Burning Crusade Will Introduce Difficulty Settings

[MongoJerry]

Among the innovations that will be introduced in the Burning Crusade are difficulty settings that the party leader can choose when starting up an instance:

A new feature is the difficulty settings and the group leader can select between five modes, of "easily" to "super+heavily". Loot is also variable depending on the degree of difficulty you underatle. The harder the difficulty, the better the loot.

Read the article for even more information on the Burning Crusade. I've given you a topic. Now discuss!

[Warlock]

That's a VERY hopeful sign. Less of the headcount reward system, more 'are you really as good as you think you are?'.

[Legedi]

You mean people will actually have to L2P to get their epix? I never thought I'd see the day...

[lemekim]

Beyond the Dark portal lies the Outlands, the new BC zone and it's heavily guarded and will be opened with a world event similar to Ahn Qiraj, in other words the Alliance and Horde will have to work together to open the portal.

No, no, no, not collecting 100000000 rabbit hides or w/e again please.

[MongoJerry]

No, no, no, not collecting 100000000 rabbit hides or w/e again please.

The scepter line was really cool, though. The race to be the first guild to make a scepter was brutally fierce on Tichondrius involving real bona fide world PvP with hundreds of people and multiple guilds helping each other out -- and hundreds of people trying to disrupt the opposing faction from completing their scepters. The Core (with some significant help from T A O) got the first scepter made. Woohoo!

Then, we found out that there really could be more than one person with a scepter and that you couldn't use the scepter until people had collected the 1000000 linen cloth and all that. Oh, well. It was still really fun.

[oldmandennis]

The article contains enough errors and poor translations that I hope this is not true. Or that they get rid of it in beta.

I don't know, it just seems stupid to me, as an inital emotional reaction.

The second reaction is "Will somebody please think of the pugs!". "This is a super easy group". "Super easy sucks!" "I need medium easy to get [silly sword]" "You noobs shut up! Normal is the level where epixz start dropping! It is stupid to do less then normal!".

For most stuff, it's not usually that easy to find a group. If you are going to turn each dungeon into 5... I guess thats one way to keep the cauals busy for a while. Make a purple item quest only completable in the ultra hard level, and make ultra hard as tough as raids (takes good players weeks to figure out).

PS the scepter should be parelley completable. Its still alot of effort, even if 40 people could do it at a time.:(

[Yurup]

Difficultie settings? Bleh!

[Zarathustra]

Difficultie settings? Bleh!

Hang on. They're more or less putting a "/players #" command into World of Warcraft?

I hope that article is a fraud. Because if it's not... wow.

[oldmandennis]

Hang on. They're more or less putting a "/players #" command into World of Warcraft?

I hope that article is a fraud. Because if it's not... wow.

/players #?

Like the dungeon is tuned to the number of players entering? Because that section of the article read to me like the already published info about hellfire - one low 60 wing, one high 60 wing one 70 wing one 40 man raid.

Of course it could mean anything, with the crapulant translation and all.

It seemed pretty clear that they are toying with the idea of a leader definable difficulty level though. I guess there is a whole beta to beat that silly idea out of their head.

[teske]

/players #?

/players # was a command in diablo 2.
Basically monster health (and experience gained) skaled with the number of players. That is with 8 players the monsters had 5 times the health and you gained more experience.
/players # increased the monsters health as if # players were there.

As only the hitpoints skaled it wasn't actually a big difference in difficulty. In fact I don't think it would work.

[teske]

Among the innovations that will be introduced in the Burning Crusade are difficulty settings that the party leader can choose when starting up an instance:
Read the article for even more information on the Burning Crusade. I've given you a topic. Now discuss!

Another german news site has a different take on that:

http://wow.ingame.de/wow/bc/bc.php

Geplant ist zudem eine Möglichkeit, die Instanzen in zwei verschiedene Schwierigkeitsstufen setzen zu können. Z. B. könnte ein Level 61 - 63 Wing auf Stufe 70 aufgestockt , der Schwierigkeitsgrad entsprechend angepasst werden: Die Gegner teilen mehr Schaden aus usw. Im Ganzen soll es für Stufe 70-Spieler eine größere Herausforderung darstellen.

To translate:
Two difficult settings
- normal (for example balanced for level 61-63)
- hard, balanced for level 70

[Descended]

I'm just seeing negative reaction to switchable instance difficulty, but only oldmandennis provided a reason for the dislike.

As a casual player, I'm looking forward with hope that this will be a feature. Assuming I'm theorizing the human behavior end of this correctly, I'd much rather advertise on lfg for more members for an X difficulty setting run of instance Y because, after a shaking out period where people learn what you need to be able to do to handle each difficulty setting, you're more likely to get a group together that is both rewarded by and capable of doing the instance at that difficulty. The same filtering theory should apply to choosing whom you send tells to, when looking to join an instance group.

*Edit* Teske's last post blows that idea away.

[The Gnu]

We've already seen this in action with the 45 minute baron run. Everybody is going to want "super duper extra hard" runs, and most PuGs will collapse into quivering piles of drama when it turns out it actually is super duper extra hard to complete the instance.

