The Chicken of the Sea

[kandrathe]

Since I don't like to clog up the lounge with new threads when possible...

Or, if PSU is the problem then take a year off, work and save up some money. Move to Minneapolis, transfer to the University of Minnesota and finish your degree. Or, some other good chemical engineering school/city of your choice.

[Occhidiangela]

Forgive my scattered thoughts. I am at a crossroads and need some soundboarding. I know some lurkers have performed US military duty, and I wish for your thoughts on my situation particularly.

My main concern is that I do not wish to follow the path of my father in that he started fairly late for starting a family. I would like to before I am 30, but a military path... does not seem very conducive at this stage. I would be 26-28 at the end of the official service, and 31 before my 8 year sign on period would end. That too scares me. I'm near the stage where bumming around and having a laugh seems like it'll be more fleeting. However, my career paths also look limited at this moment.

Drasca:

1. Navy is a good choice, IMO. I am biased. 25 years before I retired, Navy. Is the enlistment contract a 6 active 2 reserve deal? Or is it 8 years active? There used to be 4 / 4, and 6/2, but I am a bit out of the loop on that.

2. As to starting a family at 30, no worries. We didn't have a daughter until I was 30, son at 33, and it has worked out well. You stay healthy, you can enjoy them, and join in their lives, plenty long.

3. Not sure what your interests in the Navy would be, but if you can get into the nuclear propulsion ratings you will expand on your initial engineering degree with practical experience. This should enable you to earn most of engineering degree while on Active Duty. Save your tuition savings plan for the Master's Degree. B)

4. PM me if you have detailed questions about where the Navy is going.

Occhi

[Malakar]

To add on to that: running, yes for aerobic, but you also need to add three days a week of strength training to add muscle mass and thus speed up your metabolism a touch. In the Army, you will have to haul a ruck sack, and a bit of strength helps there.

Occhi

Some comments on strength training:

Be careful not to go overboard in the beginning. It's a bad idea to go to the gym in the morning before breakfast, and on your first day strain yourself on leg presses. That's a good way to pass out.:)Start with a bit of cardio for a few days so your heart can keep up with the requirements your muscles put on it (legs especially get your heart pumping). Make sure you've eaten before working out (doesn't have to be much, but you don't want to be on an empty stomach after waking up).

As Occhi said, 3 days a week (every other day basically) is good. Working out just breaks down your muscles; your body needs rest time to actually repair and build new tissue. It's during that repair time that your body requires essential nutrients, the amount of which is critical.

People that are naturally thinghtweight often have trouble building significant muscle mass because they simply don't eat enough to pack on the pounds. That was certainly my problem. For some, working out induces cravings for food. For others, you have to make yourself eat enough. On the other hand, naturally thinghtweight people typically have an easier time cutting fat.

For building muscle, you need lots of protein. Eating carbs in the same meal as protein is also essential, as it provides the energy your body needs to use the protein. I'm not quite sure but I think in general people tend to go with about 60%/40% carb/protein ratio in a meal, though it's been a while, it may be the other way around. But basically make sure you are getting some carbs in with your protein. As Munkay said, Whey protein is very good. It's very popular in the body building community, because it's absorbed effectively and quickly by the body. Egg whites, Tuna, and white meat Chicken are also good and clean as others have stated. I believe Lobster is considered clean too, so that could be a treat.

It is really a deep subject that you can research a lot, and I am by no means an expert. But these are the basic cornerstones in my experience to get some results.

[Lissa]

3. Not sure what your interests in the Navy would be, but if you can get into the nuclear propulsion ratings you will expand on your initial engineering degree with practical experience. This should enable you to earn most of engineering degree while on Active Duty. Save your tuition savings plan for the Master's Degree. B)

Occhi

One thing to note on this, this is probably they hardest area to get into in the Navy. If you get in, you're pretty much set. Realize this as well, the Nuke school has a 70% (80%?) failure rate so if you don't make it, don't be to hard on yourself as I know former Navy ROTC that got their degrees in Nuclear Engineering (did very well in their Nuke classes) and failed out of the school (and we were taught by some of the best Nuclear Profs in civilian life).

[Occhidiangela]

One thing to note on this, this is probably they hardest area to get into in the Navy. If you get in, you're pretty much set. Realize this as well, the Nuke school has a 70% (80%?) failure rate so if you don't make it, don't be to hard on yourself as I know former Navy ROTC that got their degrees in Nuclear Engineering (did very well in their Nuke classes) and failed out of the school (and we were taught by some of the best Nuclear Profs in civilian life).

