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My project : a pure legit community
07-19-2006, 09:10 AM
Post: #21
My project : a pure legit community
Quote:I would also be very happy to see a 1.10 "update" made for Diablo among the community of Battle.net gamers. As far fetched as it sounds, if it was of a high enough quality I could actually see Blizzard biting and using it. Perhaps that's a bit of a dream, though. In any case, I would love a patch that fixed the MS bug, the dupe bug, the horizontal walk bug, the lack of stunlock when friendly, the use of scrolls from the belt bug, an anti-crash, or anti-autokill. While I agree that these are hacks, and some of them assuredly violate the ToS, (Please read said paragraph in it, before trying to mention that ALL hacks violate the ToS.) they are helpful for the Diablo community.

I don't picture Blizzard implementing a "patch" that was made without the game's source code. The would want to do their own fixes, and I don't them taking time to do that at this point either. Honestly, it has always been a bit of a slap in the face that they have done nothing about duping in all these years, when the bug was known from day one, and the fix is not nearly as hard as Blizzard PR make it out to be. However, they did ask us to make a bug list, and they did fix a considerable number of those bugs in 1.07, so they deserve some credit for that. But in any case, I think any future Diablo patches will be strictly to maintain b.net compatibility if and when future changes are made to the setup of b.net.

Quote:In all honesty, if Blizzard sent one man around with even a rudimentary knowledge of Diablo into public games, he could kick hundreds of players in a day with no one the wiser. Let me dream. =D

Since it is a peer to peer game, all character data is stored on the user's computer rather than b.net servers, and there are no CD keys, there is really nothing meaningful that Blizzard can do about cheating in this game.

Quote:I have another question, related to violating the ToS. Do you think such a program as an anti-autokill actually modify the gameplay? I'm interested to see where people stand on this issue, because I've encountered very differing comments about it.

In terms of the ToS, I don't really know. I barely pay attention to the ToS. I'm not sure it is valid, and I don't think it even existed when I purchased Diablo. In general, I would say that a strict anti-autokill program should not modify gameplay, because autokill itself is not an aspect of gameplay. To me that is definitely not cheating (whereas a general anti-PK program most definitely IS cheating). I'd say the ability to see possibly legit items that other players have in their inventory is more questionable than the anti-autokill, assuming the anti-autokill does not have any side affects on the game.
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07-19-2006, 02:33 PM
Post: #22
My project : a pure legit community
Quote:I don't picture Blizzard implementing a "patch" that was made without the game's source code. The would want to do their own fixes, and I don't them taking time to do that at this point either. Honestly, it has always been a bit of a slap in the face that they have done nothing about duping in all these years, when the bug was known from day one, and the fix is not nearly as hard as Blizzard PR make it out to be. However, they did ask us to make a bug list, and they did fix a considerable number of those bugs in 1.07, so they deserve some credit for that. But in any case, I think any future Diablo patches will be strictly to maintain b.net compatibility if and when future changes are made to the setup of b.net.

I was thinking more along the lines of if a group of knowledgable programmers simply gave them the next update with all the applicable fixes in a nice little box. I seem to be under the false impression that with all of the modding going on and Jarulfinizing, we had more of the source code than we actually do... ie: any of it.
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07-19-2006, 04:46 PM
Post: #23
My project : a pure legit community
Well someone is interested to start a PLM player with me and cooping today ?
I think we need more to act than talking too much:)
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07-19-2006, 05:31 PM (This post was last modified: 07-19-2006 05:41 PM by AyoR.)
Post: #24
My project : a pure legit community
x2
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07-19-2006, 09:06 PM
Post: #25
My project : a pure legit community
Quote:I was thinking more along the lines of if a group of knowledgable programmers simply gave them the next update with all the applicable fixes in a nice little box. I seem to be under the false impression that with all of the modding going on and Jarulfinizing, we had more of the source code than we actually do... ie: any of it.

Unlike Quake or Quake 2, I don't think any Blizzard games have open source code so far. It is possible to do a great deal without the actual source code, as can be witnessed by all the people who hack games and other programs. It is even possible to implement the changes you have suggested (most have been done already). However, I think there are plenty of reasons why Blizzard wouldn't want to officially endorse and distribute such a modification. The documentation of the changes would be a concern. Debugging may be an issue. PC version vs. Mac version may be an issue.

