Alright so my lock will be 60 very soon

[Kevin]

So in my grand warlock experiment, mostly soloing to 60 with some instances thrown in and a little duo'ing now and then I leveled as demonologist and then headed downt he affliction tree. But I was 31 deep in demon before going into affliction. It worked fine I found some fun ways to kill quickly (Have your voidy garther 4+ mobs, slap a DoT or 2 on both, sac the voidy and hellfire everything with the shield up even with having to resummon and tap and such it can kill very quickly), I was able to use demons when needed and sac then at other times. I always focused on + damage gear and with very little twinking I'm sitting at 169 all damage and +21 more shadow damage with half a level to go to L60.

She's an herbalist/tailor (though I really might drop tailor since I've got my robe of the void) and I will be doing some solo grinding for herbs for sure. I will also likely play her in 5 mans and maybe the odd ZG/AQ20 here and there before the expansion hits, might even mess around with some PvP. Little to no chance of ever seeing a 40 man raid. So I want to pack a little more punch in the small group stuff. I don't really want to go SM/Ruin just because. So I'm thinking of two different builds that go fairly deep in demonology but get some other stuff help kick up the damage a bit more.

Demon + Affliction

Demon + Destruction

Both builds share the same core of 21 demonology. I figure the pet will be sac'd most of the time, but the points to dig down the tree were spent to make the pets as strong as possible in case I do have one out for CC or blood pact or just because it makes grinding easier (fel puppies are rather fun against the Saytrs in Felwood). But likely something will be sac'd. I've recently passed 3400 HP so sac'ing voidy for the health regen can actually speed up grinding over just having the ho out with soul link up and doing a life drain up every 4th or 5th kill. 3K HP seems to be the break point for that. Again recall that I was bit odd with the gear choices and haven't hit any of the end game instances past BRD and even then only 1 BRD run. I expect my HP to just keep climbing and the +damage to stay pretty much the same.

The affliction build would up shadow damage, so stronger DoT's and shadow bolts. A sac'd ho in the instances making that even better. With the solo stuff I figure I would never die. With all the life generation options being able to get a pet back up quick even if it just for a sac for a shield, what not. Of course having a hunter in top end MC gear I'm not sure how much solo grinding I'll do with this toon.

The demon + destruction build looks to do fun stuff for more damage. Sac'd pet again for upping the damage. Not as survivable (since without talents you can't drain tank and there is no way the pets could hold aggro since they can't really hold it now. :)

I'm leaning towards the first build which is more or less rearranging a few points in demon from my current build and taking 6 points from there and getting siphon life and shadow mastery. It would be a playstyle I'm already familar with on the lock. The other reason is my alliance lock is destruction but since he never gets played that doesn't mean much.


What I'm not sure on is which would actually do more damage in an 5 man situation. I don't think either will out damage SM/ruin, especially in my current and expected gear, but I could see both of them packing a decent punch. Since I've managed to push 200 DPS in BRD already and these changes should only up that. Just looking for thoughts, possible tweaks to the builds, etc.

[TheWesson]

So in my grand warlock experiment, mostly soloing to 60 with some instances thrown in and a little duo'ing now and then I leveled as demonologist and then headed downt he affliction tree. But I was 31 deep in demon before going into affliction. It worked fine I found some fun ways to kill quickly (Have your voidy garther 4+ mobs, slap a DoT or 2 on both, sac the voidy and hellfire everything with the shield up even with having to resummon and tap and such it can kill very quickly), I was able to use demons when needed and sac then at other times. I always focused on + damage gear and with very little twinking I'm sitting at 169 all damage and +21 more shadow damage with half a level to go to L60.

She's an herbalist/tailor (though I really might drop tailor since I've got my robe of the void) and I will be doing some solo grinding for herbs for sure. I will also likely play her in 5 mans and maybe the odd ZG/AQ20 here and there before the expansion hits, might even mess around with some PvP. Little to no chance of ever seeing a 40 man raid. So I want to pack a little more punch in the small group stuff. I don't really want to go SM/Ruin just because. So I'm thinking of two different builds that go fairly deep in demonology but get some other stuff help kick up the damage a bit more.

Demon + Affliction

Demon + Destruction

Both builds share the same core of 21 demonology. I figure the pet will be sac'd most of the time, but the points to dig down the tree were spent to make the pets as strong as possible in case I do have one out for CC or blood pact or just because it makes grinding easier (fel puppies are rather fun against the Saytrs in Felwood). But likely something will be sac'd. I've recently passed 3400 HP so sac'ing voidy for the health regen can actually speed up grinding over just having the ho out with soul link up and doing a life drain up every 4th or 5th kill. 3K HP seems to be the break point for that. Again recall that I was bit odd with the gear choices and haven't hit any of the end game instances past BRD and even then only 1 BRD run. I expect my HP to just keep climbing and the +damage to stay pretty much the same.

