Druid Builds

[Kevin]

Some Background
Some of you know my playstyle pretty well and know that I really seem to be drawn to hybrids and hybrid playstyles and that I'm very happy "filling in the gap" as any raid leader with me around knows.

Me: "I can take my druid, my warrior, or my paladin"
RL: "Yes but which do you want to play?"
Me: "Umm I don't know, aren't you lacking in some area?"
RL: "No, I could use any of them."
Me: "Umm are you sure?"
RL: "You're logged onto your XXXX, right now, that's what I'm taking."
Me: "OK"

I don't feel the need to be the best at anything with a class but I do want to be able to do it well enough to not feel I'm a detriment to the raid/group. While my warrior grew up prot, he's 31/5/15 now and it's a 15 that doesn't have full defiance, but does have some other keep me alive longer talents because aggro hasn't been the issue when I've needed to tank, survivability has been more key. My paladin grew up retribution/holy but when 1.9 made that spec impossible to recreate and in fact nerfed me on pretty much all fronts compared to 1.8 I went 31 holy / 20 protection for raid healing and to be really annoying in PvP. The paladin might get respeced again here a bit since I don't PvP with him anymore. I might pick up seal of command again to be able to deal a bit more damage and actually be a bit more hybrid. Note the theme I like to be strong, if not the strongest, at multiple roles and people seem to like me being able to do that too.

So what about the druid?
I grew up resto, was resto till 1.9 when I respec'd the paladin. Part of the reason I went full feral spec is so that I could be more hybrid though. At the time we weren't that deep in BWL (I think we had finally killed Vael), MC was still a bit of a challenge. I had and have good healing gear. I've got full Cenarion and several other of the ZG and other blue and purples that are better than Cenarion. I've got the stormrage hat. It's not the greatest druid healing gear, but it was good enough. I was definitely able to last through any of the fights in MC and heal them just fine as a feral. I didn't have any oh crap buttons and I was a pretty poor free for all healer on trash (still fine for single target healing on Trash). However since we really didn't need druids to heal on trash or even some of the bosses with 5 priests and 4 paladins (or more) on every run druids got to go play as kitties or moonkins if they wanted. Being feral spec meant I did a lot more damage when I was cat, it meant in ZG if we were short a warrior I could tank very well. It was very hybrid. Druid healing even without talents is very solid, but the caster and feral DPS isn't in my book they need talents to help them.

Recently though with the role my druid plays in raids I've wanted more healing longevity and some 'oh crap' buttons and a little more healing power. My healing isn't always feeling good enough to me. I'm getting asked to heal more and DPS less and I've been on runs that just didn't have enough healers but had I had some resto talents we might have had less isues. Resto druids now have 2 'oh crap' buttons if they go 31 deep thanks to the addition of swiftmen. I still feel I have plenty of healing oomph and more healing power really would just make 'oh craps' better or simply let me slide down another rank of healing touch, giving more longevity. So my thoughts have me leaning towards getting some points into resto. I'm also feeling that my feral gear isn't quite good enough to justify me being feral form all the time. Yes I have finished top 10 in total damage in MC when I've been feral the whole time (even for bosses) but my feral gear has not progressed as fast as other DPS classes (and even some of the other feral druids) but my healing gear is still as good or better than some of the other healers.

The builds
Current
Right now I'm 11/35/5. Omen of clarity, lots of feral talents and furor. I though about 11/33/7 to get improved enrage as well but anyway, I'm feral the talents point to damage and bear tanking.

Two leans to potential builds given all the background above. 1 would be mostly resto with some feral, likely cat focused. The other would be more feral with some resto goodies.

Mostly Feral
The Mostly Feral build is a 0 / 30 / 21 build. Basically I get deep enough in resto to get the two longevity talents, reflection and tranquil spirit, and grab that great "oh crap" button with nature's swiftness. I'll be happy to have the faster cast heals back too. I wouldn't mind natures focus but really I've only got 2 points to use for it so improved enrage is there so that bear tanking is more viable. No primal fury can be a detriment in a low rage environment. Improved enrage can help out with that some. But really I do more cat DPS than bear tanking anyway. Giving up leader of the pack gives up one of the big raid benefits of a feral druid though.

vs current build
I gain

• * Nature's Swiftness
  * Faster heals
  * Cheaper heals
  * More mana regen<>
  [st]I lose
  • * Leader of the pack
    * Primal fury - (no more swipe spam for free on 3 mobs when I crit)
    * Natural weapons
    * Omen of clarity (very under rated for what it can do for feral damage)
    * 400 - 600 armor in bear<>
    [st]
    Mostly resto
    The resto/feral build is a 0 / 20 / 31 build. It picks up swift mend and a few things to augment swiftmend as well. But it gives up more on the feral side. Feral focuses on cat damage though I took feral instinct for the extra aggro not for the prowl bonus (I'm a night elf and I rarely have issues with being seen while prowling). Swiftmend is a nice "oh crap" button. Improved rejuv is there because of how swiftmend works, I want the rejuvs stronger. I grabbed the "don't stutter me!" talent for a couple of reasons, it's nice in BWL and AQ40 in those places where you have to deal with AoE's that stutter or trash that can get loose and stutter you. There are a few variations that can happen on this build, but the questions will come later.
    