In all honesty, it should be easier for a couple of Blizzard programmers to make the changes and debug them themselves than it would be to get a fixed version of the game from the community, figure out all of the changes made, and verify that it is OK for distribution.
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07-20-2006, 04:12 AM
Post: #26
My project : a pure legit community
Quote:When you say this it is very much a deterrent to your case of innocence. You are going to get evidence to "bury" him? What if he is simply a legitimate player? The fact that you are so sure of being able to acquire evidence which will make him look bad makes it seem as if you are indeed part of such a conspiracy that he believes exists. Thus, I'd prefer to allow different stances to remain, and will not reveal his name to you.

Also, please refrain from attacking me, as I'm offering another's opinions, and remain undecided on the matter.

You are no innocent... I attacked only in response to your outlandish accusations against friends of mine. No, you didn't create such views but you did voice them publicly without knowing the facts and without any thought of the potential harm it could do to the accused's presence within this community and others. Communitites that already contain their fair share of paranoia.

Furthermore, why would my innocence be in question? I have nothing to do with diabloguard and I don't ever recall playing with Triv. I do however know a bunch of players who are on the Definately Legit Players list the program contains, all of whom would have to be cheaters if you were to believe your friend.

As for your friend, he may well be a legitimate player but that doesn't excuse his attempts to poison your mind with this propaganda. Having said that though the chances of your friend being one of three people I have in mind are highly likely... all have been thrown out of their respective communities in the past for cheating and all would be stupid enough to say something that absurd. If its one of the three then I will elaborate for you, if its not one of the three, then they certainly need a talking to anyway, as such accusations can only harm what is left of a dwindling community.

Hiding your friend does nothing in the way of resolving this matter, so once again I ask for a PM.

Aarda's still throwing roses at the rain...
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07-21-2006, 03:26 AM
Post: #27
My project : a pure legit community
Quote:I would love a patch that fixed the MS bug, the dupe bug, the horizontal walk bug, the lack of stunlock when friendly, the use of scrolls from the belt bug, an anti-crash, or anti-autokill.

In order:

Annoying, but doable.
Trivial joke.
Unknown, probably not worth it.
Doable, but incompatible with other players (i.e. everyone must use it)
Easy.
Trivial for any one crash, but monumental for the sheer number of vulnerabilities that need to be fixed.
Trivial.

You forgot the stupid design that causes Diablo to use 100% CPU even in chat and the idiotic bug that lets remote users break your ability to play with others. They're completely preventable. The CPU bug is preventable in game too, but there's side effects (jerky motion).
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07-21-2006, 08:17 AM
Post: #28
My project : a pure legit community
> the horizontal walk bug,

Iirc, the horizontal walk bug was 'addressed' in one of the previous patches, but the fix wound up being worse than the problem. So they just changed it back and probably decided it wasn't worth pursuing since technically it wasn't a high priority like a game crashing bug.

I'd be very careful with what you wish Blizzard does in their patches. They're one of the best companies around in terms of polish, and quashing game crashing bugs. But they're not known for subtlety when it comes to dealing with balance, an already hard thing to do without involving their 300lbs gorilla paws.

Thankfully bliz attention and focus is now on WoW, so the chances of a nasty surprise for D1 in a new patch involving a 'fix' for a problem that doesn't need that kind of medicine, is fairly low.
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07-22-2006, 02:58 AM
Post: #29
My project : a pure legit community
Quote:Kp' date='Jul 20 2006, 11:26 PM' post='114175']
In order:

Annoying, but doable.
Trivial joke.
Unknown, probably not worth it.
Doable, but incompatible with other players (i.e. everyone must use it)
Easy.
Trivial for any one crash, but monumental for the sheer number of vulnerabilities that need to be fixed.
Trivial.

You forgot the stupid design that causes Diablo to use 100% CPU even in chat and the idiotic bug that lets remote users break your ability to play with others. They're completely preventable. The CPU bug is preventable in game too, but there's side effects (jerky motion).