How recent is this metric? Are you talking officer training or enlisted training, or both?

Out of just under 100 of my classmates who went nuke power from the Naval Academy, about two dozen didn't make the cut. Of course, this was 20+ years ago. The Navy has been, for some years, attempting to improve their screening processes so that attrition rates from training are lower than what you cited.

Put a different way, what's your source?

As a point of reference, Navy flight training attrition (once one got through the screening gates) from all causes for about a 4 year period (2001-2005) from all causes ran in the 15-25 percent range. That included medical, performance, and quitting as inputs.

Occhi

[Lissa]

How recent is this metric? Are you talking officer training or enlisted training, or both?

Out of just under 100 of my classmates who went nuke power from the Naval Academy, about two dozen didn't make the cut. Of course, this was 20+ years ago. The Navy has been, for some years, attempting to improve their screening processes so that attrition rates from training are lower than what you cited.

Put a different way, what's your source?

As a point of reference, Navy flight training attrition (once one got through the screening gates) from all causes for about a 4 year period (2001-2005) from all causes ran in the 15-25 percent range. That included medical, performance, and quitting as inputs.

Occhi

This was about 8 to 10 years ago. And this was for the school as a whole, both enlisted and officer. I did check in to it as well as the Navy kept sending me flyers to join right after I got my degree and from all sources within the Navy I was hearing what I quoted.

[Occhidiangela]

This was about 8 to 10 years ago. And this was for the school as a whole, both enlisted and officer. I did check in to it as well as the Navy kept sending me flyers to join right after I got my degree and from all sources within the Navy I was hearing what I quoted.

Depending on what the "measuring point" is for the failure rate, like Boot Camp or first day in ROTC or OCS, I can see how the winnowing down would occur. Good to know the Nuke program still has excruciatingly high standards. That is a good thing. :D

Occhi

[Lissa]

Depending on what the "measuring point" is for the failure rate, like Boot Camp or first day in ROTC or OCS, I can see how the winnowing down would occur. Good to know the Nuke program still has excruciatingly high standards. That is a good thing. :D

Occhi

The failure rate may have decreased now as well considering that when I got those numbers the Navy was in a draw down, as you well know, so they may have made things more difficult then because there were less Boomers and Fast Attack out there and a lot of the aging CGNs were being replaced with non-nuclear CGs without a serious decrease in the number of Nuke people. I can't remember off the top of my head, but didn't they also mothball 5 CVNs? Seem to remember during DS 1 there were 12 CVNs and last I heard there were only 7 CVNs operating.

[Bam-Bam]

The failure rate may have decreased now as well considering that when I got those numbers the Navy was in a draw down, as you well know, so they may have made things more difficult then because there were less Boomers and Fast Attack out there and a lot of the aging CGNs were being replaced with non-nuclear CGs without a serious decrease in the number of Nuke people. I can't remember off the top of my head, but didn't they also mothball 5 CVNs? Seem to remember during DS 1 there were 12 CVNs and last I heard there were only 7 CVNs operating.

Your information is incorrect. There are currently ten commissioned CVNs, including USS ENTERPRISE (CVN 65) and nine USS NIMITZ (CVN 68) Class ships. The tenth and last NIMITZ Class ship (GEORGE H. W. BUSH (CVN 77)) is under construction, to be commissioned in late 2008/early 2009. The first of the next class of CVNs is scheduled to be delivered in 2015. The second ship of the class is scheduled to be delivered in 2018 or 2019, at which point all US aircraft carriers will be nuclear powered (CVN 79 replaces USS JOHN F. KENNEDY (CV 67)).

[Lissa]

Your information is incorrect. There are currently ten commissioned CVNs, including USS ENTERPRISE (CVN 65) and nine USS NIMITZ (CVN 68) Class ships. The tenth and last NIMITZ Class ship (GEORGE H. W. BUSH (CVN 77)) is under construction, to be commissioned in late 2008/early 2009. The first of the next class of CVNs is scheduled to be delivered in 2015. The second ship of the class is scheduled to be delivered in 2018 or 2019, at which point all US aircraft carriers will be nuclear powered (CVN 79 replaces USS JOHN F. KENNEDY (CV 67)).