    vs current build
    I gain
    • * Nature's Swiftness
      * Swiftmend
      * Faster heals
      * Cheaper heals
      * More mana regen
      * Less interrupt while healing
      * Stronger rejuvs<>
      [st]I lose
      • * Leader of the pack
        * Heart of the wild (about 1800 mana for me I think)
        * Primal fury - (no more swipe spam for free on 3 mobs when I crit)
        * Natural weapons
        * Omen of clarity (very under rated for what it can do for feral damage)
        * 400 - 600 armor in bear
        * Savage Fury
        * Feral Fire
        * 60 AP in bear and cat<>
        [st]
        The questions
        Either build
        I'm aware I lose damage in either build and gain healing in either build but I have some general questions. I'm also aware that I don't have improved Mark of the Wild, the utility of furor in solo and even in raids (if you have to pop out and heal for a bit then pop back into to feral it allows you more DPS) is something I don't want to give up. I'll continue to carry spare reagents and I'll continue to hand them to the druids who have improved mark since they are doing my job for me.
        
        1) Leader of the pack helps make feral druids more attractive to raids, is losing that talent to get some better healing and nature's swiftness for when I do heal worth it? Does it take swifmend to make it worth it in your opinion (i.e build one doesn't offer enough)?
        
        2) Do you think based on what I posted and what you may know about me from the game that either build will be 'hybrid' enough for me? Will it still let me feel that I can do at least 2 different jobs (maybe even 3) well enough or is too much feral power given up? Do ferals need to be so heavily feral to really be able to tank or DPS well enough end game?
        
        3) Improved Enrage worth it? The points are there to help unlock stuff later in the tree, but I could grab insect swarm or put them somewhere else, thoughts?
        
        4) Which build (with tweaks) do you think I might enjoy the most?
        
        Build 1 (more damage, less healing)
        This build looks like it will give up the least feral and actually give me the most longevity that you can get if you keep feral talents. Heart of the Wild adds a lot of mana and I pick up the best talents to keep mana in the tank in resto. But there are still some questions.
        
        1) No primal fury - Is this really shutting the door on bear tanking as hard as I think? Should I re-arrange to get it and if so, how?
        
        2) Feral Fire - It's a nice talent for several things but I could put that point somewhere else.
        
        
        Build 2 (more healing, less damage)
        First off the 2nd build has some room for variation. I could drop Nature's Focus (interrupt prevention) and get Gift of Nature (10% more base healing). Gift of Nature means stronger rejuvs and renews for the 'oh crap' swiftmend. However since it only works off base healing it doesn't scale with gear. Rank 4 healing Touch doesn't get enough +heal from it to matter (why rank 4? speed of cast) and I don't think it would be enough +healing for me to shift from rank 6 to rank 5 if I want to hit someone for ~ 1000 healing so I don't think it would help longevity that much.
        
        1) I've given a slight nod to bear tanking, that is the biggest reason for feral instinct, the extra aggro in bear that I figure I'll need if I attempt to bear tank without the deeper talents. However, the build is cat damage focused, and to that end I've thought about those 5 points in feral aggresion for a stronger ferocius bite since combo points still get dumped into that. My experiments in MC have shown that bite is still better for damage than rip even given the high armor of many of the mobs even when debuff slots aren't a concern. Though I admit the tests haven't been that extensive. 15% more bite damage isn't a lot either but if I just say, I heal or do cat DPS, it seems it might be a better choice for the points.
        
        2) I don't, and won't have the best rejuvs of the druids because while I have very good healing gear I don't imagine I'll have the best healing gear or beat out a full resto with imp rejuv and gift of nature. I needed 3 more points to dig down though. The question is, should I dump that and improved enrage and just get nature's grace? I don't improve rejuv as much but I do improve regrowth and healing touch a bit. I've not been a huge fan of gift of nature but it would help the swfitmend. Dropping improved rejuv would also mean that I'm not over writing a "better" rejuv and I figure any druid with the talent will actually have a more powerful rejuv than mine. I'd be open to persuasion on improved regrowth but I'm not a huge fan of that talent either since I don't use the spell much, but it critting ~60% of the time on the front end does help with mana inefficiency.
        
        3) is this build just better for a healer with a cat focus?
        
