Terenas - More 45 min attempts

[Concillian]

I am not sure I can make early on Sunday, my post says 8:00.  I might be there that early, we'll have to see.

I know that makes things rough for the first one, as Mogo solo healing this is a real tall order for the Baron fight himself.  It'd really suck to make it in time, engage the Baron, and wipe.
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Mogo is 7:30 or later. I have temporarily slotted my own priest into the early group. I don't know FOR SURE that I can make it that early on sunday, at the very least I will have to break for dinner in there somewhere, but with so much DPS, I think the group can afford a less well geared priest without the shadow protection book.

Concillian is talented with PI... that should give Mist a significant amount of extra DPS. It would be fun to occasionally set up a pull where Mist uses Arcane power, I use PI on Mist and GG sets up an Aimed shot. Mob go BOOM! Kinda like how GG can do with the non-elite skellies when pulling the caster groups... except on an elite. Perhaps something to use on those Necro bastards that drain life.

[vor_lord]

Concillian is talented with PI... that should give Mist a significant amount of extra DPS.  It would be fun to occasionally set up a pull where Mist uses Arcane power, I use PI on Mist and GG sets up an Aimed shot.  Mob go BOOM!  Kinda like how GG can do with the non-elite skellies when pulling the caster groups... except on an elite.  Perhaps something to use on those Necro bastards that drain life.
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Don't forget that Power Infusion no longer stacks with Arcane Power as of 1.10.2 :(

[Concillian]

Don't forget that Power Infusion no longer stacks with Arcane Power as of 1.10.2 :(
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Oh, right. Well we can use them in series to blow stuff up ™ for a longer percentage of time then. The good thing about PI vs. AP is that PI takes fixed (and pretty small, I think around 250) amount of priest mana vs. the 40% additional mage mana that AP does.

[khgerg]

I can make any night except Saturday starting at 8:00pm if I know that we are making a run.

[Concillian]

I can make any night except Saturday starting at 8:00pm if I know that we are making a run.

Well, that complicates the groupings a bit.

Come by tonight if you can. If Mistique got a completion on an early run, you can probably sub in directly for him. Otherwise a sub in will have to break up the dynamic Mogo / Marn duo.

I will update Monday with any changes brought about by tonight's successes / failures. At this poing I'm just scheduling groups for this coming Sunday night and Tuesday night. Any future needs will be in a seperate thread.

[khgerg]

Got a double post somehow.

[vor_lord]

Well, we did a lot of attempts and learned a lot.

With our second group setup, we succeeded, engaging the Baron with just under 5 minutes to spare (we'd also slowed down once we saw we would make it):

Group:

Jandrey (MT)
Conc (DPS Warrior/OT)
Mistique (AoE and water vendor)
Necrali (MH and shackle #1)
Xarhud (Vamp Embrace and shackle #2)

This group I think is nearly ideal. Two priests mean unexpected pulls are much more manageable, and vamp embrace is simply unbelievably strong. Two warriors mean safe AoE.

Anyway here are some raw screenies, will spend some time cleaning them up later.

[Kevin]

Glad to hear that removing me and my mistakes helped out. Conc does pretty much the same damage as Marn + Meowry so you lost no DPS, and Conc didn't need to stop to drink like I did. The extra healing was likely the biggest help though. The first group could not make even a little mistake without spare healing. Replacing me or Rogoll with Mogo or Keshoga or Xarhud or Fazuul or Bringer would have likely meant success.

A tank
AoE
2 healers
DPS

That is what the 45 minute run needs it seems.

If one of the Healers can do decent DPS (a shadow priest, a druid in cat form, a shaman, a holy damage priest) so much the better as you don't need two healers most of the time. But the DPS slot could be a mage, hunter, rogue, warlock, warrior, feral druid. I wouldn't want to have 3 healing spec'd people. Having 2 DPS instead of the extra healer doesn't seem to work either. Sure we could move faster but mistakes were much less forgiving and you couldn't always slow down enough to make sure the mistakes weren't going to happen.

I did learn the prefered route well enough to be able to pull it faster and be less likely to mess up. So hopefully the next time I'm in a DPS slot I won't screw up like I did last time.

[vor_lord]

I think more than anything we just learned all the potential pitfalls. Too bad all your hard work, although crucial to our success, didn't result in you getting credit yet. On our sucessful run, we only had one pull where we got more than we thought, and with two shackles we handled it well. I think the main reason we didn't have more mistakes is because we'd made them recently.

By the time Xarhud and Conc showed up, I was able to remind everyone repeatedly (and myself) about all the places to hug the wall, don't step left, watch the ghoul pack on the right, etc. If we hadn't done the first runs we would have made those mistakes in a later one. Our first attempt with the second group we wiped with just one mistake, and guess what? It was in a place that was later than what we got to with the first group. I think you have to make a bunch of mistakes to remind you to not do them the next time.

Good news is now we have 3 people who know how to do the pulls -- GG, Urza, and Conc.

