Posts: 3
Threads: 1
Joined: Sep 2006
I had an Overlord's Helm drop for the first time ever last night. However, there seems to be some sort of bug with it. When I or the person in the game when it dropped equipped it, it goes red like when a character doesn't meet it's requirements, and I don't get any bonuses or AC out of it. When I take it off, it goes back to normal and when I equip it again it goes back to red. If I use a character that wasn't in the game when it dropped, they can equip it fine. We tried making many new games but it just won't work for the characters that were in the game when it dropped. Anyone else have or hear of this problem?
Posts: 904
Threads: 16
Joined: Feb 2003
Quote:I had an Overlord's Helm drop for the first time ever last night. However, there seems to be some sort of bug with it. When I or the person in the game when it dropped equipped it, it goes red like when a character doesn't meet it's requirements, and I don't get any bonuses or AC out of it.
That's because you don't meet its requirements: it's dropping one of your stats below the allowed minimum.
-Lemmy
Posts: 50
Threads: 9
Joined: Apr 2006
Quote:That's because you don't meet its requirements: it's dropping one of your stats below the allowed minimum.
-Lemmy
jarulf's guide:
+20 strength, -20 magic, +15 dexterity, +5 vitality, altered durability (15)
how much strength is needed to wear it? if it's adding to strength, then it's not lowering strength to make it turn red. what stats are required to wear this thing? i never did understand why this thing did do this.
Posts: 54
Threads: 7
Joined: Jun 2005
Quote:jarulf's guide:
+20 strength, -20 magic, +15 dexterity, +5 vitality, altered durability (15)
how much strength is needed to wear it? if it's adding to strength, then it's not lowering strength to make it turn red. what stats are required to wear this thing? i never did understand why this thing did do this.
Magic can't fall below 0.
Aarda's still throwing roses at the rain...
Posts: 3
Threads: 1
Joined: Sep 2006
Quote:Magic can't fall below 0.
That explains it then.
Posts: 50
Threads: 9
Joined: Apr 2006
Quote:That explains it then.
so get your magic to 20 and you can use it. seems like a lame item though.
Posts: 904
Threads: 16
Joined: Feb 2003
Quote:so get your magic to 20 and you can use it. seems like a lame item though.
In the long run, it's nothing special. But if it's found by a low-ish level character, there aren't many helms comparable to it. The biggest drawback with it, for a warrior, is the need to dump two levels-up into magic to use it. All in all, though, he still comes out ahead.
-Lemmy
Posts: 3
Threads: 1
Joined: Sep 2006
Quote:In the long run, it's nothing special. But if it's found by a low-ish level character, there aren't many helms comparable to it. The biggest drawback with it, for a warrior, is the need to dump two levels-up into magic to use it. All in all, though, he still comes out ahead.
-Lemmy
Yeah I found it with a new character so was good at the time.
Posts: 13
Threads: 1
Joined: Jul 2003
I beg to differ. Mind you, this is the only helm apart from Gotter that gives you BOTH as much as +20str AND +15dex WITHOUT the disadvantage of zero resists; In other words, no other helm gives that much str and dex combined. This is IMO highly useful for some types of low ac warriors who need to pump up their effectiveness as much as possible combined with a fast sword due to the need to be FAST.
Not least, it really looks cool - the graphics are sort of a mix of byzantine/roman and far east style elements. Because of all that its the helm of choice and the only helm of my law :-).
I even seriously consider giving it one day to my bloodslayer (heck even at the cost of some - not all - resists) as it is damn near impossible to pump up dmg to levels sufficient to dispose of hell/hell advocs RELIABLY with one blow (even at high clvl). Every point of dmg counts here and the overlords helm perhaps might get me one step closer to that holy grail :-)) (right now I am at about 65% advocs with one blow so that could make it say 70%?)
Quote:In the long run, it's nothing special.
-Lemmy
Posts: 22
Threads: 1
Joined: Nov 2006
10-30-2007, 05:24 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2007, 05:29 PM by Arkain.)
Hum... well... depends on what you need... or want.
