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Raelynn · 07-29-2006, 11:58 PM

Quote:Among the innovations that will be introduced in the Burning Crusade are difficulty settings that the party leader can choose when starting up an instance:
Read the article for even more information on the Burning Crusade. I've given you a topic. Now discuss!

Something that kinda bothered me from the same article was this:

Quote:Each class receives five new Spells and abilities

They claimed the classes were getting new abilities from level 40 and up. 5 abilities doesn't seem like all that much to me :(

ZugzwangZeitgeist · 07-30-2006, 02:07 AM

Quote:Something that kinda bothered me from the same article was this:

They claimed the classes were getting new abilities from level 40 and up. 5 abilities doesn't seem like all that much to me :(

40+ Up = Talent points 32-41 in each talent tree, which can be spent beginning at 41?

5 Spells and Abilities = A mistranslation that there will be 5 new sets of spells and abilities at levels 62, 64, 66, 68, and 70? It doesn't make any sense at all that each class gets exactly 5 new spells and abilities, unless they're just adding one new ability at each level, which seems a little weird.

Whatever the meaning, there have to be spells and abilities for levels 41-60 simply because of the new talent trees. I do wish Blizzard would just release some of this in a press release though, to end this speculating at garbled translations. Even something like a label-less picture of a 41 point talent tree would be very welcome.

Concillian · 07-30-2006, 05:04 PM

Quote:They claimed the classes were getting new abilities from level 40 and up. 5 abilities doesn't seem like all that much to me :(

Yeah, I think 'spells and abilities' = skills.

I think that the talent choices will exist on top of these 'spells and abilities.' I expect if you combine talents and skills you will have significantly more options than just 5. Warriors have noted that the 41 point talents need to be extremely compelling in order to make them not want to spec into deathwish + flurry + 2H spec + sword/axe/polearm spec + mortal strike, so I expect the new talent selections will be pretty good.

I don't have reference to the blue post, but there has been a statement that 31+ point talents will not be level restricted, only talent point restricted. So these talents should be available from 40-70, and this is probably the same level range in which you start gaining ranks of your new abilities.

I would be concerned less about the quantity of new abilities and more about the usefulness of them. I don't remember the last time my rogue used expose armor, for example. Are they going to be that sort of "useful in an extremely unlikely scenario" skills, or more "this is something I can use all the time" skills? Even if they are "use all the time" skills, people only have so much hotbar space and so many key mappings. It seems to me that 10 or 15 more things to map to hotbars and keystrokes would be overly cumbersome.

Raelynn · 07-30-2006, 08:29 PM

Quote:40+ Up = Talent points 32-41 in each talent tree, which can be spent beginning at 41?

5 Spells and Abilities = A mistranslation that there will be 5 new sets of spells and abilities at levels 62, 64, 66, 68, and 70? It doesn't make any sense at all that each class gets exactly 5 new spells and abilities, unless they're just adding one new ability at each level, which seems a little weird.

Whatever the meaning, there have to be spells and abilities for levels 41-60 simply because of the new talent trees. I do wish Blizzard would just release some of this in a press release though, to end this speculating at garbled translations. Even something like a label-less picture of a 41 point talent tree would be very welcome.

As Concillian said, the talents are beyond the skill changed. I also remember them saying that the talents would not be restricted by levels, so they would be available to all. I'm kinda worried about the talents for a similar reason to Concillian. A few classes have crazy abilities from getting a single talent point more. They will have to be very careful to make the 41 point talent to be better than those combinations while not making them overpowered. Then again, they're reworking the trees, so some 30 point talents could move up theoretically (though that's doubtful).

As for the abilities, I don't have a link, but it was said that new skills wouldn't be added starting at 60, but actually at level 40. There are not many new skills that I can think of that come after level 40, and the few that are there are often quest related and a bit gimmicky (Curse of Doom and Summon infernal are just pet "progression", Tranq shot is a spell added to let them use a new mechanic in the raid game). They said they wanted to add more in the 40-60 range because of this. 5 skills across 30 levels is a bit few to me. Plus, some classes probably need some more than 5 (locks and hunters for example need progression for their pets, and so they should probably get more than the 5 IMO).

Watto44 · 07-31-2006, 09:25 AM

What amuses me about this developement is that Blizzard effectively had a system like this in the game. If, instead of nerfing and restricting dungeons to 5 and ten man, they had re-itemized and redesigned the dungeon's quest structure you would have a basic difficulty setting. Add to that the timed quests and summonable bosses, and you two and a half levels -;)- of difficulty.

TheWesson · 07-31-2006, 06:10 PM

Considering the rate at which Blizzard emits content, I'm very pleased to anticipate something that multiplies the content they do come out with.

lemekim · 07-31-2006, 07:38 PM

Here is an interesting new tidbit. In another masterstroke that adds finishing touches to the rich tapestry of Blizzard's RetCons and contradictions, Blood Elves will not be able to choose Warrior as a class.