Feels a bit like they're trying to get x (x being the number of difficulties) times the content without much extra work.

*Edit* Also missed Teske's post.

[Monkey]

Another german news site has a different take on that:

http://wow.ingame.de/wow/bc/bc.php

Geplant ist zudem eine Möglichkeit, die Instanzen in zwei verschiedene Schwierigkeitsstufen setzen zu können. Z. B. könnte ein Level 61 - 63 Wing auf Stufe 70 aufgestockt , der Schwierigkeitsgrad entsprechend angepasst werden: Die Gegner teilen mehr Schaden aus usw. Im Ganzen soll es für Stufe 70-Spieler eine größere Herausforderung darstellen.

To translate:
Two difficult settings
- normal (for example balanced for level 61-63)
- hard, balanced for level 70

I have thought for a long time that most of the 1-59 instances are largely wasted because people run them a few times and move to the next instance. Then they get to 60 and run MC 4,985,049 times. It would be much cooler if people could get their phat epics out of a variety of instances just by bumping up the difficulty to /levelcap. So you could get your [helm of hawtness] from Van Cleef or go get some [boots of pure awesome] from Thermaplugg.

Edit: it was too early in the morning for me to spell 'phat' correctly.

[Warlock]

Assuming the intent is there, I'd hope the Beta lets them refine it rather than abandoning the concept. I really like the idea. I'd love to have been able to dial the difficulty of 1.11 Scholo back up a few notches (though perhaps without the release bugs) in return for an appropriately scaled carrot... or to leave it at default if I'm just killing a couple of hours with a PUG. A system that rewards skilled small group players, allows raiders to find appropriate challenge on off nights and extends the life of the dungeons in general? Sign me up. I don't see how giving an extra option to players can be a bad thing - those that aren't interested can just play on the default setting. Arguments over difficulty won't be harder than "standard or 45 min baron?" or "which optional bosses are we doing?" are now.

[Brista]

The article contains enough errors and poor translations that I hope this is not true. Or that they get rid of it in beta.

I don't know, it just seems stupid to me, as an inital emotional reaction.

The second reaction is "Will somebody please think of the pugs!". "This is a super easy group". "Super easy sucks!" "I need medium easy to get [silly sword]" "You noobs shut up! Normal is the level where epixz start dropping! It is stupid to do less then normal!".

For most stuff, it's not usually that easy to find a group. If you are going to turn each dungeon into 5... I guess thats one way to keep the cauals busy for a while. Make a purple item quest only completable in the ultra hard level, and make ultra hard as tough as raids (takes good players weeks to figure out).

PS the scepter should be parelley completable. Its still alot of effort, even if 40 people could do it at a time.:(

Dennis, that's a very good point and I'm sure it's a realistic appraisal of how a lot of the player base will react

What I don't agree on is that it's a bad thing

I've found that doing the Strat 45 runs unsuccessfully in a series of runs has been very very good experience. It's improved me and others as a player, it's made me much more aware of who can "cut it" and who can't - something one doesn't necessarily discover in 40 man raids. I even half-jokingly said to a friend that if I ever decide to run a raid guild I'll require people to have done Strat 45 first

I've met some amazingly good pug players and recruited a couple for our guild

I'm firmly in favour of skill-based quests

Consider this, what do you want as the means of progress?

1) - Time spent (leading to afk bots in AV, mindless hours of repetitive grinding)
2) - Skill
3) - Ability to find and play with people on your own wavelength if you're a decent player
4) - Ability to find 4 random idiots and scrape through a super easy dungeon by the skin of your teeth
5) - Money (things like the 10 Stonescale Oil + 6 large brilliant shards parts of 0.5 series are purely money based)
6) - some other method

For me it's 2 and 3. I'd prefer to invest time to become a better player and find like-minded people than simply invest time. 30 hours working out a hard 45 minute run beats 30 hours grinding, ymmv. I don't care if someone with better gear and a circle of great players did it in 45 minutes the day it came out and it's taking me 30 hours +

Next if you have to establish a decent reputation as a solid player to get into any decent pug that may change people's playstyles. We have 2 or 3 notable morons at level 60 on our server who no one will guild or pug with - they're pretty exceptional. But we, like you, have tons of the people who are a little bit raw, a little intolerant, a little arrogant, which all together leads to pug drama when things go wrong. They're not awful players, they dont ninja or hearth halfway through but they're people you have to grit your teeth to play with. They're probably a lot better with guild than they are with pugs but in pugs they are condescending while being the reason the group is struggling. The "I had to waste a Vanish cos u can't hold aggro" types.

Those people will have to shape up if grouping becomes more based on whether you are known to be a decent player and that's really good for WoW.

[oldmandennis]

Geplant ist zudem eine Möglichkeit, die Instanzen in zwei verschiedene Schwierigkeitsstufen setzen zu können. Z. B. könnte ein Level 61 - 63 Wing auf Stufe 70 aufgestockt , der Schwierigkeitsgrad entsprechend angepasst werden: Die Gegner teilen mehr Schaden aus usw. Im Ganzen soll es für Stufe 70-Spieler eine größere Herausforderung darstellen.