        

[Warlock]

I really like 30 Feral for Feral/Resto mixed builds - HOTW is a great talent for all roles. It's as if the extra ten feral talents come with five free restoration ones. You do lose Swiftmend, but your buffed rejuv can still set up for another Druid with that talent.

[Tuftears]

Well, I'm obviously very happy with my 31 resto/20 feral build. I think swiftmend is pretty darn awesome if you have enough +healing to make good use of it, which you probably do on Taranna.

For your 31/20 build, I'm curious why you put a point into Predatory Instincts. I put both points into Feline Swiftness instead; the speed is a great morale booster, and the 30 AP you get from Predatory Instincts is pretty small. I also put 2 points into Brutal Impact instead of Improved Shred, since I rarely use my cat for raid DPS, but the 3.5 secs Pounce is pretty nice for various situations around PVE instances and PVP.

I went with improved MOTW over your Improved Enrage and Rejuv. I've never really needed improved enrage - shift out, shift in, bam, 10 rage. Improved rejuv is based on your base rejuvenation amount, meaning you'll get 15% of 888 healing, or +133 healing on Rejuv only.

Otherwise than that, I think full feral (what you have now) is fairly worthwhile in limited numbers, like 2-3 to a raid, but you have to be pretty dedicated to working on your druid's feral side to make it work, since you're competing with 'real' tanks and 'real' rogues. It's not enough to be a LOTP totem these days, though that certainly helps raid DPS.

I guess the 30 feral/21 resto build is workable, it's much more hybrid in nature, but would put your druid after the 'primary' specs of resto or feral. I.E. a raid leader might look at the druids and say 'hm, I want 2 resto druids and 1 feral druid,' and unless the RL has faith in your healing from past experience, he might go by spec, if there are more druids than druid slots to be filled.

[Kevin]

Well, I'm obviously very happy with my 31 resto/20 feral build. I think swiftmend is pretty darn awesome if you have enough +healing to make good use of it, which you probably do on Taranna.

For your 31/20 build, I'm curious why you put a point into Predatory Instincts. I put both points into Feline Swiftness instead; the speed is a great morale booster, and the 30 AP you get from Predatory Instincts is pretty small. I also put 2 points into Brutal Impact instead of Improved Shred, since I rarely use my cat for raid DPS, but the 3.5 secs Pounce is pretty nice for various situations around PVE instances and PVP.

I went with improved MOTW over your Improved Enrage and Rejuv. I've never really needed improved enrage - shift out, shift in, bam, 10 rage. Improved rejuv is based on your base rejuvenation amount, meaning you'll get 15% of 888 healing, or +133 healing on Rejuv only.

Improved Enrage is a very much up in the air talent but two points had to go somewhere. Improved Rejuv as mentioned simply for a slight kick to swiftmend and as mentioned I've though about moving them + the 2 in improved enrage around. I thought about improved Mark, but if I move them even though as I mentioned i know that any +healing talent only works on the base skill I'd put them in Gift of Nature over improved Mark. I've yet to be on a raid where some druid doesn't have imp mark and I'm more than glad to give the reagents. All 2 druids with imp mark does is speed up buffing and really that only matters much if there are no mages to give free water. Otherwise one druid who just rebuffed sitting and drinking for the start of a pull generally doesn't matter at all.

30 AP = more damage when cat or bear. Yeah 2 DPS is not much, but I don't get a DPS boost from feline swiftness. I don't really PvP, and pounce isn't all that helpful solo and pointless in raids where it will still be shorter than other stuns people could apply but yet would still muck with diminishing returns. Improved shred is the single biggest DPS addition for a cat in a raid situation. If I'm not healing I want to do as much damage as possible, which means shred the buggers, especially if you aren't deep enough for savage fury.

Otherwise than that, I think full feral (what you have now) is fairly worthwhile in limited numbers, like 2-3 to a raid, but you have to be pretty dedicated to working on your druid's feral side to make it work, since you're competing with 'real' tanks and 'real' rogues. It's not enough to be a LOTP totem these days, though that certainly helps raid DPS.

I guess the 30 feral/21 resto build is workable, it's much more hybrid in nature, but would put your druid after the 'primary' specs of resto or feral. I.E. a raid leader might look at the druids and say 'hm, I want 2 resto druids and 1 feral druid,' and unless the RL has faith in your healing from past experience, he might go by spec, if there are more druids than druid slots to be filled.

Right I don't see me keeping up her feral gearing with the pace the raids move. However I actually think that of the two builds, in any sort of prolonged engagement, that the 30 feral/21 resto would out heal my the 31 resto / 20 feral. Unless you get both gift of nature and improved rejuv along with the other talents in resto the only thing I'm giving up is swiftmend, which I'm still looking at as an 'oh crap' button. Is that the mistake? Is swiftmend used more than just a rapid kick heal and used efficently? Are our druids actually waiting till just before the last tick of a HoT and kicking swiftmend off? That mana cost just makes it feel like it's only an 'oh crap'.