Yes, yes, we all know that previously Blizzard stated that any race, when cornered, can pick up a weapon and fight - hence every race can be a warrior. But while the dimunitive Gnomes hack at their enemies with weapons twice their size, and the fairy Night Elves take a break from their dance lessons to tank Nefarion in a full suit of armor, it seems our magical Blood Elf friends forgot how to don some armor, a shield and a sword and just hack and slash at their enemies. Well, almost forgot - they can use a shield, as long as they are using the power of the unholy version of holy light and - sometimes - shoot lazer beams from their eyes.

Er, pardon for that - here is the link.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.a...&tmp=1#blizzard

P.S. PEWPEW

Kevin · 07-31-2006, 09:10 PM

Quote:Er, pardon for that - here is the link.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.a...&tmp=1#blizzard

P.S. PEWPEW

Sigh.

Though I did like this quote from the thread since gnomes being the only race in the game without healers really bothers me:

Quote:We apparently gave up our ability to pray in order to gain the ability to fight. This was obviously a mistake, as Gnomeregan has been reduced to it's current state. Clearly the Blood Elves have seen the error of my noble ancestors and have selected the Priesthood rather then the path of the sword.

It will bug me to have a race without tanks Paladin, Hunter, Rogue, Mage, Priest, Warlock is the class list for Blood Elves. I'm sorry, paladins aren't tanks, and Blizzard keeps making them less tank like all the time.

If you only want 6 classes per race give paladin to the orcs (I've seen better backstories for it than for Blood Elves anyway). It's a silly balancing game anyway.

Code:
Alliance&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

Human&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Warrior&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mage&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Paladin&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Priest&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Rogue&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Warlock

NE&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Warrior&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Druid&nbsp;&nbsp; Hunter&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Priest&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Rogue&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

Dwarf&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Warrior&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Hunter&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Paladin&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Priest&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Rogue&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

Gnome&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Warrior&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mage&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Rogue&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Warlock

Dranei&nbsp;&nbsp; Warrior&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Hunter&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mage&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Paladin&nbsp;&nbsp; Shaman&nbsp;&nbsp; Priest&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

Horde&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

Orc&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Warrior&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Hunter&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Shaman&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Rogue&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Warlock

Undead&nbsp;&nbsp; Warrior&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mage&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Priest&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Rogue&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Warlock

Tauren&nbsp;&nbsp; Warrior&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Druid&nbsp;&nbsp; Hunter&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Shaman&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

Troll&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Warrior&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Hunter&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mage&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Shaman&nbsp;&nbsp; Priest&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Rogue&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

BE&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Hunter&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Mage&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Paladin&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Priest&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Rogue&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Warlock

So since they seem to be wanting to do a little more faction balancing, especially when they said it came down to hunter and warrior (and not hunter rogue, taking away the rogue would put the already rogue like horde behind) it still makes more sense to drop the hunter leaving both sides with 3 hunters, 5 warriors, 1 druid, 3 mages, take paladin from Dranei and give that to gnomes so you keep 3/1 pallies/shaman, 4 rogues.

You still have the 4 priest vs 3 and the 2 warlock vs 3. And of course Dranei can't be warlocks since locks pull power form the burning legion and they hate them, but of course BE can be paladins. Take the Dranei priest away and make up some crap in the lore for a new ways for warlocks to be and let them be warlocks.

If that is the balancing game you want at least then each faction would have the same number races, same number of races that could be a class, and each race would have warriors, healers, DPS. I guess the issue there is I'm doing 5 gnomes and 4 tauren. Give Tauren a priest. They've evloved enough now been around them enough. I mean we know they can make anything up. Working in Tauren priests doesn't seem to out there.

nobbie · 07-31-2006, 10:49 PM

Quote:That's a VERY hopeful sign. Less of the headcount reward system, more 'are you really as good as you think you are?'.

You mean they've finally learned from Diablo II?;)

Warlock · 08-01-2006, 03:12 AM

Quote:You mean they've finally learned from Diablo II?;)

Heh. At least in Diablo II getting that phat lewt was less likely at lower headcount, not completely impossible;)

WildFire · 08-01-2006, 07:44 AM

They may want to give gnomes priests instead of warriors, and let dwarves be mages again instead of priests... not that I'm displeased with the wee widdle tanks that we have.

nobbie · (This post was last modified: 08-01-2006, 08:08 AM by nobbie.)

Quote:Heh. At least in Diablo II getting that phat lewt was less likely at lower headcount, not completely impossible;)

Oh yes .. how true, how true:)

Although WoW manages it perfectly to suggest that you can get anything in the game, if you have the right party.

Drasca · 08-01-2006, 10:33 AM

Quote:They may want to give gnomes priests instead of warriors, and let dwarves be mages again instead of priests... not that I'm displeased with the wee widdle tanks that we have.

Two words, stay with me here: Gnome, Paladin. Who's with me?:w00t:

WildFire · 08-01-2006, 10:52 AM

Quote:Two words, stay with me here: Gnome, Paladin. Who's with me?:w00t:

Gnome warlocks already look daft enough astride the felsteeds.

Unless they start having shetland-sized mounts....

Took the liberty of putting this together...

