Andrea Yates verdict - huh?

[Lissa]

Of course it does. Some women experience very little or none at all. Others are affected more severely. However, if you want to kill your kids so much that you actually go ahead and do it (or even come close to it), you should change your name to Aab - Aborted At Birth. People have all sorts of different urges throughout their lives, some of them very strong and not necessarily normal. We as human beings have learned to separate ourselves from other animals by having self-control. Where is theirs? If they do not have it, then they should be treated as we treat other animals that have killed human beings.

Maybe you should read less pop-psychology. It might get some useless crap out of your brain, thereby enlightening you.
-A

Has nothing to do with Pop-psychology, it's called being informed. You seem to keep spouting your opinion here without trying to get the information that would help you understand the plight involved.

BTW, nice paraphrase of Pete's post above who you seem to have such vehment hatred for in this thread.

[Archon_Wing]

I wonder if the Eskimos/Inuits ever had to deal with post partum depression before someone told them what it was? I will never know, but I have always marveled at the power of suggestion.

Send money to Archon

Where have I seen the underlined passage before?

Send money to Archon
Occhi

Hmm, I didn't notice any thing suggestive there. Does anyone?



BMA 234349063063

[Griselda]

As to post partum depression . . . is this a recent phenomenon, brought about by the self fulfilling prophecies of psychiatrists to up their case load and income, or was it a typical response of women over many millenia to now and again drown a new born baby?

While I don't know what research this site is using to provide its information, it appears that the rate of post-partum psychosis has remained unchanged since it was first "identified" in 1850. If this was a case of pshychiatrists creating a self-fulfilling prophecy, I would have expected the rate to have risen throughout the 20th century.

Also according that that site, this disorder has a 5% suicide rate and a 4% infanticide race, although I'm not sure how they get their numbers since they claim that fewer than 20% seek treatment (maybe the other 80% have others seek treatment for them?).

[Lissa]

While I don't know what research this site is using to provide its information, it appears that the rate of post-partum psychosis has remained unchanged since it was first "identified" in 1850. If this was a case of pshychiatrists creating a self-fulfilling prophecy, I would have expected the rate to have risen throughout the 20th century.

Also according that that site, this disorder has a 5% suicide rate and a 4% infanticide race, although I'm not sure how they get their numbers since they claim that fewer than 20% seek treatment (maybe the other 80% have others seek treatment for them?).

The numbers this site is showing jives with numbers I've seen on other sites as well. They say that PPP afflicts about 1 to 2 women per 1000 (so a 0.1% to 0.2% of mothers). PPD afflicts far more than this.

[Chesspiece_face]

The numbers this site is showing jives with numbers I've seen on other sites as well. They say that PPP afflicts about 1 to 2 women per 1000 (so a 0.1% to 0.2% of mothers). PPD afflicts far more than this.

PPP and PPD are two seperate issues. are you implying that their numbers on PPP are lower than you've read elsewhere? PPD is the more common and less drastic disorder so obviously it would afflict more individuals than PPP.

[Lissa]

PPP and PPD are two seperate issues. are you implying that their numbers on PPP are lower than you've read elsewhere? PPD is the more common and less drastic disorder so obviously it would afflict more individuals than PPP.

No, what I'm saying is the information that is on Griselda's site sits with what I've read on other sites. PPP afflicts about 1 to 2 Mothers per 1000. Grisela's site further breaks down how often of those Mothers that do have PPP either commit suicide or infantcide.

The sites I saw showed that PPD was way more common than PPP was (didn't give exact numbers on PPD, but PPP was stated to be extremely rare).

[Occhidiangela]

No, what I'm saying is the information that is on Griselda's site sits with what I've read on other sites. PPP afflicts about 1 to 2 Mothers per 1000. Grisela's site further breaks down how often of those Mothers that do have PPP either commit suicide or infantcide.

The sites I saw showed that PPD was way more common than PPP was (didn't give exact numbers on PPD, but PPP was stated to be extremely rare).

So two sites cross reference each other?

PPP would also seem to be, per my previous Darwinian comment, a self eliminating trait until it was tolerated and excused, and treated. By treating those with it, wouldn't the incidence start to creep up over the generations? And I do mean creep. :P

Occhi

[Lissa]

So two sites cross reference each other?