And yeah I know some of raid leaders don't realize that even as a full feral back before people had T2 gear I took some of the healing assignments that required having solid healing stamina and did just fine, but eh. I'd actually consider myself more a healing druid with that build than a feral druid. It would just be that if I needed or had the chance to go feral that I would still have a significant advantage on even the 20 point build.

[Tuftears]

Is swiftmend used more than just a rapid kick heal and used efficently? Are our druids actually waiting till just before the last tick of a HoT and kicking swiftmend off? That mana cost just makes it feel like it's only an 'oh crap'.

I don't know about other druids, but I have been using this a lot, in both forms. That is, I use it in both the 'omg heal now' form (rejuv, swiftmend) and the 'rejuv now, count ten, swiftmend later' form.

Let's give an example, I was solo-healing a 4-man stealth group taking down Mor Grayhoof, the summonable tier 0.5 boss. He calls up a hurricane that does some pretty nasty DOTs to those standing in its effect. I threw rejuvenation on the rogue, another one on the bear tank, did a healing touch; by that time, the rogue was down to about 1/3rd life, so I hit swiftmend on the rogue. Bam! Near-full.

It's not quite as mana-efficient as pure Healing Touches rank 3 and 4, but it gets the druid a lot closer to being able to cover the bases like a priest can.

I'd say swiftmend is the talent of druids who enjoy the healing game, since you have to think about it pretty consciously. It's also quite useful for PVPing druids.

[Kevin]

I don't know about other druids, but I have been using this a lot, in both forms. That is, I use it in both the 'omg heal now' form (rejuv, swiftmend) and the 'rejuv now, count ten, swiftmend later' form.

Let's give an example, I was solo-healing a 4-man stealth group taking down Mor Grayhoof, the summonable tier 0.5 boss. He calls up a hurricane that does some pretty nasty DOTs to those standing in its effect. I threw rejuvenation on the rogue, another one on the bear tank, did a healing touch; by that time, the rogue was down to about 1/3rd life, so I hit swiftmend on the rogue. Bam! Near-full.

It's not quite as mana-efficient as pure Healing Touches rank 3 and 4, but it gets the druid a lot closer to being able to cover the bases like a priest can.

I'd say swiftmend is the talent of druids who enjoy the healing game, since you have to think about it pretty consciously. It's also quite useful for PVPing druids.

Thanks for the feedback! This (and some of the stuff I got from Voiceman in an in game chat) is some of what I'm looking for here.

I've imagined it could be a very nice talent not only for 'oh, crap' but also for FFA healing (be that in a 5 man where you are solo healing or in a raid).

I think what complicates it for me is that I look at my paladin as my pure healer now. It's not an easy task to boost paladin DPS. Even people who understand that paladins can tank generally don't feel they want to deal with some of the extra down time that can come with a pally tank vs a druid or a warrior. So really that toon is pretty much going to be a healer and as mentioned I'm seriously considering a respec to make him a better buff bot since he likely will only be healing and buffing and I can't really spec him to be any better of a healer than he is now.

Also while I did say that I do want to improve my healing abilities what has me still not being able to answer the swiftmend or no swiftmend question is how much healing do I want to do. If I get swiftmend I can't even pretend to be anything but a healer because even though it may not be a lot 10 more points in feral over just the base 20 can easily be a 20% DPS increase. Sure the DPS may not be huge but those 10 talent points are enough to make up for several pieces of gear, etc. And taking out natural weapons and omen of clarity like I will be is another very noticable drop in DPS.

I think maybe, what I'm looking for, that this discussion has brought to light, is to make my druid as good of a healer as my paladin again for when I want to or need to heal with her. Right now she isn't. The paladin is a better healer than the druid because of how they are spec'd both have a very similar 'level' of gearing so that isn't where the difference lies. I think I want to boost healing enough to get back up to my paladins level. I think that getting the faster heals, the cheaper heals, better use out of my spirit, and natures swiftness will do that. Of course that may make me retire my paladin but Blizzard just hasn't figured that class out. The other thing of course that getting some healing talents will do is make healing more effective playing a hybrid role which I've often been lucky enough to get to do.

I'm glad to hear that swifmend is as good as I was hoping it would be when it was announced, that it really does make a druid a better healer (where innnervate just made the raid healing better not the druids healing).

I suppose I should just farm up even more gold (I still don't have her epic mount yet though) and test both builds out. But since I don't have a lot of money on Stormrage right now and I am saving for the epic mount I keep discussing the question instead of just testing it. :)

Ah well I'll keep thinking about it. :)

[Lok]

I am thinking about trying this 25 balance, 26 resto build out now. I like druid alot, and have done the resto thing early on, and had fun with full feral, and more recently dabbled in the 40/11 oomkin build.