If you don't make any mistakes, nearly any group can do it (assuming they can do it non-45 minute). Having a backup healer really helps if you make a mistake. The best mistakes are those that you just pull a mob that you were going to kill anyway.

Necrali isn't very good at keeping herself alive in those situations -- I need to get better. Healthstone, health pot, etc.

[Concillian]

The first group could not make even a little mistake without spare healing. Replacing me or Rogoll with Mogo or Keshoga or Xarhud or Fazuul or Bringer would have likely meant success.

I agree that it's much more forgiving with any backup healer. But like Vor said, this group was pretty much ideal. the backup healer being a priest was a HUGE help for the second shackle. The DPS being a warrior was a help too, not just because of the lack of mana dependence, but because if I pull aggro I still take less damage than anyone else and that damage helps my DPS (and vamp embrace would mostly cover that damage gap). Plus I could switch to shield and tank if needed (though it wasn't really ever necessary).

[vor_lord]

Tonight we completed first attempt with:

Conc
Xarhud
Necrali
Yuri
Octord

Was a couple of minutes slower, with an extra 3 pull of ghouls.

There is currently another run going on so hopefully the number will grow.

[Concillian]

There is currently another run going on so hopefully the number will grow.

Conc
Bringer
AllbeefPatie
Yuri
Keshoga

Was not successful. It was a lower DPS group and we were behind the pace of the other groups, but we didn't get a chance to see if we were fast enough, we got feared into a pull we didn't need (and wiped) and the second run we stepped where we shouldn't have when fighting the Baroness. 2nd attempt switched Bringer into more of a DPS role with Mist's druid healing and that was higher overall DPS.

6 people completed in 2 nights isn't too bad.

For reference on what kind of DPS it takes, I had Yuri, Octord and Mistique all holding between 210 and 225 DPS, very close to each other and on seperate runs. Xarhud was a little further behind in the 170ish range. Keshoga was putting out 140ish and bumped my tanking DPS from 70ish to 90ish with windfury, so similar DPS to Xarhud in the slot of backup healer, though if matched with a DPS warrior + tanking warrior, would account for 200+ all on his own by increasing both of the warriors DPS. Our successful runs were all putting out at least 650-700 DPS from what I can tell, with 2 DPS classes at 200+, 1 backup healer at 150+ and a healer and tank that are capable of 150DPS combined.

I think I sent Dark Iron Bars or Cured Rugged Hides to everyone who needed them, let me know if you need either of those for the followup quest. I'm almost out of hides, but I know Marn and Nash both have stacks of them for the future completions. Seems like we have over 130 Dark Iron Ore between me and Bringer and Mist, so even though I'm under 20 bars, we should be able to replenish the supply for forging some fire resist gear or to cover the whole guild on upgrade quests if we need it. I've just been hanging on to my bars.

Thursday I'm planning on a tribute run to get some of the DM junk to continue with the questline. If anyone wants to join me. If not I'll probably try for a PUG. Unless Jester is on, he needs a Mara run bad since he currently has no 1H weapon to even attempt tanking with.

[Treesh]

Thursday I'm planning on a tribute run to get some of the DM junk to continue with the questline. If anyone wants to join me. If not I'll probably try for a PUG. Unless Jester is on, he needs a Mara run bad since he currently has no 1H weapon to even attempt tanking with.

I need a Tribute run to turn in the gauntlet.

[WimpySmurf]

Thursday I'm planning on a tribute run to get some of the DM junk to continue with the questline. If anyone wants to join me. If not I'll probably try for a PUG. Unless Jester is on, he needs a Mara run bad since he currently has no 1H weapon to even attempt tanking with.

Wimpy will be around Thursday and needs an opportunity to turn in a Codex he picked up. So a tribute run would work for him.

[Kevin]

I think I sent Dark Iron Bars or Cured Rugged Hides to everyone who needed them, let me know if you need either of those for the followup quest. I'm almost out of hides, but I know Marn and Nash both have stacks of them for the future completions. Seems like we have over 130 Dark Iron Ore between me and Bringer and Mist, so even though I'm under 20 bars, we should be able to replenish the supply for forging some fire resist gear or to cover the whole guild on upgrade quests if we need it. I've just been hanging on to my bars.

Thursday I'm planning on a tribute run to get some of the DM junk to continue with the questline. If anyone wants to join me. If not I'll probably try for a PUG. Unless Jester is on, he needs a Mara run bad since he currently has no 1H weapon to even attempt tanking with.

One of my stacks of hides went to Treesh when I left, I'm not sure where she put it, but I still have a fair bit, and I know that Nash has extra refined salt (I don't store the salt, just turn it into cured hides right away) that would allow rapid creation of more. I have been using cured hides for some of the dragonscale gear for FR and other things but I still have a good stack.