Let's compare OH with RC:
OH offers:
AC 5 (iirc)
+ 20 STR
+ 15 DEX
+ 5 VIT
- 20 MAG
RC offers:
AC 40
+ 10 all
+ 40 mana
+ 10% light radius
Therefore you gain 10 STR, 5 DEX and of course no light radius change in terms of positiv %. You lose 40 mana, 20 MAG, 5 VIT and 35 AC.
One might debate whether the AC is really important. Depending on what you play it can be important. The big problem I have with OH is that I gain almost nothing if I compare it with RC. If we are talking about warriors here I actually lose 35 AC, after all 60 mana (+ every other benefit of high magic) and 10 life. What I gain is a little damage as well as about 2.5% to hit (and 1 AC through DEX). The loss is too big if you ask me.
If we talk about a BS-warrior... well... let's calculate. An Advocate has 583 life (iirc). 583/3 = ~194
So, without a critical hit you would need to have about 194 minimum damage to actually kill those monsters with every hit. Quite a feat do do that.I prefer to have high resistances when I face enemies who shoot their magical attacks at me (like... mages) to survive longer instead of hoping that I can kill them fast enough with a X% chance.
Of course it's just my opinion.
Array
Let me elaborate on what Sheep said... it's called humour.[/quote]
Posts: 2
Threads: 0
Joined: Oct 2007
Not really to the point, Arkain
Quote: If we are talking about warriors here I actually lose 35 AC, after all 60 mana and 10 life. What I gain is a little damage as well as about 2.5% to hit (and 1 AC through DEX). The loss is too big if you ask me.
Saladin talked about his (l)ow (a)rmor class (w)arrior which makes the loss of 35 AC pretty unimportant, secondly -considering advo killing- the loss of 60 (actually you would lose 70 i think) mana doesnt hurt to bad either and the 10 lost hitpoints are insignificant.
Coming closer to 100% one-hit-killing those advos OTOH is of quite some importance since with every additional hit you need with BS they are more likely to evade you.
Off Topic @Saladin: on which realm and to which times do you usually play? since i am an avid LA2H player also
i would like to team up sometime;)
Posts: 22
Threads: 1
Joined: Nov 2006
10-30-2007, 08:22 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2007, 10:50 PM by Arkain.)
Um... no.
Quote:Hum... well... depends on what you need... or want. [...]
One might debate whether the AC is really important. Depending on what you play it can be important.
I was simply comparing them, not aiming at a particular style to play your character. Therefore, to be complete, one needs to mention the difference in AC (and actually light radius, gna). I took into account that he was talking about LAW. But actually I thought it is not necessary to mention that AC is of no concern if you play that way. As for mana: it is 50, I misstyped (40 from the mana bonus and 10 from the +all).
Now I wish I did not delete the part where I was working with several calculations. To get to the point: you need about 100 strength points through your equipment to have the necessary minimum damage to be really sure about it (without critical hits). Of course one needs not to be perfect and these calculations count only for (about) max level anyway. But taken this into account it is even harder early on and you might ask yourself if it is really worth it. You can gain 45 if you use gold/heavens jewelry. Another 20 if you use OH and yet another 20 if you want to use an armor with the giants-suffix. Which adds up to +85. So you would have to use gold/titans jewelry (at least some) and therefore weaken your to hit, your mana and your life. Of course: you could kill the Advocate (maybe) with one blow... but you have low resistances and low life. Assuming you use at least two gold/heavens jewels you have +30 all, which is 60 life. Therefore your level 49/50 warrior has 376 life. A fireball deals, according to JG, 66-106 damage (I guess no splash included, so it is actually something like ~120). Wanna calculate (assuming some obsidian armor... although in the case of level 16 you can obviously use a ruby armor... if you want to carry it with you all the time, that is)? At least I tend to have a bigger amount of life for the sake of comfortability. As there is rarely one lonely Advocate around it might get (a bit) annoying to drink or heal every few seconds. Then there are Blood Knights. Of course these are easy, but together with the permanent shooting of the Advocates it might, again might, get difficult to successfully battle them. Especially when your chances to him them are only at around 80-85%. As for me, I prefer hitting almost everytime (95%) with a bit less damage over missing 15-20% or more of the time with more damage.