The duping bug is trivial? 90% of games on D1 are essentially unplayable due to the newbs with level 27 fireballs or 255 charged staffs of apocalpse. If you had done more than skimmed my post, you would have noted that I was talking about a patch incorporated by Blizzard, meaning it would change the run of Battle.Net, which makes most of your "analysis" rather irrelevant.

As for the bugs, yes, most are unimportant, but Diablo would be a much more solid game with their fixing.
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07-22-2006, 03:00 AM
Post: #30
My project : a pure legit community
Quote:I'd be very careful with what you wish Blizzard does in their patches. They're one of the best companies around in terms of polish, and quashing game crashing bugs.

If Blizzard kept in touch even a small bit with the active D1 community, they would be able to incorporate the proper fixes. Though it's doubtful, I would almost assuredly be pleased with any future patches of D1.
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07-22-2006, 04:31 AM
Post: #31
My project : a pure legit community
Quote:The duping bug is trivial? 90% of games on D1 are essentially unplayable due to the newbs with level 27 fireballs or 255 charged staffs of apocalpse. If you had done more than skimmed my post, you would have noted that I was talking about a patch incorporated by Blizzard, meaning it would change the run of Battle.Net, which makes most of your "analysis" rather irrelevant.

As for the bugs, yes, most are unimportant, but Diablo would be a much more solid game with their fixing.

I think he meant how hard it would be to fix the various bugs.

Why can't we all just get along

--Pete
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07-22-2006, 06:00 AM
Post: #32
My project : a pure legit community
Quote:I think he meant how hard it would be to fix the various bugs.

If that was the case, the duping bug is still far from trivial, as Blizzard tried and was unable to fix it. Although I know in some mods it has since been fixed, that's still not a very trivial bug if one of the best gaming companies in the world was stumped.
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07-22-2006, 07:18 AM
Post: #33
My project : a pure legit community
Quote:If that was the case, the duping bug is still far from trivial, as Blizzard tried and was unable to fix it. Although I know in some mods it has since been fixed, that's still not a very trivial bug if one of the best gaming companies in the world was stumped.

The bugfix IS trivial, as many modmakers have shown. Blizzard could have easily fixed the problem. They chose not too.


"What contemptible scoundrel stole the cork from my lunch?"

-W.C. Fields
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07-22-2006, 01:03 PM
Post: #34
My project : a pure legit community
>If Blizzard kept in touch even a small bit with the active D1 community, they would be able to incorporate the proper fixes. Though it's doubtful, I would almost assuredly be pleased with any future patches of D1.


What, you mean something like this over at the D2\LoD side of things?

http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?f...p=1#post1247096


I use to believe that bliz as a videogame company was very weak in one regard. Whenever they see a local problem, they smash it down with a global solution.

I also believe that 'bliz logic' is a slight form of insanity that is the unfortunate but unnegotiable price for their great strengths like extremely polished execution and little to no game crashing bugs. (Why else would they ignore some fairly major gameplay bugs, yet tweak and 'fix' others that did not really need it. 'Fend' in D2\LoD is still wonky, yet a fix was made for the Anya personalization quest reward?!)

I still believe in the second, but maybe not so much in the first. Looking at some of the replies on that link, I really wonder if maybe some of those players deserve what they get, whenever a bliz patch that's heavy on the nerf mallet and light on the logic hits them. The problem is, -I- can also get hit with whatever they deserve.

And just to make sure I'm reading you right. What exactly do you mean by 'proper' fixes? Most of the gameplay bugs you mentioned already has been mentioned by players a while back. Some even iirc, gave detailed account on how they managed to fix it. It would be great if bliz fixed them with no side effects, but I'm not optimistic given their track record. Other things however, sounds more like wishing bliz would enforce a personal idea of how the game should be played.

Wishing bliz would take a more active stance on cheating is one thing. (Though considering the age and structure of this game, and the fact that their focus is on whatever their current project is, they'd probably be happier if no one bothers them about D1.) But to me there's nothing illegitimate or cheating about say, twinking. Or for that matter, being a jerk of a player, or something like Player Killing.

I'm not talking about twinking from a cheated source, or griefing to the point of criminal harassment. I'm talking about your average jerk like human behaviour that falls under benign a-holism. Which is probably most of us on any given day (well maybe just me), but there's no rules that says you have to have manners or decency to be a legitimate and non cheating player.