Mothball does not mean they're not commissioned, it means they are sitting at pier in status of where they can be quickly called up to duty if needed (minor maintenance throughout the ship to bring it up to speed). I don't doubt that we have that many CVNs commissioned, I'm talking about in actual operations (one of the big things during Afghanistan was the fact that one of the carriers was stuck at sea longer than normal because 2 of the Pacific Carriers were in for maintenance and it was than that I heard that there were 7 CVNs in operation, including those in port for maintenance).

[Bam-Bam]

Mothball does not mean they're not commissioned, it means they are sitting at pier in status of where they can be quickly called up to duty if needed (minor maintenance throughout the ship to bring it up to speed). I don't doubt that we have that many CVNs commissioned, I'm talking about in actual operations (one of the big things during Afghanistan was the fact that one of the carriers was stuck at sea longer than normal because 2 of the Pacific Carriers were in for maintenance and it was than that I heard that there were 7 CVNs in operation, including those in port for maintenance).

"Mothball" is a term reserved for a ship that is sitting at the pier rusting, not one that is in either a maintenance availability, in a pierside ready surge status, or working up to deployment (training period where the battle group and the carrier's embarked airwing work together before deploying). Calling one of our current commissioned aircraft carriers "mothballed" would get a few sailors' ire.;)

Around PG1 we actually had 15 carriers commissioned--that ~used to be the number stated as the requirement needed to meet the DoD warfighting requirements. That number has dropped to 12 since around 1996. Part of that is due to the cost of keeping 15 carriers around, but more of it is due to the cost of having 15 airwings--the Navy's running about 10ish now, IIRC. Been a few since I was actively working with the air planners, so I may be off by one or two airwings.

And during DS1, six carrier battle groups were deployed in the Persian Gulf/Red Sea.

[Drasca]

I'm a US Sailor! I'm going to have to follow the president's orders now. Fortunately we're about to have a new pres:)My ship date's in Feb 07, so I'll be fit by then. So Lurkers, I'll be gone come Feb next year!

[Lissa]

I'm a US Sailor! I'm going to have to follow the president's orders now. Fortunately we're about to have a new pres:)My ship date's in Feb 07, so I'll be fit by then. So Lurkers, I'll be gone come Feb next year!

What MOS are you trying for or have they set that as yet?

[Drasca]

What MOS are you trying for or have they set that as yet?

Navy Program: Advanced Electronics (Computer) Field. I'll likely be a Electronics Tech or performing Fire Control.

However, within a month or two, a waiver will be submitted and processed and if it is accepted, I may be going into the Nuclear Program and its training pipeline. Depends on their bureacracy's security screening and desire for skilled Nuke techs (usually high, since the turnover is so high due to private industry grabbing potential re-enlisters). Don't know whether I'll get in or not though.

Still lots of fitness to do, but the majority of the pain is over. The 'mass'? security interview is somewhat intimidating, as I usually expect interrogation, but mostly this is out of my control, so my concern is limited.

I would prefer the Nuclear training pipeline, but either way (as a nuke tech below deck, or surface ET) I'll be finishing my engineering degree sooner or later, and trying to get as much education possible during and after. I might even find:wub:along the... nah. I'll try not worry or hope for anything frivolous.

I am a US sailor! Hooray!

[Lissa]

Navy Program: Advanced Electronics (Computer) Field. I'll likely be a Electronics Tech or performing Fire Control.

However, within a month or two, a waiver will be submitted and processed and if it is accepted, I may be going into the Nuclear Program and its training pipeline. Depends on their bureacracy's security screening and desire for skilled Nuke techs (usually high, since the turnover is so high due to private industry grabbing potential re-enlisters). Don't know whether I'll get in or not though.

That's because Nuclear Engineering programs are dying all over the country at various Universities. Just to give you an idea, when at the start of my senior year in High School, almost 20 years ago, the Pac 10 had 7 Nuclear Engineering programs. At the end of my senior year, there were only 3, the UW program, UCLA program, ASU program, and the WSU program all closed down. As of just under 10 years ago, only two undergraduate programs still existed in the Pac 10, Oregon and Cal, Arizona closed their program, around 2002, Arizona closed their Masters program, and the Board of Regents has ordered the closing of the Doctoral program this year.

There are still some schools out there that have Nuclear Engineering programs, but they are dwindling.

Still lots of fitness to do, but the majority of the pain is over. The 'mass'? security interview is somewhat intimidating, as I usually expect interrogation, but mostly this is out of my control, so my concern is limited.