It really depends on equipment and level as you have a set goal. Without a proper level and proper equipment you - simply said - have no chance to achieve this goal. And for what? Having a chance to kill one enemy type with one blow? There are other levels than 16, you know? Or would you want to switch equipment everytime you reach it? Maybe I am just lazy, but why would I want to have my inventory full with alternate gear? I am not a player who really loves playing SWAT style.
On the other hand, I must admit that I have little experience with low AC *axe* (especially BS as I tried this only once with really inferior equipment) warriors and maybe am thinking too much about possibilities. And yes, I do ignore the fact that more damage helps against every demon out there. But saladin was referring to Advocates specifically, so...
And another thing: my point is something about perfection. That is taking out the enemy 100% of the time without a critical hit. I do not know whether this is even wanted. If it really is only about getting a higher %-chance to kill them off with one blow without sacrificing too much I may be exaggerating a bit.
Array
Let me elaborate on what Sheep said... it's called humour.[/quote]
Posts: 904
Threads: 16
Joined: Feb 2003
Quote:I beg to differ. Mind you, this is the only helm apart from Gotter that gives you BOTH as much as +20str AND +15dex WITHOUT the disadvantage of zero resists; In other words, no other helm gives that much str and dex combined. This is IMO highly useful for some types of low ac warriors who need to pump up their effectiveness as much as possible combined with a fast sword due to the need to be FAST.
Once a Warrior (1) can hit his enemy (2) has stun damage, he's in the clear. The rest is a matter of playing him well. Assuming (1) and (2) are satisfied, Overlord's Helm might have +20 STR but for it to be effective it must actually reduce the number of swings necessary to kill an enemy. Likewise, +15 DEX is only effective if he uses a shield and doesn't yet have perfect blocking. With a LAW, I'd prefer (for instance) a ResAll/Stars helm, which would free up a ring slot for a +ToHit or +Mana prefix (depending on need).
Quote:I even seriously consider giving it one day to my bloodslayer (heck even at the cost of some - not all - resists) as it is damn near impossible to pump up dmg to levels sufficient to dispose of hell/hell advocs RELIABLY with one blow (even at high clvl). Every point of dmg counts here and the overlords helm perhaps might get me one step closer to that holy grail :-)) (right now I am at about 65% advocs with one blow so that could make it say 70%?)
Do some calculations and see where OLH will get you.
-Lem
Posts: 456
Threads: 36
Joined: Feb 2003
Quote:Do some calculations and see where OLH will get you.
Well, let's see...
If you are just concerned about advocates, you should remember that they have 0 AC; even with the hell mode AC bonus you will not need any gold item to hit them with every swing. So, assuming you are in it to pump damage, you'll be going for strength boosting items.
+30x3 from titans jewelry,
+20x2 from giants on armor/helm
-5 from Blood Slayer (4-12 + 100% dmg)
Level 50 warrior damamge = str*clvl/100 + weapon damage, therefore (250+30+30+30+20+20-5)*50/100 + (8 to 24) = 195.5 to 211.5. With x3 damage to demons, that puts you at 586.5 to 634.5, which is enough to kill Hell Advocates in a single swing 95% of the time (because you auto-miss 5%, of course). Just so you are aware, at level 49 with the same stats you'll only be doing 192 minimum base damage, just below the threshold to kill in a single swing. At level 45: 177 to 193 - never enough to kill in a single swing. If you really REALLY want to one-hit-KO advos in hell with your level 50 warrior, however, I would recommend dragons/titans jewelry and obsidian/giants armor and helm. At least then you will have workable mana and max resistances. I couldn't imagine why you would ever want to though. If one hit kills are your thing, pick up a copy of hellfire and play a barbarian/bard.
Posts: 13
Threads: 1
Joined: Jul 2003
Quote:+30x3 from titans jewelry,
+20x2 from giants on armor/helm
-5 from Blood Slayer (4-12 + 100% dmg)
Quote:If you really REALLY want to one-hit-KO advos in hell with your level 50 warrior, however, I would recommend dragons/titans jewelry and obsidian/giants armor and helm.