The affliction build would up shadow damage, so stronger DoT's and shadow bolts. A sac'd ho in the instances making that even better. With the solo stuff I figure I would never die. With all the life generation options being able to get a pet back up quick even if it just for a sac for a shield, what not. Of course having a hunter in top end MC gear I'm not sure how much solo grinding I'll do with this toon.

The demon + destruction build looks to do fun stuff for more damage. Sac'd pet again for upping the damage. Not as survivable (since without talents you can't drain tank and there is no way the pets could hold aggro since they can't really hold it now. :)

I'm leaning towards the first build which is more or less rearranging a few points in demon from my current build and taking 6 points from there and getting siphon life and shadow mastery. It would be a playstyle I'm already familar with on the lock. The other reason is my alliance lock is destruction but since he never gets played that doesn't mean much.
What I'm not sure on is which would actually do more damage in an 5 man situation. I don't think either will out damage SM/ruin, especially in my current and expected gear, but I could see both of them packing a decent punch. Since I've managed to push 200 DPS in BRD already and these changes should only up that. Just looking for thoughts, possible tweaks to the builds, etc.

Demonic Sacrifice is an excellent option. The only minor quibble is that you can't really sac your demon if you are on seduce duty in a 5-man (that being why I went back to Dark Pact.)

The first build: No Shadowburn, Bane, or Improved Shadowbolt, which will hurt nuke DPS quite a bit. So I'd think for 5-mans, assuming tank can hold aggro, the second build would be better.

Siphon Life is not useful for instances, nor is Fel Concentration .. Affliction in general is great for soloing and not so good for instances, where things tend to die too fast for DoTs to run. (An initial Immolate or Corruption is often all that you can really squeeze in.)

My build is 31/9/11, which I think is a good overall compromise, working decently for both instance DPS and farming/grinding.

19/21/11 would be a good compromise as well.

Oh yes -- Improved Drain Life is considered to be kind of crappy (improves only base Drain Life). Why not get Curse of Exhaustion + a couple of notches of improvement to play with instead? You won't want to slow things very often, but when you do ...

[Icebird]

Have you considered the 7/21/21+2 build that seems to be the damage spec of choice amongst discerning warlocks these days?

For 21 points in Destruction, you get the best parts of the tree with hardly a point wasted. I'd say its only worth going deeper if you want to get Conflagorate, and make fire your magic school of choice.

For 7 points in Affliction, you get instant Corruption and Improved Life Tap. (I'm specced MD/Ruin at the moment and I miss instant Corruption so much).

Plus this build givs you two points left over to put where you like.

Chris

[Arnath]

I'm going to agree with Icebird and say that you should go either 7/21/21+2, or, if you really like destruction, give NF/Conflag a try. I don't particularly like MD/Ruin builds, particularly for soloing/pvp-ing because the lack of improved lifetap and instacast Corruption is really annoying. 7/21/21+2 is a great soloing/raiding/instancing build because you get a LOT of utility out of Demonic Sacrifice. It lets you adapt to all sorts of situations (I don't personally really like the build, but that's beside the point). I've been told NF/Conflag is a lot of fun, although I've never tried it myself. Basically, I'd suggest the 7/21/21+2 build.

[Concillian]

Demonic Sacrifice is an excellent option. The only minor quibble is that you can't really sac your demon if you are on seduce duty in a 5-man (that being why I went back to Dark Pact.)

The first build: No Shadowburn, Bane, or Improved Shadowbolt, which will hurt nuke DPS quite a bit. So I'd think for 5-mans, assuming tank can hold aggro, the second build would be better.

Siphon Life is not useful for instances, nor is Fel Concentration .. Affliction in general is great for soloing and not so good for instances, where things tend to die too fast for DoTs to run. (An initial Immolate or Corruption is often all that you can really squeeze in.)

Oh yes -- Improved Drain Life is considered to be kind of crappy (improves only base Drain Life). Why not get Curse of Exhaustion + a couple of notches of improvement to play with instead? You won't want to slow things very often, but when you do ...

As someone who has played with a SM / DS build quite a bit, I'd call most of this accurate. Drain life and Siphon have some aggro issues, in that the DPS combined with the healing can get you in trouble sometimes. CoA is usually not in use in favor or CoE or CoS and Corruption may or may not be beneficial. Most of the affliction tree is wasted in instances.

I started out doing a lot of sac voidy in instances for low maintenance, but found that the health ticks draw aggro just like normal healing. You probably have the right plan with sac the succubus.

DS + SM with sac'ed succubus puts shadowbolt DPS in a good place. A little lower DPS than an SM / Ruin build, but not bad. very consistent damage.

[Kevin]

A general thanks to everyone for the info and feedback. I didn't know that about that drain life talent (I like to get my info from Lurkers first and if I can't get it here I then look elsewhere call me site-ist. :)

You guys have me pondering a couple of other changes no matter which way I go. And the 7/21/21+2 does look good if I get stuff in the destruction tree. I very well may save that for later, but I think I want to play more with affliction right now.