Kateley as a pally

[Image: gnomepally.jpg]

Arnulf · 08-01-2006, 11:02 AM

Quote:Kateley as a pally

This rocks! :w00t:

mistique · 08-01-2006, 11:16 AM

<span style="color:#FF0000">The Blood Elf start zone is located to the north of the Eastern Plague Lands and is suitable for level 1 to 10 and level 10 to 20.

The Draenai start locatoin is not yet visible on the current maps but it lies on an island southwest of Darnassus.

There will be hundreds of new quests to take new characters through to level 60 and many of the new quests will be suitable for both of the two new races. Other races will also be able to pick up on these quests. Once you hit 60 its tome to head to the Dark Portal.

POOR, POOR, POOR. :angry:

Such a shame, here i was thinking that with this so called expansion bringing 2 new races into the mix that they'd actually "START" in the outlands and have new area's set up to add the flavor of the outlands to them.

Looks to me like Blizzard have taken the easy way out, only tacking them to the existing map and only providing 1-20 lvs of "NEW" experience until the next 40 lvs of running around the same old places, doing the same old things, what a missed opportunity to reach more ppl.

I'll still be around, even having 4 60's now and a 5th realy close, but i'm realy dissapointed that they couldnt have taken the time they've had to breath new life into the game with 1-60lvs of new area's to explore.

Bummer<_<

lfd · 08-01-2006, 01:37 PM

Quote:Looks to me like Blizzard have taken the easy way out, only tacking them to the existing map and only providing 1-20 lvs of "NEW" experience until the next 40 lvs of running around the same old places, doing the same old things, what a missed opportunity to reach more ppl.

I'll be very disappointed if that's the case; however, there are plenty of inaccessible (and supposed-to-be-inaccessible) areas of the land already. I would be surprised if some of those didn't become new zones; the east side of Azeroth is underdeveloped, for example, and areas south and north of un'goro crater.

If there's no new 20-60 zones, there are going to be a lot of very unhappy, very bored customers.

Xanthix · 08-01-2006, 04:43 PM

Quote:If there's no new 20-60 zones, there are going to be a lot of very unhappy, very bored customers.

Would you rather they added more 20-60 zones/activities, or new 60-70 ones? Obviously we would all like to see both, but it only makes sense that they would add content that they would get the most mileage out of.

New 20-60 content would be used by people leveling new characters in the expansion classes, and alts from time to time. There are people who would never even see it, either because they have no interest in alts or are too busy leveling their 60's to 70 that they won't see it for months.

New 60-70 content will be used by every level 60 player who buys the expansion, and by new players who start the game through the expansion.

I am not saying I wouldn't love to see new areas and quests for level 40's, but given the choice of new scenery that my alt will see once, or new zones that my main and my alt will be able to play, and replay many times, I would choose the latter. Since Blizzard has limited resources, they likely did the same.

lfd · 08-01-2006, 08:15 PM

Quote:I am not saying I wouldn't love to see new areas and quests for level 40's, but given the choice of new scenery that my alt will see once, or new zones that my main and my alt will be able to play, and replay many times, I would choose the latter. Since Blizzard has limited resources, they likely did the same.

They have been developing level 60+ content for a long time.

They are also making so much money from this that there really isn't such a thing as limited resources, just limited willingness to improve resources ;-)

Take a look at Hyjal, for example (although obviously not on the live servers). There's a beautiful-looking zone awaiting the little touches like towns, flight points, mobs, quests. And it's been in that state - on the live servers at least - since release.

Blizzard cannot add content fast enough at the high end, but by adding mid-level content - and there are some level ranges that are pretty painful to get through if you don't spend your life in instances - they add replayability to the game. That's somewhat lacking at the moment. You eventually won't be able to play and replay 60-70 content without being as bored as you are grinding 30-50 now.

Warlock · 08-01-2006, 08:48 PM

Quote:They have been developing level 60+ content for a long time.

They are also making so much money from this that there really isn't such a thing as limited resources, just limited willingness to improve resources ;-)

Take a look at Hyjal, for example (although obviously not on the live servers). There's a beautiful-looking zone awaiting the little touches like towns, flight points, mobs, quests. And it's been in that state - on the live servers at least - since release.

Blizzard cannot add content fast enough at the high end, but by adding mid-level content - and there are some level ranges that are pretty painful to get through if you don't spend your life in instances - they add replayability to the game. That's somewhat lacking at the moment. You eventually won't be able to play and replay 60-70 content without being as bored as you are grinding 30-50 now.

Correction: They've been developing 60+ raid content for a long time. New 60+ group content has been pretty thin on the ground for the last sixteen months. Around 70% of level 60's don't raid.

Further expansions are planned. I imagine Hyjal will open as part of the Emerald Dream expansion.

Looking at the combined playtime of all my characters well over half my playtime has been at level 60. I'd far rather have new content I'll go back to again and again than a zone I'll visit once while levelling and never see again.

Taking a leaf from the first post in this thread how about a 'set this dungeon to level 60' switch for the earlier dungeons, making them reusable content as well?

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