I would prefer the Nuclear training pipeline, but either way (as a nuke tech below deck, or surface ET) I'll be finishing my engineering degree sooner or later, and trying to get as much education possible during and after. I might even find:wub:along the... nah. I'll try not worry or hope for anything frivolous.

I am a US sailor! Hooray!

Here's something you may see once you get on ship and become a nuke tech. Something that is routinely done in the reactor room is called "sweeping". What is done is the reactor crew run brooms down the length of pipes using the bristles. What they're doing is looking for pinhole leaks. The pressure of the steam coming through those leaks (you can't see the steam because the jet is so small) can cut through flesh with ease.

[Drasca]

There are still some schools out there that have Nuclear Engineering programs, but they are dwindling.

Wow, didn't really know the west coast universities were so against the nuclear programs. Maybe this is an east coast / west coast thing? I'm not familiar with that many over here in PA, but Penn State definitely offered one (also their chemical engineering program had a nuclear option), CMU and University of Pitt offer nuclear progs too iirc.

A week ago, Westinghouse just offered a full page ad in my local newspaper showing off they're building / operating a new nuclear facility in PA, and requesting employee applicants. There just doesn't seem to be as much uproar here, even though the level of overall knowledge about nuclear reactors is pretty low. The recruits down at my Pittsburgh MEP center were all friendly and excited for the nuke applicants too.

Edit: Wikipedia says there's about 5 commissioned nuclear reactors in PA (plus 2 decommissioned), Penn state has a nuke research reactor too, so Pennsylvania's a special comparatively Pro-nuclear power case. We've got more homer simpsons than the average state;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nucle...ates_of_America

[Occhidiangela]

"Mothball" is a term reserved for a ship that is sitting at the pier rusting, not one that is in either a maintenance availability, in a pierside ready surge status, or working up to deployment (training period where the battle group and the carrier's embarked airwing work together before deploying). Calling one of our current commissioned aircraft carriers "mothballed" would get a few sailors' ire.;)

Around PG1 we actually had 15 carriers commissioned--that ~used to be the number stated as the requirement needed to meet the DoD warfighting requirements. That number has dropped to 12 since around 1996. Part of that is due to the cost of keeping 15 carriers around, but more of it is due to the cost of having 15 airwings--the Navy's running about 10ish now, IIRC. Been a few since I was actively working with the air planners, so I may be off by one or two airwings.

And during DS1, six carrier battle groups were deployed in the Persian Gulf/Red Sea.

FWIW:

Lissa was confusing the CV's and the CVN's, I think.

The Navy has "mothballed" or decomissioned a number of the CV's over the past 10 years:(Ranger, Independence, Midway, America, and Constellation), which are run by DFM/petroleum fired steam turbine power plants. I think the Kennedy is one of the last CV's left. She was in the Gulf when I was over there a few years ago, and as I understand it, the decomissioning of it (which the Navy wants due to its high up keep costs) has run into some political snags. USS Kitty Hawk CV 63 is in Japan, and is due to be relieved by a CVN in 2008. Or, so the story went a few months ago.

Occhi

[Bam-Bam]

That's because Nuclear Engineering programs are dying all over the country at various Universities. Just to give you an idea, when at the start of my senior year in High School, almost 20 years ago, the Pac 10 had 7 Nuclear Engineering programs. At the end of my senior year, there were only 3, the UW program, UCLA program, ASU program, and the WSU program all closed down. As of just under 10 years ago, only two undergraduate programs still existed in the Pac 10, Oregon and Cal, Arizona closed their program, around 2002, Arizona closed their Masters program, and the Board of Regents has ordered the closing of the Doctoral program this year.

There are still some schools out there that have Nuclear Engineering programs, but they are dwindling.
Here's something you may see once you get on ship and become a nuke tech. Something that is routinely done in the reactor room is called "sweeping". What is done is the reactor crew run brooms down the length of pipes using the bristles. What they're doing is looking for pinhole leaks. The pressure of the steam coming through those leaks (you can't see the steam because the jet is so small) can cut through flesh with ease.

You are not likely to see that on any Navy nuclear powered ship. In fact, more than not likely.

[Lissa]

You are not likely to see that on any Navy nuclear powered ship. In fact, more than not likely.

Could be now, the person that told me this was former Navy Nuke, but he served in the 70s and early 80s. He was one of my professors when I was working on my degree in the early 90s.