. I'd prefer either UBRS, Scholo or either strat side. Yeah, I know. Really cuts down on the choices, doesn't it? ;) But I do think my order of preference is how I typed it.

Edit: Noob! Lern2checkraidreset. I'm moving this back a week so you guys don't have to ditch a Wednesday night with KotD. 4/28, not 4/21. Could a mod please edit the title for me?

And since GG should be around with us on the 21st (hooray for free days!), could we try AQ20 if we get enough folks this weekend?

Edit: Fixed title--Mav

[vor_lord]

Edit: Noob!  Lern2checkraidreset.  I'm moving this back a week so you guys don't have to ditch a Wednesday night with KotD.  4/28, not 4/21.  Could a mod please edit the title for me?

And since GG should be around with us on the 21st (hooray for free days!), could we try AQ20 if we get enough folks this weekend?
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I won't be with KotD this Wednesday, so either is fine with me. For me personally, if I knew we were going to have our own run I'd much rather do that.

What might be fun (Fazuul's raid lock would be the complication) would be to try to complete the Perfect Poison quest. Lurkers/LS easily handled Venoxis before, and I don't think Kurinaxx is any harder as long as you have two warriors. I think it would be a good taste of success for both guilds to do that, and someone is guaranteed to be happy if we drop Kurinaxx.

We have been getting the numbers -- just need two warriors. With Conc gone for a while, hopefully Vasska can come and help one of ours. Voiceman tells me that Vasska is exalted in all three BGs, and is a good portion of the way to General which is where he is planning to stop. After that he wants to be a raid tank (hmmmm, I seem to remember that Friday nights are not the best for him, better than for Jandrey but still not great).

For raid success, gearing up another tank or two would really help.

Speaking of that, I just want to point out that Wimpy is starting to collect some decent tanking gear. Swirly's warrior is in better shape right now, but to take swirlywar we lose a very well-geared hunter. To take Doomstar we lose a well-geared mage. Jandrey is of course in the best shape for this -- we may want to again discuss schedules with the Lost Souls for raiding and see how we can include him.

At any rate, Wimpy currently possesses:

• Timeworn Mace<>
  
• Stockade Pauldrons<>
  
• Gyth's Skull<>
  
• Bracers of Heroism<>
  
• Force Imbued Gauntlets<>
  [st]With a Scarlet Strat run, he can add Ornate Adamantium Breastplate. Legs, boots, and shield are junk. I think some Scholo runs for some Deathbone pieces would yield some tank gear too.
  
  Urza, where is Jandrey as far as tanking gear is concerned?
  
  I think definitely scheduling a joint Lurkers/Draconic Vendetta* run would be good, need to reestablish that. If we end up in UBRS that is very worthwhile too.
  
  edit: Changed Lost Souls to Draconic Vendetta which is apparently where nearly everyone we knew from the Lost Souls has moved to
  
  edit2: Looks like the KotD are trying to refocus on getting further into ZG, and have at least for now abandoned their ideas of dropping Kurinaxx before heading to ZG. So, I say we give AQ20 a shot this Friday if we get the people -- it shouldn't conflict with Fazuul's raid lock.
  
  edit3: I will NOT be available on the 28th (I'll be traveling) but I think I'll be there for the 21st. However, from May 1st on I will be in high availability mode for nearly two months, i.e., probably able to play most nights and starting earlier than I do now.

[Alram]

:w00t:
I'll be there! I'll even stay up late for the occasion! I signed up with Rogoll, but I know that AoE is desirable, so if there are not enough mage types I'll bring Magead instead.
:D

[Urza-DSF]

Heh, Jandrey is damn near perfect when it comes to tanking gear. He just needs a decent +def helm (Valor at the moment) and cloak (Pale Moon at the moment) and he will be well over 400 DEF(Want to say hes at 390 right now). The problem is that I leave for work at 9:30am EST, so I doubt I'll be of use.

[WimpySmurf]

Wimpy will be there Friday night. Though it may not be till 8:30.

vor_lord has my current taking gear correct which puts me at 329 def and I think I'm ~5500AC 4200HP unbuffed. (+100 HP if I can get my +9 sta enchant for my bracers before we raid).