All true, but 1) I want to play 16 (bloodslayer) fluently without having to change gear all the time between knights and mages (its faster to stone curse non-one hit mages from time to time, or run away to deal with knights and come back right after that to dispose of bitten mages once the ai stops teleporting away, as appropriate) 2) he has a very lean inventory in order to accomodate the heft of potions - he has quite a consumption believe me :-) - so for both the reasons, carrying and changing armor or helm (obsi/stars anyway) is out of the question for being impractical (well, perhaps helm is marginally worth considering to -> giants as it takes 4 slots only). But youre true in that the jewelry does not actually all need to be gold all the time, and it takes few slots only - as currently only two of them are titans, and not even nearly perfect at that. Roughly counting three perfect titans would almost get me there - almost, which is naturally why it is what it is, a holy grail :-)
Quote:If one hit kills are your thing, pick up a copy of hellfire and play a barbarian/bard.
Been there, done that (axe barbarian). I just never really liked Hellfire.
Posts: 13
Threads: 1
Joined: Jul 2003
Quote:Once a Warrior (1) can hit his enemy (2) has stun damage, he's in the clear. The rest is a matter of playing him well. Assuming (1) and (2) are satisfied, Overlord's Helm might have +20 STR but for it to be effective it must actually reduce the number of swings necessary to kill an enemy. Likewise, +15 DEX is only effective if he uses a shield and doesn't yet have perfect blocking. With a LAW, I'd prefer (for instance) a ResAll/Stars helm, which would free up a ring slot for a +ToHit or +Mana prefix (depending on need).
Do some calculations and see where OLH will get you.
-Lem
With a law i want to play either completely without resistances (to block (or not block for additional adrenaline) magma balls and dog spit in caves) or with full resists in hell of course. Second thing is I really like Overlords due to being tired of RC (have had a gazillion characters who wear rc as their primary helm) so the slots for changing between res/no res is shirt (dont want to wear even an additional shield) + various jewelry. A highly subjective character to my highly subjective liking.
Posts: 904
Threads: 16
Joined: Feb 2003
Quote:A highly subjective character to my highly subjective liking.
In that case, all respectable characters wear TFoS. Everyone knows this.
-Lemmy
Posts: 456
Threads: 36
Joined: Feb 2003
11-09-2007, 07:35 AM
(This post was last modified: 11-09-2007, 07:35 AM by the Langolier.)
You could always get a kings/haste axe to deal with the knights. It wouldn't take up very much space in your inventory, plus it's always a good idea to separate knights from advo's on 16 anyways. It's never a bad idea to have a backup weapon either, especially one you can count on to hit enemies even when you otherwise naked. Could be good for dogs too. Just some ideas.
Quote:Been there, done that (axe barbarian). I just never really liked Hellfire.
I never understand this statement. Hellfire is the same thing as Diablo. If you don't like what is added (like the extra dungeons which are ugly), you can ignore it. Suppose you are playing in hell the only things that are different are the monsters have more HP and hellspawn are animals instead of demons. There are also a handful of low qlvl affixes that can be useful IF you even bother using them.
Posts: 13
Threads: 1
Joined: Jul 2003
My attempt at summary - and back to OH (and pairing it up with BS now).
First an introduction to the matter: For a long time I was playing BS basically in the following setup variations: 1. Obsi/stars shirt + Obsi/stars helm generally for mixed hell levels and levels with magical attackers only (around 80% time). One disadvantage only: below maximum possible damage (achievable with Gotter - and with OH). 2. Obsi/stars shirt + Helm of Sprits for late caves and hell levels with weaker critters, without maws (Guardians, Cave Vipers etc.). Reason for the limited usability of HoS: the loss of +to hit bonus that the obsi/stars helm gives, th drops below 170% which is not enough for stronger hell critters 3. Awe plate+Gotter for pure melee hell levels 4. Awe plate + obsi/stars helm for lvls 8-10 (illusion weavers, mixed attackers ), or with hos for upper cats and church.