To translate:
Two difficult settings
- normal (for example balanced for level 61-63)
- hard, balanced for level 70

I don't speak german, but the fact that there is wing in the description makes me think that it is describing the Hellfire Citidel again.

I have thought for a long time that most of the 1-59 instances are largely wasted because people run them a few times and move to the next instance.

Untrue. The last 10 levels or so of dungeons are reused. Ok, ST is just good for going back and getting your class trinket, and Mauradon is just used because of goofy itemization for NR. But BRD/BRS see a ton of action because of unique items (HOJ/finkles skinner) and the fact they are gateways to other content. Strath/scholo have shoulder enchants going for them, and orbs will probably be necessary for the expasion still. People will still do ZG for the other shoulder enchant, as well as their head/leg enchant.

I've kindof softened towards the idea overnight. I still think it is taking the easy way out - trying to get 5 dungeons for the price of one. But hey, I think it will be funny. I'm willing to bet some of the "I hate raiding I'm too skilled for it" crowd will turn out to not be as skilled as they think. I know the MT of the leading horde guild on my server couldn't make it through a super-hard difficulty level, I bet there are a lot of hard-core raiders who couldn't either.

It could be very amusing to watch guilds crack up under the stress of their 5-10 best players refusing to go to instances with the people who are just filling out thier rosters.

I do worry that even ultra-hard mode woln't have the sort of gear and skill checks that 40man dungeons do. If they are going to have raid like rewards, there had better be something like "arcane explosion for 1000 every 5 seconds, scaling to 5000 on ultra-hard". Joe average player -shouldn't- be able to finish these dungeons on ultra hard, not if they are going to start dropping "epics for casuals".

[teske]

I don't speak german, but the fact that there is wing in the description makes me think that it is describing the Hellfire Citidel again.

Since you asked: It ain't really talking about a specific instance. The other article basically claimed it was for every instance. This article doesn't really say so, still I think "wing" is meant to be synonymous with instance.

[MongoJerry]

The article contains enough errors and poor translations that I hope this is not true. Or that they get rid of it in beta.

I don't know, it just seems stupid to me, as an inital emotional reaction.

It's a translation of an article on the german site of worldofwar.net. The translation's bad, but the information is correct.

Wow, I don't understand your negative reaction at all, oldmandennis. This is an awesome idea that would allow for a lot more replayability. People in greens (or the equivalent in BC, which will probably be blues) can enter an instance at a low difficulty setting, struggle through it, get some loot that improves their gear, and then gradually up the difficulty.

At the high end, it'll give raiders like myself something fun and challenging to do between raids. Right now, the only reason I go into Stratholme is to farm some orbs for enchants. My guild runs through SM Strat are a boring snoozefest as we pull 2-3 packs at a time and live, because our gear is so far and above anything the instance was designed for. It would be awesome to be able to hit an option that says "super uber setting -- only for people wearing Naxx gear, please!" and play an intense 5-man instance again. I miss playing really tough challenging 5-man instances. Unfortunately, bringing up a twink doesn't help, either, because most of the level 60 instances have been watered down so much.

Since you asked: It ain't really talking about a specific instance. The other article basically claimed it was for every instance. This article doesn't really say so, still I think "wing" is meant to be synonymous with instance.

Yeah, the articles are describing the Hellfire Citadel and other instances that Blizzard is designing. They're designing winged dungeons like the Scarlet Monastery and Dire Maul, because of how popular they are. It's a lot easier to get a run together that will only going to take an hour and a half versus the three hour plus dungeon crawls that some of the other instances were like. (Scholomance and Stratholme had a lot of trash mobs removed to reduce how long it took to run them). Different instance wings will be designed for different levels of players.

However, in addition to having different instance wings, there will also be difficulty settings that the party leader can set. So, the easy setting might have fewer trash mobs and have mobs with lower health and that deal less damage. At the other extreme, the hard setting might have more mobs with higher health and that deal more damage. The idea is that you run the dungeon at the lower difficulty settings to learn the dungeon and improve your gear a little and then gradually ramp up the difficulty to get a bigger challenge and get even better loot. Thus, there is much more replayability. My only concern is that the hardest difficulty setting should be made to be *really* hard -- as in, it could only be completed with the absolute best equipment available and only by players who are skilled and know how to use that equipment.

One cool thing I just thought of is that it would also be very scalable. So, after people get better equipment over time and raid bigger and bader level 70 dungeons that get introduced later, Blizzard can always go back to the older dungeons and introduce a new "super de duper ultimate" difficulty setting.

[ZugzwangZeitgeist]

The second reaction is "Will somebody please think of the pugs!". "This is a super easy group". "Super easy sucks!" "I need medium easy to get [silly sword]" "You noobs shut up! Normal is the level where epixz start dropping! It is stupid to do less then normal!".

... so this is a bad idea because stupid people will make poor use of it? Is this why we can't have nice things?