I will be out of town April 26-30, so next week I won't be available.

[Concillian]

What might be fun (Fazuul's raid lock would be the complication) would be to try to complete the Perfect Poison quest.&nbsp; Lurkers/LS easily handled Venoxis before, and I don't think Kurinaxx is any harder as long as you have two warriors.&nbsp; I think it would be a good taste of success for both guilds to do that, and someone is guaranteed to be happy if we drop Kurinaxx.
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Kurinaxx is no Venoxis. He's not do a ton of damage or suck mana, but the fight is significantly more complicated.

He periodically spawns these pimples in random places in the sand that pop and silence everyone around the pimple plus lowers their chance to hit by some obscene amount (I think it's 75%). They also do like 1500-2000 damage or so. Avoiding these is the primary complication of the fight. They can spawn anywhere in range of him, not just on the sand.

Also he puts a stackable and non-dispellable debuff on a tank that reduces healing by 10% per application. 5 applications = healing reduced by 50%. Incoming damage is low enough that you can heal through it up to around 70% or so if you waste a lot of mana.

You want multiple tanks so they can swap aggro around when debuffs get too high on one tank. However if they're all working on Kurinaxx, they will inevitably at one point in the fight all get silenced (no taunt) and have a huge miss rate (no mocking blow). and you will be unable to swap tanks for aggro. So you kind of need one tank to be somewhere else and come in to take aggro if the others get silenced. This is difficult because he doesn't build much aggro at range, so avoiding a silence is preferable.

From a healer standpoint (I was using my priest in the PUG I went with) you have to KEEP MOVING and throw out quick heals to try and avoid being silenced. Kurinaxx doesn't do a TON of damage that I saw, it was just that eventually enough healers got silenced or tanks couldn't juggle aggro and they went down. You can't have a primary healer, you have to juggle healing duties, as one healer could be silenced in the middle of casting (the sand pimples come up pretty quick, if one starts while casting, it pretty much will hit you unless you cancel your cast and RUN.)

I could see just about any PUG eventually getting Venoxis in a few tries. Kurinaxx though is a more complicated fight that requires significant coordination. Do-able, but the difficulty level is several steps higher than Venoxis.

[VoiceMan]

It looks like KotD will be running AQ20 on Mondays, and ZG Wednesdays and Fridays. I'm not certain if I can afford to raid 4 nights a week (wife aggro), but at this point, my ZG goals are nearly met, so I'm about ready to just work on helping our crowd work through ZG. As of this posting...I am one coin short of my ZG bracers....3 coins and some 4000+ rep for my Revered Chestpiece. I already have the belt. I am nowhere near having the mats for things like the trinket, or enchant, so I'm not really pursuing those. I will try and watch raid lock times, but I'm all for trying AQ20 this week. The trick will be getting the people there, including the needed two warriors. I think if Xarhud can plan on healing, we ought to have enough healing, especially if Deadpriest also can come.

If AQ doesn't happen for some reason, then I'm good for wherever I'm needed the most. I still need the Wildheart Cowl from Gandling in Scholo, my Kilt from the Baron, and the chestpiece from Drakk in UBRS, so any of those locations will get my vote, not neccessarily in that order.

[Kevin]

Kurinaxx is no Venoxis.&nbsp; He's not do a ton of damage or suck mana, but the fight is significantly more complicated.
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No disagreement but I've killed him with my warrior (twice), paladin, and druid now (the druid started as a DPS kitty and ended up being a healer then the tank because of a few deaths). Though I haven't done much of anything else in AQ20 yet. I've even killed him with two different strats. One where he was moved around constantly and one where you pretty much left him where he was and rotated the tanks in and out.

It is more technical but I also have confidence that if we get 18 or so Lurkers + Lost Souls and just a pick-up or two, that we could down him. I'd be happier with a full 20 from the 2 guilds of course.

[Tuftears]

I'm with GG on this, as long as your warriors and healers are reasonably geared, you should be able to take Kurinnaxx.