Rarely in group situations am I called upon to DPS. Most of the time there is someone else who is better geared to DPS, and they want buffs and healing. For PvP they want things rooted, or they want me to run.

My problem with feral builds is the gear you need to wear to make them work is not gear that works for healing, and you tend to have a small mana pool which means you are SOL when you must heal.

WIth my oomkin build I discovered how cool the +healing and damage stuff is. It works both on your wrath and your healing. The problem with the oomkin style though is if you are in a situation where you are taking advantage of your AC from oomkin, odds are your lower than bear HP total is going to make you need to heal, and if you cant root, you take a pounding when you deform. Or you are in a situation where other people have to heal the druid. I think it is better then to approach it from the standpoint that bear is a bail out move, and you should be slippery, avoiding close combat.

So the 25/26 spec would give me solid wrath spam and moonfire, but also reasonable healing ability.

[Kevin]

I am thinking about trying this 25 balance, 26 resto build out now. I like druid alot, and have done the resto thing early on, and had fun with full feral, and more recently dabbled in the 40/11 oomkin build.

Rarely in group situations am I called upon to DPS. Most of the time there is someone else who is better geared to DPS, and they want buffs and healing. For PvP they want things rooted, or they want me to run.

My problem with feral builds is the gear you need to wear to make them work is not gear that works for healing, and you tend to have a small mana pool which means you are SOL when you must heal.

WIth my oomkin build I discovered how cool the +healing and damage stuff is. It works both on your wrath and your healing. The problem with the oomkin style though is if you are in a situation where you are taking advantage of your AC from oomkin, odds are your lower than bear HP total is going to make you need to heal, and if you cant root, you take a pounding when you deform. Or you are in a situation where other people have to heal the druid. I think it is better then to approach it from the standpoint that bear is a bail out move, and you should be slippery, avoiding close combat.

So the 25/26 spec would give me solid wrath spam and moonfire, but also reasonable healing ability.

A spec like that is what I mentioned might be the longest lasting healing spec any druid could have. 19% cost reduction on your heals is pretty impressive.

You still have to answer the wrath vs Nature's grasp question based on how you play, and I've seen the build go for even better rooting and if the person raids a lot improved thorns (yes improved thorns, especially with the 3 piece Cenarion bonus does make a difference in aggro generation for a tank 18 vs 38.5 damage returned). But in a battle of which druid can heal the longest, you're build should win over any other since you'll have the same regen and the cheapest heals with nearly the same healing power as a swiftmend druid will have so you'll be able to rank hop just the same. I'm not sure if it's the 30 feral 21 resto will out last a deep resto because the heals will be slightly weaker without the two talents that boost the healing so in theory that build will have to cast more heals but will also have a significantly larger mana pool.

I didn't really consider the spec you mentioned because what I end up doing is very different from what you end up doing. But I want some more longevity on my healing, I'm just not sure how much feral power I'm willing to give up for it yet. :)

[Lok]

Well, time passes and my ideas on what a good build might be change. Right now I am considering 27 balance, 13 feral, 11 resto . I am presently a 55 tauren druid on a PvP server where alliance grossly outnumbers us. It looks like I will not be doing much raiding in the near future, since I mainly play this guy when my 7yr old son can play (he is a 54 shaman). So I anticipate a gaming diet of 5-mans running the instances punctuated by BG's. My reasoning behind this build is

-I saw a video for 29/11/11 and the guy did a tolerable job getting regrowths off by using either bash, feral charge, or warstomp + cheetah to get distance then heal. So having feral charge and improved bash look good, particularly if I am to dump Moonkin form.

-I think another bit of DPS like the DOT portion of moonfire in the form of insect swarm might be the extra bit off oomph I need to drop guys in PvP at range.

-I don't use improved starfire. I did like starfire before I got my last rank of wrath, but now it seems like it stinks with low output. I hear Moonfury is lame presently, only upping 10% of the base damage (before equipment adders), so 27 points can pretty much top out the performance of wrath, moonfire and still get you reach, shapeshifter, moonglow with 65% chance to natures grasp. While I wont be the most efficient healer, I will be OK with decent +heal gear and moonglow.

-If I go 13 feral, I can get defensive bear stuff (imp demo roar, impact + 3 in thick hide, feral charge) and still squeeze in 2 points into faster cats for scouting PvP stuff. There is no improved stealth in this build, but I suppose I could move 3 from thick hide to there if necessary.

So the build appeals to me because I can go bear for interrupts and defense if needed, or pop the burst DPS at range or root long range, or double dot.

How important is improved Starfire for PvP?
Is 65% grasp enough?
Do you agree that survival bear is best served by feral aggression?
How do you think this would play out?

[Watto44]

Given that I've quit raiding and have never played with you, I can't really offer that much useful feedback, apart from this.