PPP would also seem to be, per my previous Darwinian comment, a self eliminating trait until it was tolerated and excused, and treated. By treating those with it, wouldn't the incidence start to creep up over the generations? And I do mean creep. :P

Occhi

Not from the sites I've looked at. It seems to be steady across all generations. The cause of PPD and PPP is hormonal imbalances after birth. What happens is one of the hormones, I can't remember the name, drops to non-pregnancy levels within hours after birth. It is this hormonal drop that can lead to PPD and PPP as the hormonal drop off affects each woman differently (some show no issues, others get PPD, the rare tragic few end up with PPP). So, if it was something that was caused by familial genetics, it would have dropped off considerably over time as those that had these traits were removed from the gene pool, but it hasn't.

[eppie]

6) Get a large wood chipper, and feed Andrea Yates into it.


Occhi

Wow Occhi it looks like you found the solution of all of worlds problems here.

The wood chipper thing would for sure refrain people form getting mentally insane. I mean everybody knows that the threat of punishment is the best way to lower the rate of crimes ..especially by people how are nuttier than a fruitcake.

Plus it would give a great sign about our (your) society...here I am thinking we are in the 21st century..but no.....best to als o start burning whiches again.

What worries me is that if we would place an add in some big newspaper saying we are looking for a new executioner appointed by the state to kill the mentally insane via torture, you would probably get lots of reactions of people who want the job.
Can you imagine going through these peoples resumes?

eppie

ps I agree that psychiatrist invent deseases just to make money

[Nystul]

What worries me is that if we would place an add in some big newspaper saying we are looking for a new executioner appointed by the state to kill the mentally insane via torture, you would probably get lots of reactions of people who want the job.
Can you imagine going through these peoples resumes?

A new spin on the Catch 22. One would have to be a bit demented to want the job. But one can't be the chipper if one is insane, he must be the chippee instead. So we then have plenty of people to chip up. But who will do the task of chipping, if all of the psychos are waiting to be chipped?

[Alram]

Wow Occhi it looks like you found the solution of all of worlds problems here.

The wood chipper thing would for sure refrain people form getting mentally insane. I mean everybody knows that the threat of punishment is the best way to lower the rate of crimes ..especially by people how are nuttier than a fruitcake.

Plus it would give a great sign about our (your) society...here I am thinking we are in the 21st century..but no.....best to als o start burning whiches again.

What worries me is that if we would place an add in some big newspaper saying we are looking for a new executioner appointed by the state to kill the mentally insane via torture, you would probably get lots of reactions of people who want the job.
Can you imagine going through these peoples resumes?

eppie

ps I agree that psychiatrist invent deseases just to make money

They do use The wood chipper in Fargo, North Dakota.

And psychiatrists might now use drugs instead of pychoanalysis because that's what insurance companies reimburse for. The bug problem the medical specialty of psychiatry has (aside form the fact that it is difficult to spell) is the lack of an expensive procedure they can perform and bill for.

[kandrathe]

They do use The wood chipper in Fargo, North Dakota.

No need. Fargo is it's own best torture.

[Occhidiangela]

A new spin on the Catch 22. One would have to be a bit demented to want the job. But one can't be the chipper if one is insane, he must be the chippee instead. So we then have plenty of people to chip up. But who will do the task of chipping, if all of the psychos are waiting to be chipped?

This is the same problem Koko in The Mikado has as the Lord High Executioner: he must not cut off another's head until he's cut his own off. :lol: (Gilbert and Sullivan)

Occhi

[Occhidiangela]

They do use The wood chipper in Fargo, North Dakota.

And psychiatrists might now use drugs instead of pychoanalysis because that's what insurance companies reimburse for. The bug problem the medical specialty of psychiatry has (aside form the fact that it is difficult to spell) is the lack of an expensive procedure they can perform and bill for.

One hundred dollars per hour (or more) to have people talk to you isn't expensive?????

Occhi

[Ashock]

I wonder if the Eskimos/Inuits ever had to deal with post partum depression before someone told them what it was? I will never know, but I have always marveled at the power of suggestion.

Send money to Occhi

Where have I seen the underlined passage before?