Demonic Sacrifice is an excellent option. The only minor quibble is that you can't really sac your demon if you are on seduce duty in a 5-man (that being why I went back to Dark Pact.)

The first build: No Shadowburn, Bane, or Improved Shadowbolt, which will hurt nuke DPS quite a bit. So I'd think for 5-mans, assuming tank can hold aggro, the second build would be better.

Siphon Life is not useful for instances, nor is Fel Concentration .. Affliction in general is great for soloing and not so good for instances, where things tend to die too fast for DoTs to run. (An initial Immolate or Corruption is often all that you can really squeeze in.)

Oh yes -- Improved Drain Life is considered to be kind of crappy (improves only base Drain Life). Why not get Curse of Exhaustion + a couple of notches of improvement to play with instead? You won't want to slow things very often, but when you do ...

As someone who has played with a SM / DS build quite a bit, I'd call most of this accurate. Drain life and Siphon have some aggro issues, in that the DPS combined with the healing can get you in trouble sometimes. CoA is usually not in use in favor or CoE or CoS and Corruption may or may not be beneficial. Most of the affliction tree is wasted in instances.

I started out doing a lot of sac voidy in instances for low maintenance, but found that the health ticks draw aggro just like normal healing. You probably have the right plan with sac the succubus.

DS + SM with sac'ed succubus puts shadowbolt DPS in a good place. A little lower DPS than an SM / Ruin build, but not bad. very consistent damage.

Cool. I know with the slower cast SB's that I might have some trouble with getting them off in time with some of the DPS some of the 5 man groups put out. :)

I'm not all that worried about aggro, I'll have you tanking for me after all! :) Drain hasn't been a problem so far but that might be a recent thing. Last reports I saw (from looking up stuff for warrior aggro actually) was that drain life only did threat equal to the damage. Siphon might still do double though.

And I do know that a lot of the affliction tree is wasted in instances but I will still do solo grinding stuff. I just don't know how much yet. So I do want to keep my drains viable for solo play still and really it's not like there is much else I can put it in.

I'm wondering about supression as well. I don't think any 5 man boss is higher than L61 so more than 3 points in it doesn't seem like it will benefit much.

So I tweaked the SM + DS since I think I want to play with that more before I try I something else. Any other thoughts from folks? Again that 7/21/21 + 2 does look fun but for right now I've decided I want to just go with tweaking more or less what I grew up with for a bit more power. I might even respec now so that I can use it solo for that last half level. :)

[TheWesson]

A general thanks to everyone for the info and feedback. I didn't know that about that drain life talent (I like to get my info from Lurkers first and if I can't get it here I then look elsewhere call me site-ist. :)

You guys have me pondering a couple of other changes no matter which way I go. And the 7/21/21+2 does look good if I get stuff in the destruction tree. I very well may save that for later, but I think I want to play more with affliction right now.
As someone who has played with a SM / DS build quite a bit, I'd call most of this accurate. Drain life and Siphon have some aggro issues, in that the DPS combined with the healing can get you in trouble sometimes. CoA is usually not in use in favor or CoE or CoS and Corruption may or may not be beneficial. Most of the affliction tree is wasted in instances.

I started out doing a lot of sac voidy in instances for low maintenance, but found that the health ticks draw aggro just like normal healing. You probably have the right plan with sac the succubus.

DS + SM with sac'ed succubus puts shadowbolt DPS in a good place. A little lower DPS than an SM / Ruin build, but not bad. very consistent damage.
Cool. I know with the slower cast SB's that I might have some trouble with getting them off in time with some of the DPS some of the 5 man groups put out. :)

I'm not all that worried about aggro, I'll have you tanking for me after all! :) Drain hasn't been a problem so far but that might be a recent thing. Last reports I saw (from looking up stuff for warrior aggro actually) was that drain life only did threat equal to the damage. Siphon might still do double though.

And I do know that a lot of the affliction tree is wasted in instances but I will still do solo grinding stuff. I just don't know how much yet. So I do want to keep my drains viable for solo play still and really it's not like there is much else I can put it in.

I'm wondering about supression as well. I don't think any 5 man boss is higher than L61 so more than 3 points in it doesn't seem like it will benefit much.

So I tweaked the SM + DS since I think I want to play with that more before I try I something else. Any other thoughts from folks? Again that 7/21/21 + 2 does look fun but for right now I've decided I want to just go with tweaking more or less what I grew up with for a bit more power. I might even respec now so that I can use it solo for that last half level. :)

Looks good to me. I saw CoEx and it reminded me you haven't discussed PvP. Important to you?

"Unholy Power" (improve pet melee dmg by 3%/point) is really not worthwhile for top-levelled players, since player spell damage is vastly greater than pet melee damage by that point. Not many worthwhile points in Demonology (besides the few OMG talents), though, so ... Fel Stamina?

Anyhow thats just a stray point.

[Icebird]

Your SM/DS build gets my seal of approval. Like TheWesson says, Demonology is a weird tree. It's got some great talents at the bottom, great talents at the top, and filler in the middle.

Chris