Now for OH - OH may actually replace Gotter in a BS inventory for cleaner and faster results in pure melee hell levels only and against D). Reasons: 1. Limited visibility with Gotter - infra does not last all day, critters get closer unnoticed, less time to position oneself properly, worse general terrain overview, critter ai behaves less predictably 2. I get sloppy - if combined with awe plate (around 250 ac) I tend to lose "good habits" which tends to be fatal at times - even more often than with zero ac setup (as ac still far from autohit levels anyway). Due to the above, but mainly point 1., I generally find myself not using Gotter at all anymore and doing hell mostly with the 2 x obsi/stars setup only. OH cures the disadvantages of Gotter for BS purposes.
Why not Obsi helm of giants - no to hit bonus, i.e. same little problem as with HoS.
As for th needed - around 175% (but no less) suffice for everything including Blood Knights (you tend to miss a bit but they are relatively slow so once you get used to your percentage its ok). Difference between 95 % and 85% successful hit percentage negligible once you get used to a miss here and there, it still remains playable.
As for life needed - around 350hp suffice (actually there is little difference between warrior's base life and realistically reachable levels around 380hp as it is still the same for the main practical purpose - enough to safely survive 2 (but not 3) BK hits. Generally, every hitpoint helps of course.
And why Advocates - because they are the strongest opponents, always in lvl 16, and because its possible, even though in theory only - with my setup under 1) above, I would need 3 perfect gold/titans (or titans at least + 1 point of damage) for the "one hit wonder" :whistling:. Currently I am short of 14 points minimum dmg (181, thereof 6 points in imperfect titans and 7 in a gold/heavens ammy, two of which may be theoretically replaced with perfect non-gold titans right away for the specific application (thanks for the tip again). Kind of thought perfectionism, I agree.
(And, Hellfire is *really* not the same as Diablo, it just completely spoils the atmosphere not to mention it plays differently - but thats another story).
Quote:To get to the point: you need about 100 strength points through your equipment to have the necessary minimum damage to be really sure about it (without critical hits). Of course one needs not to be perfect and these calculations count only for (about) max level anyway. But taken this into account it is even harder early on and you might ask yourself if it is really worth it. You can gain 45 if you use gold/heavens jewelry. Another 20 if you use OH and yet another 20 if you want to use an armor with the giants-suffix. Which adds up to +85. So you would have to use gold/titans jewelry (at least some) and therefore weaken your to hit, your mana and your life. Of course: you could kill the Advocate (maybe) with one blow... but you have low resistances and low life. Assuming you use at least two gold/heavens jewels you have +30 all, which is 60 life. Therefore your level 49/50 warrior has 376 life. A fireball deals, according to JG, 66-106 damage (I guess no splash included, so it is actually something like ~120). Wanna calculate (assuming some obsidian armor... although in the case of level 16 you can obviously use a ruby armor... if you want to carry it with you all the time, that is)? At least I tend to have a bigger amount of life for the sake of comfortability. As there is rarely one lonely Advocate around it might get (a bit) annoying to drink or heal every few seconds. Then there are Blood Knights. Of course these are easy, but together with the permanent shooting of the Advocates it might, again might, get difficult to successfully battle them. Especially when your chances to him them are only at around 80-85%. As for me, I prefer hitting almost everytime (95%) with a bit less damage over missing 15-20% or more of the time with more damage.
It really depends on equipment and level as you have a set goal. Without a proper level and proper equipment you - simply said - have no chance to achieve this goal. And for what? Having a chance to kill one enemy type with one blow? There are other levels than 16, you know? Or would you want to switch equipment everytime you reach it? Maybe I am just lazy, but why would I want to have my inventory full with alternate gear? I am not a player who really loves playing SWAT style.
On the other hand, I must admit that I have little experience with low AC *axe* (especially BS as I tried this only once with really inferior equipment) warriors and maybe am thinking too much about possibilities. And yes, I do ignore the fact that more damage helps against every demon out there. But saladin was referring to Advocates specifically, so...
And another thing: my point is something about perfection. That is taking out the enemy 100% of the time without a critical hit. I do not know whether this is even wanted. If it really is only about getting a higher %-chance to kill them off with one blow without sacrificing too much I may be exaggerating a bit.
|