Send money to Occhi
Occhi

You did get my check, right?


-A

[Ashock]

Has nothing to do with Pop-psychology, it's called being informed. You seem to keep spouting your opinion here without trying to get the information that would help you understand the plight involved.

BTW, nice paraphrase of Pete's post above who you seem to have such vehment hatred for in this thread.

If I paraphrased Pete's post, it was not intentional, believe me.... or don't belive me, I could not care less. As far as being informed, that depends on your sources. You can be informed by reading crap too, and if that's all you're reading, you'll never know it. Case in point - people who lived in communist countries and people who live in Muslim countries now. It's all about what you're told is the truth, thereby affecting your assessment of real facts. Most people tend to believe whatever POV is en vogue currently, even in a so-called "free" society, because that is what they are constantly bombarded with. If we are told that having sex with a mountain goat is good for your health, within a generation we will be doing it and arguing that it is good for us.



-A

[Ashock]

ps I agree that psychiatrist invent deseases just to make money

Personally, I think that they (and medical professionals in general) invent diseases not necessarily for that, but mainly because they do not want to admit that they know very little about what really makes us tick, physically and even more psychologically. This makes them sound more important, initially only to themselves, but with enough exposure to everyone around them.


-A

[Lissa]

If I paraphrased Pete's post, it was not intentional, believe me.... or don't belive me, I could not care less. As far as being informed, that depends on your sources. You can be informed by reading crap too, and if that's all you're reading, you'll never know it. Case in point - people who lived in communist countries and people who live in Muslim countries now. It's all about what you're told is the truth, thereby affecting your assessment of real facts. Most people tend to believe whatever POV is en vogue currently, even in a so-called "free" society, because that is what they are constantly bombarded with. If we are told that having sex with a mountain goat is good for your health, within a generation we will be doing it and arguing that it is good for us.
-A

I tend to check multiple sources to co-oberate the information I find. In the case of PPD and PPP, all the sites I read, and none linked to the others, had essentially the same information. Some covered it more in depth than others.

The fact is, to make a truly informed opinion you have to do research. From looking at the general attitudes and opinions on this topic, few people have bothered to actually research the issue at hand and the root causes.

So, I suggest again to you and others, go out and do some research on this before spouting off an opinion that shows that you are uninformed. An informed opinion always trumps an uninformed opinion, and simply, most the posters in this thread are making uninformed opinions.

[eppie]

Personally, I think that they (and medical professionals in general) invent diseases not necessarily for that, but mainly because they do not want to admit that they know very little about what really makes us tick, physically and even more psychologically. This makes them sound more important, initially only to themselves, but with enough exposure to everyone around them.
-A

A very bold statement. I think physically they know really a lot. And the rate in which new things about our physical en psychological state are discovered is immense. I am of the opinion that especially in the western countries a lot is known.

If you blame them for not knowing everything....well...can be..but doesn't make sense to do.

@occhi......I would pay thousands of euros to get a shrinck to make me sane again

[gekko]

If I paraphrased Pete's post, it was not intentional, believe me.... or don't belive me, I could not care less. As far as being informed, that depends on your sources. You can be informed by reading crap too, and if that's all you're reading, you'll never know it. Case in point - people who lived in communist countries and people who live in Muslim countries now. It's all about what you're told is the truth, thereby affecting your assessment of real facts. Most people tend to believe whatever POV is en vogue currently, even in a so-called "free" society, because that is what they are constantly bombarded with. If we are told that having sex with a mountain goat is good for your health, within a generation we will be doing it and arguing that it is good for us.
-A

So is there a way for us mere mortals to tell what sources are crap and what sources are omnipotent? Beyond just listening to you, of course.

You constantly remind everyone that everything you know is correct and everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot. You never back yourself up with sources or even arguments, but just insult and belittle.

Do you really believe that everyone you're talking to is too stupid to think for themselves? Of course we're bombarded with "facts" that are often less than accurate. I know I certainly don't know all the answers, and I'll go on a limb and wager that no one on this forum does, either. However, I'd also wager that the majority of people on this board, at least, are smart enough to listen to what they hear and form their own conclusions. So try not to belittle everyone just for disagreeing with you.

gekko