1) No primal fury - Is this really shutting the door on bear tanking as hard as I think? Should I re-arrange to get it and if so, how?

I doubt it will have much affect at all. Personally, I run with primal fury but without ferocity and manage fine, although it does take a little more rage management for regular fights. If you're anything like me you won't notice it except for early in a fight, when things are easily managable with a decent group. For single target tanking it won't change a thing.

I recently respecced from a 14-32-5 build to a 0-30-21 build and I'm not at all impressed. The improvements to my healing are definately noticable, but not that noticable. However, I'm finding the lost balance and feral talents very noticable and I miss them just about everytime I line up against an alliance player. As soon as my little shaman has an extra 200 odd gold I'm following my heart and respeccing Tregor.:)

[Watto44]

Bah, apologies for posting twice in a row. Anyways...

How important is improved Starfire for PvP?
Is 65% grasp enough?
Do you agree that survival bear is best served by feral aggression?
How do you think this would play out?

I'm not, nor have I ever been, a balance druid, so this is all pure speculation. But here's my two cents anyway.:)

- Starfire is great, but it's primarily an opener. Given that nature damage is less likely to break roots - based on anecdotal evidence gathered in my time playing a druid:)- two wraths is always going to be my choice over one starfire, unless I can make that starfire BIG through trinkets.

- 65% grasp really is a toss-up that depends on your playstyle. Some people can live without it altogether, and some people go crazy unless it's a guaranteed proc. What it comes down to is how you are using it. After adjusting your playstyle you can probably live with only 35% if you are using it defensively. (I doubt this has to be said, bust just in case: if you're doing that, cast it nice and early.:))

If you're using it to get free casts of starfire/wrath I would be inclined to max it out. The reasoning behind this is that you're relying on DPS to win fights if that's how you're playing, not defense. If that's the case, then 100% grasp lets you control the fight that much more, which will be key.

- Feral aggression or ferocity? Personally I would go with ferocity looking at your build, but that's probably due to my playstyle. More mauls while in bear form equals a shorter fight.

I would probably change a couple of things in your build. Firstly, I would take the two points out of feline swiftness and put them into balance somewhere. A faster cat isn't really going to be a big advantage to your balance druid.

I would also reconsider moonfury and natural shapeshifter. Moonfury is a talent that's going to look better and better as you're +damage improves, while natural shapeshifter is going to become less useful as your mana pool increases.

My version of you're build would look like this, with points from improved roots moved to improved grasp depending on how you're going to use grasp.:)

[Lok]

Oh I am so fickle. I hit 60 last night, and had been contemplating partial feral builds. But I think what I need right now is a build that raids well and can solo OK. I need to grind stuff and run PUGs for Tier0, and most of the grinding I do with an enhancement shaman, so standoff nukes and heals work nicely there. So I returned to efficient heals (moonglow/nature's swiftness), but this time skewed it balance. I leveled up in balance, and like it alot. I have a 60 war so tanking is not something I am up for doing much of on this char. So I came up with this variant on the 30 balance, 21 resto standard.

In balance I get optimal starfire and wrath with grace and vengeance 5. I skip moonfury which applies 10% to base (not after +dmg stuff). With this allocation for nukes you have 6 points left to spend. Right now I went 1 into base grasp (defensive use only), 3 into improved thorns, and 2 into reach. I figure people like their thorns buff and I am seeing how painful it is on a PvP server going without natural shapeshifter.

On the resto side I toyed around with a lot of stuff, and finally decided to max improved mark, improved HT, nature's focus, and tranquil spirit. Running the numbers on reflection for my spirit, I came up with about 5-6mana/s which did not seem to justify reflection. I was not too impressed with insect swarm...just more mana for a marginal DoT. I couldnt really add it to my grind routine with any hope of efficiency, and for raiding the debuff value is marginal. I considered subtlety, but most of my aggro issues seem to center not on relative threat levels of me v. tank, but on the fact that someone forgot to pick up a loose one who went to me on the first heal. Maybe if I start raiding a lot in places like BWL it might be worth going for that instead.

The whole wrath/starfire thing makes me want them both. Good point on wrath not breaking roots. My problem is I have to fight/grind a lot of elemental stuff, all of which seems to be immune to nature, which means if all of my DPS is from nuking I have to have a backup damage type = arcane. Many times I will starfire while duoing with the shaman simply because I like the big numbers. Starfire gets more return off of grace than wrath too. My solo sequence for balance grind is something like wrath, wrath, root, back off to 30-36yds (look for when hibernate grays but still in range for wrath), then wrath a few more and moonfire at about 1K HP then melee. This keeps it rooted the longest, and lets me begin the out of 5s casting mana regen during the mop up...a few staff hits supplemented by thorns and moonfire at the end works fine, and the damage I take seems to come back by the next pull.