So while I wish this project great luck and success, I think the more important criteria is the original poster wish to find players with a mature mind set, or at least of similar mindsets along with no cheating. That I think, will probably foster longevity more so than just an imo an overly strict set of rules over legit play.
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07-22-2006, 07:04 PM (This post was last modified: 07-22-2006 07:05 PM by Alamara.)
Post: #35
My project : a pure legit community
Quote:The bugfix IS trivial, as many modmakers have shown. Blizzard could have easily fixed the problem. They chose not too.

How can you honestly believe that? Blizzard chose to have cheating continue in a game when they could have stopped it, even when they made attempts to stop it, made it harder, and eliminated duplicates?
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07-22-2006, 08:16 PM
Post: #36
My project : a pure legit community
Blizzard is a company. They make decisions according to the bottom line.

Quote:How can you honestly believe that? Blizzard chose to have cheating continue in a game when they could have stopped it, even when they made attempts to stop it, made it harder, and eliminated duplicates?

Why can't we all just get along

--Pete
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07-22-2006, 08:25 PM
Post: #37
My project : a pure legit community
Quote:How can you honestly believe that? Blizzard chose to have cheating continue in a game when they could have stopped it, even when they made attempts to stop it, made it harder, and eliminated duplicates?

I can believe it because I have seen the code Dr. Zed used to fix it. It amounts to two memory copies, one at the top of the item handling routine and another at the bottom. That's one extra statement in each of two places in the Diablo code to fix it. His fix was a bit more involved because of storage space requirements, which anyone working with the original source code would not need to worry about. They could just create a new location on the stack to hold the item.

Blizzard chose to leave duping in place and claim it was unfixable because they knew how many people liked the duping bug. Consider how many cheaters you see on a given day (now or then). Assume at least half of them use duplicated items (probably an absurdly low estimate). How many of them would whine or outright quit if they suddenly lost the ability to duplicate items?
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07-24-2006, 08:31 PM
Post: #38
My project : a pure legit community
Quote:How can you honestly believe that? Blizzard chose to have cheating continue in a game when they could have stopped it, even when they made attempts to stop it, made it harder, and eliminated duplicates?

Besides the fact that the fix IS trivial, howsabout the age-old argument that Diablo is no longer generating revenue. If anything, it is costing them server space. Even if Blizzard wanted to fix this, it would be WAAAY down the priority list. WoW is obviously first, since it's new, generates revenue every month, both from sales and fees, and because it's the whipping boy of us older game players. I'd say Diablo II would be next, but experience has shown otherwise. Despite massive bugs (a la Fend), glaring imbalances (a la Paladins), and server problems, it has received almost nothing since the heralds of its downfall, patches 1.10 and onward. Warcraft III probably receives more maintenance, but I wouldn't know since my internet connection at my folks house is much too...not so good to play it. But since Blizzard still runs almost daily tournies as far as I know, they probably keep it up. Starcraft is apparently still high on the list. It's a classic. It may well be the best game Blizzard has made. It is still going strong (unlike a certain first Diablo title) with tens of thousands of users and a worldwide "Sandlot Tournament." And lest we forget, Blizzard is still developing new games (presumably). So unless they plan on giving us some tenth anniversary goodness(Unlikely--did Warcraft original get anything?), I'm not seeing anything coming our way.

--me
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08-27-2006, 06:13 AM
Post: #39
My project : a pure legit community
I'm looking for a legit community or legit people to play with, i'm on Europe gateway.
Hopefully i get some responses:)
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08-27-2006, 07:25 AM
Post: #40
My project : a pure legit community
Quote:I'm looking for a legit community or legit people to play with, i'm on Europe gateway.
Hopefully i get some responses:)

Most of the Europeans are playing diablo rebirth, an unauthorised expansion of diablo... you can find the information and download here at - http://www.diablorebirth.net

Otherwise you're more than welcome to join us at diablo le on us.east server... nothing glamourous or anything but a place away from the cheaters at least. Be sure to type `seen into the channel for user traffic.

Aarda's still throwing roses at the rain...
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