My advice:

* Spread out, healers should not be in the same spot
* Don't sweat running around so much, you have just as much chance to run into a trap
* Do kite him back and forth, in a line seems to work better than in a circle
* Non-tanks bandage or potion after being sand-trapped
* Lightwells = extra bandages for when you're debuffed
* Try to time the taunts - don't time them immediately when the tank gets a debuff increase, wait about 5 seconds, then taunt
* Don't have all the warriors get silenced at once - have a warrior or two standing by to taunt
* Druid healers can go bear quickly if they have good armor on their healer gear and taunt, especially when Kurinnaxx's at 10%. Other healers need to be paying attention for when we have an 'off-off-tank', dying is no fun.

Rajaxx, I dunno so much for a not-well-equipped group. This fight really, really taxes your healers and tanks. On the other paw, a lot of forum posters talk about how easy this fight is if you just keep the NPCs healed.

Usually we assign druids to root some of the incoming mobs, so there are fewer running all over the raid, and we have warriors off-tank the swarmguards because they die faster but they do a lot of damage, so they need to be killed quicker. It might be that it would work better if we rooted the swarmguards on top of the NPCs instead, since the NPCs can put out a lot of damage. The warriors are softies.

[vor_lord]

I could see just about any PUG eventually getting Venoxis in a few tries.&nbsp; Kurinaxx though is a more complicated fight that requires significant coordination.&nbsp; Do-able, but the difficulty level is several steps higher than Venoxis.
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I think this fight is doable by us, harder than Venoxis but not by too much. The hardest thing about this fight is when it's time to swap and the tank gets silenced. KotD did it on their second try. They used the "keep him in one spot" strategy -- melee and spare tanks behind. When time to switch, tank would get in front before taunting.

I don't believe there is much coordination needed. When tank gets 4-6 debuffs (decide beforehand, I would prefer 4 so that if one gets silenced you aren't already in a 6 hole trying to keep them standing up--with KotD they only had two warriors so little margin for error), then you taunt and switch. Everyone else's role is very straightforward -- try to avoid blowing up, bandage/pot if you do get blown up, and keep up heals on the tanks so they don't go down. Unlucky combinations of silences can get you.

I'd want to make sure you try to get everyone over 4000 health buffed so you can take two hits as a clothie. I didn't like getting blown up again while I was bandaging from the last one but I did survive it (necropile set!).

Oh and my lightwell is actually useful in this fight :)

[vor_lord]

Heh, Jandrey is damn near perfect when it comes to tanking gear.&nbsp; He just needs a decent +def helm (Valor at the moment)

Hmmm ok easiest options are Golem Skull and Gyth's Skull. Expensive but better is ET helm.

and cloak (Pale Moon at the moment) and he will be well over 400 DEF(Want to say hes at 390 right now).&nbsp;

More tribute for the elusive Redoubt Cloak for you!

Do you have a Draconian Deflector? Nice!

The problem is that I leave for work at 9:30am EST, so I doubt I'll be of use.
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That's why I mentioned trying to consider a different schedule, but I don't know how realistic that is as every time we talk about it, there are too many people that can't come other times :(

[vor_lord]

* Do kite him back and forth, in a line seems to work better than in a circle

What does this help with? I've only faced him once so I'm curious other ways to beat him.

* Try to time the taunts - don't time them immediately when the tank gets a debuff increase, wait about 5 seconds, then taunt

Ah I see -- if the healers know the switch is coming he can absorb some extra damage and they don't heal him until the debuffs are back off. Is that the reason?

Rajaxx, I dunno so much for a not-well-equipped group.&nbsp; This fight really, really taxes your healers and tanks.&nbsp; On the other paw, a lot of forum posters talk about how easy this fight is if you just keep the NPCs healed.

I'm not sure with our baby alliance we should even try Rajaxx. The one time I tried it, all the NPCs were alive and well (I have a target Lt. General Andorov macro) but the third wave just mauled all the healers.

[Tuftears]

What does this (running him back and forth in a line) help with?&nbsp; I've only faced him once so I'm curious other ways to beat him.

I'm not actually sure but we use a gnome MT, so my thought is that the gnome has trouble seeing around the bug in order to be able to navigate. It also means that the raid can position themselves and do DPS instead of having to constantly move, either out of the way or to get back in range.