For the shaman I'll moonfire then wrath to about 1K hp, and let the shaman finish it. If I am chain pulling, Ill moonfire pull then root it, then go get another while the shaman takes out the rooted one. If I do it like this, I can go 1 bar, innervate, another bar, drink, repeat. With the long range of reach, I really complement the shaman nicely since he has slow lightning bolts which suck up mana or short range shocks as pulls.

If I am in a contested area, what is fun is to let the shaman grind while I hang out in cat form stealthed, tracking humanoids. Then when that decked out guy decides to gank the shaman, he gets a nasty stealth nuker surprise. My only annoyance here is I find myself wishing for fast prowl....I had fast prowl on my feral druid before, and I really liked it alot. Anyway the stealth kitty nuker thing annoys the crap out of them, and we have driven guys off of spawns until they can waaaaambulance up a crew of 5 allies to come gank us off the spot.

As far as dungeon raiding goes, this spec has been working out just fine. The efficiency of moonglow and tranquil spirit work out great. My problem healing with this spec is no real quick heal short of natures swiftness. I find myself having to rejuv to take the edge off of how fast they plummet in life total, and then this lets me land those big HT's. If all the lifebars are ok and I have a lot of mana, I can just drop a few starfires or wraths without having to swap gear and supplement DPS. This spec seems to work nicely along side a priest who can flash heal guys who are rapidly plummeting. I can see where swiftmend might be a huge plus for PvP healing or serving as the sole healer though. I am still in learning mode for raid healing though, and have to remember to bear or barkskin if I am in trouble, and look to priest mana bars to see who needs the innervate. Wrath is more burst DPS for raids, but drains my mana out more. Starfire is more mana efficient and the 3s stun proc does seem to give the tank a bit of relief when it happens. What makes starfire so mana efficient is the long cast means it will cancel if it dies before you complete the cast, so mana isnt really wasted. Wraths with grace roll off in a rapid stream and it is easy to wrath one time too many.

For PvP I am more of a support role. Healing, shifting to run from stuff, or rooting, or maybe lighting that rogue up with faerie fire. I am sure having bear charge and improved bear stun would be amazing, but you have to give up something somewhere. I need to do more of it to see if only base grasp is enough. On the wrath/starfire question, I like to open with starfire from stealth. It is a big hit early and can stun, and it can be devastating particularly if they did not calculate me in the equation as they are fighting someone else. It is also nice doing this spam from behind a tree, since there is no visible sign of origin. Wrath is fast cast and great for the quick beatdown on a rooted foe.

Gear wise I have feralheart belt, gloves, wrist and no other tier 0. The rest of my stuff is +dmg/healing gear, and I am around +165 dmg/heal- not spectacular, but enough to do the usual 5-10 man dungeons. I have been squirreling away feral pieces for maybe a future try at a blend between healing/feral or maybe balance/feral.

[PapaSmurf]

With the idea that I'd like Dunar to become primarily a healer (Duhar which is progressing quickly to 60 will be my DPS) I have been playing around with re-specing to accomodate this change. I have thus come up with this build.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classe...505103105314000

The goal of this build was to maximize mana efficiency/utilization for the purposes of healing. Thus the heavy investment into the balance tree to get moonglow. It's a different build than I've typically seen and I wanted your opinions to the tradoffs between this build and going for hotw to maximize my mana pool or much heavier resto investment.

P.S. looks like this build is very similar to Lok's 25 balance 26 resto build he describes earlier. Sorry about the repeat post.

[VoiceMan]