I need a tribute run for a 2nd Tarnished Elven ring to get more +hit (will up my DPS and make me a better Tranqer in MC when I get the book) and I need to turn the gauntlets in. However Thursday is also turning into about the only night I raid on Stormrage anymore, so I'm wondering what time you would want to do a tribute? The raid (which I'm not sure I'm in yet) would start at 5:30 Terenas time and they go 3 to 5 hours. I know Treesh can't really do anything till 7:30 or se Terenas time and I don't want to delay a run just for me, though as a hunter it can be tough to get in a PuG 5 man on Terenas (I've tried a few times) even if I don't have too much trouble getting into PuG UBRS runs.

[vor_lord]

Necrali will be around Thursday, waiting on Regicide to kill Majordomo. I'd like to come as well on a tribute if there is room for me.

[Concillian]

Start time would be 8-8:30ish (probably closer to 8:30ish) server time.

I can go later for sure, no sure about the others.

I don't know about you, but I'm starting to notice that we're reaching the size that we can almost ask for something and get a Lurker's group on almost any night that isn't a Keepers raiding night.

I really didn't expect to get so many people saying "oh, I need a trib run" on a Thursday night.

[Kevin]

Start time would be 8-8:30ish (probably closer to 8:30ish) server time.

I can go later for sure, no sure about the others.

I don't know about you, but I'm starting to notice that we're reaching the size that we can almost ask for something and get a Lurker's group on almost any night that isn't a Keepers raiding night.

I really didn't expect to get so many people saying "oh, I need a trib run" on a Thursday night.

We are getting big enough to do stuff most nights that aren't a raid night, and that is cool and I'm glad because as mentioned as a hunter it is not easy to get a PuG, I am pretty reliant on guild stuff to go places other than UBRS (which I don't really need to go to anymore oddly enough).

For me right now I'm focusing most of my Terenas play time on getting the warlock to 60 so I haven't been asking for much lately (though I have gone along for the ride a few times).

I also, as you may have noticed, don't care all that much about pushing for gear or stuff on my toons. I'm usually happier to go along and help someone else get something done than I am to organize something for myself. That has always been a weakness of mine as a leader in this game. It's another reason why I don't look for PuGs that much. I don't care all that much. The stuff I pushed for for my toons on Stormrage (all the work I did getting FR gear for my wariror as an example and the healing gear and feral gear for my druid) was all so that I could be more effective in the raids to help the 39 other people out. I still love my shinies but I don't usually care that much about getting them and I generally feel nervous and less happy if I organize something to try and get something for myself. I wasn't all that happy about putting a group together for Balador to get a chestpiece on Stormrage the other day.

It's why I love why vor_lord puts the groups together and feel bad that I don't offer him more help in doing it. I'm not a good leader for stuff like that, because a leader needs to care about it more. :) So you won't see me step up a lot and ask to do a run for something unless it's really been nagging at me or it's something that will be a big benefit to the group. The tarnished elven ring might start making me call for groups. And you might see me start calling for incendius runs too. But I likely won't call for an emperor run even though the quest reward would be an upgrade or a DM West run even if there is loot in there that would help me. I'd love to go along but I hide away from organizing them.

Just figured I'd get that out in the open again.

[Xame]

It's why I love why vor_lord puts the groups together and feel bad that I don't offer him more help in doing it.

Don't worry about it. Vor_lord loves doing this sort of thing. He might grumble but those of us who know him in RL know he does that about most things (even things he enjoys). What is really the issue is, who is coming and where should we go. Most of us say, I'll go where ever. But this is very much like a group of friends standing around for two hours discussing where to go for dinner when we are all starving. Thus what has worked well in planning is people throwing out their needs (places that they can get quests done, upgrades etc.) and then going through them as a guild.

Thus I suspect we can do an emperor run with a DI ore smelting run. Also if I get moving on Yuri, I could prep up some scholo quests that I just haven't bothered with to tie in with some flask making. It's just a matter of finding out peoples needs and then putting groups together that can all get things done (or at the very least help a fellow guildie get something done). The hardest and most frustrating part is not knowing where we as a group want to go and spending game time talking about it.

So far the set piece quests w/ the ony quest line has been a focus just because several of us are on the same steps. But we have quite a few people that we should clear quests for in some of the non-raid instances just to help them gear up and have FUN. Just need the list of who and where.

[Concillian]

What is really the issue is, who is coming and where should we go. Most of us say, I'll go where ever.

I think this whole thread is a testament to that.

Vor and I talked about wanting to get 45 minute runs done, I posted when I could go.... "BAM" we did several runs between the two nights with lots of interested people

Then I make mention that I could stand to do a trib run on Thursday since for those of us who completed the 45 minute run, there is a collection quest that requires killing ogres and 9 hours later there are 4 others saying "Count me in!"

Once someone says "I'd like to do this" most of the time people jump on the idea. We just need people to not be afraid to make a suggestion. Like I think next week we should try for a Strat Live run that incorporates Wimpy and Jester (Tirion Fordring questline) and Xarhud (Devout gloves). Now that we have the speed strat dead run down, we should be able to start powering through some of the other instances too!