If you try to move him in a circle, then the path can be somewhat erratic and the ranged/healer types get 'corralled' in the middle of the circle, instead of being able to spread out on both sides, which means they're more subject to sandtraps.

(re: waiting some secs before taunting)&nbsp; Ah I see -- if the healers know the switch is coming he can absorb some extra damage and they don't heal him until the debuffs are back off.&nbsp; Is that the reason?

No, the reason is that he's almost certainly not going to hit with another debuff soon. The taunt effect lasts 5 seconds or so for warriors. The idea here is that Rajaxx uses his cleave attacks about every 10 seconds. I'm not sure that it's actually consistent in timing... But either way, the idea is that you want the *next* debuff to miss the MT, then the MT can go back to tanking.

We've never been able to get a second warrior to reliably steal the aggro from the MT, getting 10% more threat is easier said than done after that much threat has been built up by the tank, so our focus has been on temporarily taking the aggro away.

A warrior can blow Mocking Blow (2 min cooldown) to get a full 10 secs of taunt time, too.

Mortal Wound, the debuff he applies, lasts for 15 seconds. Thus, waiting for 5 seconds after a fresh debuff was applied, then applying a taunt, should bridge the middle part where he would reapply it. Using Mocking Blow is just the backup if you're not sure you've got the timing right.

I'm not sure with our baby alliance we should even try Rajaxx.&nbsp; The one time I tried it, all the NPCs were alive and well (I have a target Lt. General Andorov macro) but the third wave just mauled all the healers.

For the third, fourth, and fifth waves, we recently changed to having the MT run in ahead of the NPCs and tank the captain. That way, the NPCs won't be aggroed by the AOEs as the AOE-heavy captain comes in, and get killed by the third wave's lightning storms.

If you're solid players, which is likely, then there's no reason not to try it. It's a blast!

Once you have Rajaxx down, if you have at least 3 warlocks and 2 priests, then definitely go for Moam next, on the right.

[Mavfin]

[snip]

We've never been able to get a second warrior to reliably steal the aggro from the MT, getting 10% more threat is easier said than done after that much threat has been built up by the tank, so our focus has been on temporarily taking the aggro away.

A warrior can blow Mocking Blow (2 min cooldown) to get a full 10 secs of taunt time, too.

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So, instead of tank-switching, you're sort of doing what we do on Ebonroc with the debuff and all the drakes with the buffets...just taunting him off the main tank while the debuff or de-aggro goes away, then let the tank have him back...

Is that about right? (only been around for one Kurinaxx kill)

[Kevin]

The taunt effect lasts 5 seconds or so for warriors.&nbsp; The idea here is that Rajaxx uses his cleave attacks about every 10 seconds.&nbsp;
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OK where is this stuff coming from? Taunt is 2 seconds for warrior and for druids. Mocking blow is 6 seconds. It's very easy to test. Go taunt a mob, time how long the debuff stays on it. I've seen people say taunt is longer a few times recently. Maybe it's because some attacks from mobs take longer and it won't switch back till the attack is done so it can appear to take more than 2 seconds to switch off, but taunt only gives you 2 seconds and mocking blow only gives you 6.

[vor_lord]

If you try to move him in a circle, then the path can be somewhat erratic and the ranged/healer types get 'corralled' in the middle of the circle, instead of being able to spread out on both sides, which means they're more subject to sandtraps.

That makes sense -- but my question was not so much why in a straight line, but why move him at all? Why would the gnome MT need to navigate anywhere other than to go behind when not tanking? It seems keeping the bug stationary would help DPS and healers -- they can just get positioned and strafe left to right to avoid sandtraps.

We've never been able to get a second warrior to reliably steal the aggro from the MT, getting 10% more threat is easier said than done after that much threat has been built up by the tank, so our focus has been on temporarily taking the aggro away.

Hmmm, didn't notice this wrinkle the *one* time I killed him. It seemed the aggro swap was only a problem when either the taunt was resisted, or the offtank was silenced. Tanks in blues though.

If you're solid players, which is likely, then there's no reason not to try it.&nbsp; It's a blast!