Well, it is a very interesting build you have going there. To be honest, I'm not sure if all the points required in the Balance tree to obtain Moonglow is worth it. While I do like the idea of combining Moonglow with Tranquil Spirit, I'm uncertain as to it's effectiveness. I guess alot of it depends on what type of healing you'll do. For raid healing, particularly boss fights, longevity is important. But for shorter encounters, mana effeciency is less of a concern due to the chance to drink between pulls. I also think this particular build might really limit what you can do. You'll be stuck primarly healing. One of the things I enjoy about Fazuul is the ability to be the main tank main healer in MC, Onyxia, ZG and AQ20, and yet still be able to swap out some pieces of gear and tank Mar'Li in ZG, or Domo in MC. If you go balance/resto, your feral abilities will be gimped to the extent you may feel limited. However, having said that, I've never tried this build, so I honestly don't know.
Having recently specced out of Resto some points.....and going back deep enough into the Feral tree to get back Heart of the Wild, I have a few thoughts. I like my bigger mana pool due to HoTW...but I think a bigger impact a druid healer has on his longevity is his gear and mana per 5, and even spirit. Fazuul can get up to 374 spirit if he puts on all the right gear and can get a Divine Spirit buff from a priest. I found it to be pretty effective, but I also use trinkets and gear that provide mp5 for some longer fights. Another thing to consider when it comes to mana effeciency, is how much +healing you have. I wish Fazuul had more...I think the most I can get is around +380 or so. But, it allows me to rank down a couple of steps on my Healing Touch to conserve mana. My target Healing Touch heal on a good tank is 2000. I can do that with Fazuul with Healing Touch Rank 9, as it seems to average 2100. Rank 8 averages about 1850 it seems. Rank 9 costs me 540 mana. With Gift of Wild and Arcane Brilliance I start with over 7200 mana with my current build and gear. I rarely run out of mana unless I'm solo healing an under-geared tank in MC, and even then I can last a long time. I used to have 31 points in Resto, and had all the goodies for healing specced in, but now that I've got 30 in Feral, and 21 in Resto, I don't really feel gimped. Now I make a better tank, but am still able to be the main healer for a run.
To be a serious healer-only type of druid, this may work well. But again, I think alot of that has to do with how you heal. I personally don't use Regrowth much unless I'm keeping mages alive in AoE situations, and then I stack both my HoT's on them. I sometimes will stack both on the tank, but only if he's bleeding unpredictably. Most of the tanks I heal don't take alot of spiky damage, so it's pretty easy to keep them under control with just Healing Touch and the occasional rejuv.
So again, I'm unsure how it would feel to have this build. If you like to heal using Regrowth, then I think points in Imp Regrowth would be very useful. Sublety is another place points can go. I personally don't think much of Sublety, I only have trouble with healer aggro when I'm behind a bad tank. But, it may have a more constant benefit to you, even if not always seen than Nature's Grasp will. I see alot of points in Balance going to things that won't have a direct impact on the successfulness of your healing power. Like Vengeance...that's a Moonkin talent if I've ever seen one. Fazuul *rarely* does dps in caster form. I'm either healing, or doing DPS, or tanking. The only time (in my humble and inexperienced opinion) a druid will do much DPS in caster form is if he's healing a 5 man with a very well geared Lurker group someplace, and a shadow priest is there with Vampiric Embrace, or happens to be a Moonkin. But other than that, the chances to take advantage of crit chance for starfire and moonfire will be few and far between. That's the thing I see with this build, is all those points into balance that won't directly affect your healing. Some think Omen of Clarity is a good talent to have for a healer druid too. I've never used it personally. With my doing a steady diet of Healing Touch spells on a well geared tank means what I need is Spirit, mp5, and +healing so I can rank down to a cheaper rank spell to get more out of my mana. If I were you, and could afford the gold either way, I'd try this build for a while with your current healing gear, and then try something else if you didn't like it. I just think you'll feel limited in your ability to do things other than heal with this build, as you'll be lacking talents to help your feral forms, either DPS or tanking.
Just my two cents worth, if it's worth that much. :)

[PapaSmurf]

Well I tweeked the build a little bit and came up with this one. It reduced the cost of my rank 10 healing touch to 583 mana. I also decided to throw improved thorns into the mix to help out aggro generation on our tanks.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classe...505203105015000

[Lok]

Well for me if the raid needs a tank, I log onto my lvl 60 decked out warrior who will tank far far better than any druid except in a few situations such as AE aggro or encounters purely dependent upon elemental resists. I lug around all sorts of tanking gear on that warrior, a good 48 slots worth of the crap, and I did not want to go through such a horrible gear grind with this druid. I wanted to keep it simple, and I think +dmg/heal gear is the way to go, since it applies well to either the healing function or the nuking function.

As far as nuking goes, I have no real illusions here. I know a mage is going to put me under the table in that department. But the way I look at it is that to have a reasonable nuking function, I must put far more talents there than I do need to put into a healing function. From a PvP standpoint, I can root nuke stuff that is too dangerous to engage up close (rogues, warriors). My strat is to play a second line guy, healing where needed, rooting where needed, and running if targetted and in general surviving. My experience with warrior on BGs is you rarely get anyone healing you, and you die fast, which means less honor since you get none while dead. I suppose as I get better gear and graduate from AV to AB/warsong, I may wish to have more feral function to perform flag running services. But for now I need a good zerg on zerg PvP build.

There is some synergy between balance and healing, so that is what makes this build appeal to me.

About the only thing that really makes me want to go 30 feral/21 resto is the idea of stealth team running. I have not done alot of this, and all stealth groups in games like DAOC were a lot of fun for me. But even in that kind of situation, I think you bring more to the table by upping healing and nuking than you do by upping feral dps...odds are the rogues are going to clean up, and where they need support is for standoff situations or healing. For something like that I would go maybe 26/15/10 where I would rely upon wrath and moonfire as my main nukes, have long range roots and some grasp, and from feral pick up utility stun and cat speed/stealth radius. On the resto end I could only go for uninterrupted heals, and I would try to wear +heal/dmg leather such that emergency bear mode would have high armor.