The Lurkers are solid players. Our allied guild though, we generally tend to see new people every time, so they vary greatly (Whopperjr*, anyone?). For the most part those that come are good, but perhaps less PvE experienced than we are.

I'd be very skeptical about our chances on Rajaxx.

*Funny story for us Terenas folks -- the guild Fatal Energy tried to recruit me the other night. They were very polite, and after I explained I was quite happy I wasn't bothered more. I did a /who on them, and Whopperjr has joined them... :lol:

I almost felt obligated to warn them...

[Urza-DSF]

Full gear listing:
Head: Helm of Valor
Neck: Medallion of Grand Marshal Morris
Shoulders: Bulky Iron Spaulders
Back: Redoubt Cloak
Chest: Kromcrush's Chestplate
Bracer: Bracers of Heroism
Hands: Stonegrip Gauntlets
Belt: Belt of Heroism
Legs: Deathbone Legguards
Feet: Deathbone Sabatons
Ring1: Band of the Ogre King
Ring2: Band of the Ogre King
Trink1: Rune of the Guard Captain
Trink2: Royal Seal of Eldre'Thalas / Seal of the Dawn

MH: Silent Fang
OH: Draconian Deflector

2H: Barberous Blade

RN: Carapace Spine Crossbow w/ Doomshot Ammo

So yeah, I just need giths helm (preferabily with +FR for the random) ^_^

As for the different schedule... I really dont know. Theres no way I can ever make it to anything on friday nights, but other than that I'm open all weekend and every weekday.

Edit: Picked up a few new pieces.

[Kevin]

Full gear listing:
Head: Helm of Valor
Neck: Medallion of Grand Marshal Morris
Shoulders: Bulky Iron Spaulders
Back: Pale Moon Cloak
Chest: Kromcrush's Chestplate
Bracer: Bracers of Heroism
Hands: Stonegrip Gauntlets
Belt: Belt of Heroism
Legs: Deathbone Legguards
Feet: Deathbone Sabatons
Ring1: Band of the Ogre King
Ring2: Blood of the Maytr
Trink1: Rune of the Guard Captain
Trink2: Royal Seal of Eldre'Thalas / Seal of the Dawn

MH: Silent Fang
OH: Draconian Deflector
RN: Carapace Spine Crossbow w/ Doomshot Ammo

So yeah, I just need giths helm (preferabily with +FR for the random) and that damn rebdoubt ^_^

As for the different schedule... I really dont know.&nbsp; Theres no way I can ever make it to anything on friday nights, but other than that I'm open all weekend and every weekday.
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Might be worth looking at getting a Naglering instead of the Blood of the Martyr. 5 less stam but 5 def and a little armor and a tiny little thorns aura. It's really a great druid ring now.

[Treesh]

That makes sense -- but my question was not so much why in a straight line, but why move him at all?&nbsp; Why would the gnome MT need to navigate anywhere other than to go behind when not tanking?&nbsp; It seems keeping the bug stationary would help DPS and healers -- they can just get positioned and strafe left to right to avoid sandtraps.[right][snapback]107653[/snapback][/right]

If he sets up a sand trap directly underneath him, it can be difficult to see. You move him around, it's less likely that you'll miss seeing a sand trap popping up underneath him and silencing a bunch of folks.

*Funny story for us Terenas folks -- the guild Fatal Energy tried to recruit me the other night.&nbsp; They were very polite, and after I explained I was quite happy I wasn't bothered more.&nbsp; I did a /who on them, and Whopperjr has joined them...&nbsp; :lol:

I almost felt obligated to warn them...
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Yeah, I saw Whopper trying to scrounge up folks for some kind of run one day and decided to do a /who on him and noticed the new guild. My first thought? If they're recruiting folks like that, they certainly do have "fatal energy" and will soon be kaput. ;) At least they didn't keep hounding you after you turned them down though. Good for them.

[Mirajj]

If he sets up a sand trap directly underneath him, it can be difficult to see.&nbsp; You move him around, it's less likely that you'll miss seeing a sand trap popping up underneath him and silencing a bunch of folks.
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Yep. One unseen sand trap under him, and all your tanks and rogues are now silenced and missing 3/4 of their swings. That generally means ranged or healers are going to get eaten fast. ;)