Wow, I thought this kind of thing was done away with years ago

[kandrathe]

And that has anything to do with what I wrote because?

When you said, "If Wright, Farakhan and Sharpton go on weekend trips where they drag white people behind their car, you are absolutely right." You implied that the contrary was true.

[Chesspiece_face]

When you said, "If Wright, Farakhan and Sharpton go on weekend trips where they drag white people behind their car, you are absolutely right." You implied that the contrary was true.

Actually he did not. He stated that members of the KKK had done such actions and compared them to Wright, Farakhan and Sharpton inferring that the later three, as far as we know, have not done such actions.

You, however, implied that his statement was in some way generalizable to all black people commiting such actions against whites.

[kandrathe]

Actually he did not. He stated that members of the KKK had done such actions and compared them to Wright, Farakhan and Sharpton inferring that the later three, as far as we know, have not done such actions.

You, however, implied that his statement was in some way generalizable to all black people committing such actions against whites.

I never said all. I said ever. Has there ever been racially motivated black on white murder? I would guess also that most white supremacist leaders have never murdered anyone. Yet, they preach the language of hate and division that inspires others to do so.

Anytime there is a racially motivate white on black crime, it is national news. But, not the converse. Ok, we need to go to the more radical factions of gang and black power movements. Perhaps Onterio Varrio Sur and the Black Angels.

I find all racists despicable, no matter what color their skin happens to be.

[eppie]

Actually he did not. He stated that members of the KKK had done such actions and compared them to Wright, Farakhan and Sharpton inferring that the later three, as far as we know, have not done such actions.

You, however, implied that his statement was in some way generalizable to all black people commiting such actions against whites.

Sorry, I didn't check this thread for a few days. Chesspiece face you are right. I meant that comparing those people with the KKK was a stupid thing to do.


And Kandrathe, of course all racists are despicable, but just ignoring the long history of treating blacks as slaves/second hand citizens, ignoring all the lynchings, ignoring police brutality and ignoring the fact that still today black people have much more chance of getting an unfair trial and just making a stupid remark (ashok) is a bit rediculous.

As I wrote in an earlier post; of course there has been misbehaviour by black political activist but you should never forget how blacks were treated (only 30 years ago) and are still treated by eg police. And for that reason there is always partial sympathy for the actions of groups like the black panthers for example. (and please read the word partial, I don't want to be accused of something again), while any person in his right mind can never have sympathy for the KKK.

You as a libertarian should see this (and I guess you do, so I am not accusing you of anything:) ) especially, because the KKK was operating with 'silent' agreement of local governments, while black activist (even the ones that were just demonstrating) were treated as terrorists (avant la lettre).

[--Pete]

Hi,

And for that reason there is always partial sympathy for the actions of groups like the black panthers for example.

No, not even 'partial'. Look at Northern Ireland, look at the Middle East, look at the Balkans, look at Sri Lanka, look throughout history. No group that espoused violence and hatred ever ended either violence or hatred. As has been said before, 'an eye for an eye' yields a blind world.

--Pete

[Zingydex]

Has there ever been racially motivated black on white murder?

That point is about as far from valid as you can possibly get, kandrathe. If you know where in the world and in history to look, you can find examples of racially motivated x on y murder for all possible values of x and y.

[Occhidiangela]

That point is about as far from valid as you can possibly get, kandrathe.

His point is about people who have a selective memory, who count the hits and ignore or never bother looking for the misses.

Go back to the fragging that happened to officers of the 101st on the eve of Operation Iraqi Freedom, in 2003. Nothing ethnic, nor racial, about that, no, not a bit of it. :wacko:

See also a guy named Malvo in and around our very own Northern VA/Maryland neighborhood. That happened in places I am personally familiar with. Nothing in the least bit tainted there, no, not at all.

Unless you open your eyes and try to peel a layer or two off of the onion.

The attack on Reginald Denny, because he happened to be white in the wrong neighborhood. The media couldn't ignore that.

The OJ Simpson verdict. (I also don't know if he did it, but I do know what the sentiments were, or were proclaimed as, afterwards).

Choosing to self identify with group X, Y, or Z isn't always an objective and rational exercise. Sometimes it is religion, sometimes social group, sometimes, color/ethinc group, and so on. Sometimes it is a label someone else has offered us, other times labels derived ad hoc.

And for that reason there is always partial sympathy for the actions of groups like the black panthers for example.

Among useful idiots and back bench cheerleaders, perhaps ... eppie. I am going to guess that you were tickled pink that Van Gogh was killed, what with all that sympathy you tell us runs rampant for anarchaic and criminal behavior. :P


Occhi

[--Pete]

Hi,

The OJ Simpson verdict.

Unfortunately, that was a perfect example of the legal system working right and the justice system failing. By making trials a technical game instead of an attempt to arrive at an objective truth, we've opened the door to that type of nonsense. So, the better team won. Especially since the losing team played like a bunch of jackasses. I never saw the memo, but someone must have put out the word to the cops; "Don't worry about procedure, it's just a minor case. Be as sloppy as you like. O.J.'s legal aid attorneys will never know how to exploit your blunders."

Bah.

--Pete

[kandrathe]

You as a libertarian should see this (and I guess you do, so I am not accusing you of anything:) ) especially, because the KKK was operating with 'silent' agreement of local governments, while black activist (even the ones that were just demonstrating) were treated as terrorists (avant la lettre).

I still think you are missing the forest because of the trees. The barriers of civil behavior are being destroyed and there are places where you will be victimized because you are not the right color, age, sex, or etc. It's the decent into madness that is troubling, and it is expressed in these outrageous crimes. I even hesitate to call them crimes, since they are more evidence of barbarity, or "wildness". Our civilization is crumbling before our eyes, and there are crazy primates, formerly known as homo sapiens, running around loose killing and destroying.

So, if you want to call that racism... fine. It's a part of it, but it nowhere comes close to capturing the extent of the crisis confronting our society.

[Jester]

Our civilization is crumbling before our eyes, and there are crazy primates, formerly known as homo sapiens, running around loose killing and destroying.

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

-Jester

[--Pete]

Hi,

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Indeed it is! :lol:

--Pete

[Jester]

Indeed it is! :lol:

Sucks to space debris. There's all *sorts* of ways a horrible death could rain down from the heavens!

Phil Plait (AKA The Bad Astronomer) even has a book about it.

-Jester

[kandrathe]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

-Jester

I guess you can tell when I've had a bad Monday. :-)

[--Pete]

Hi,

. . . bad Monday.

That's redundant.

--Pete

[eppie]

His point is about people who have a selective memory, who count the hits and ignore or never bother looking for the misses.

Go back to the fragging that happened to officers of the 101st on the eve of Operation Iraqi Freedom, in 2003. Nothing ethnic, nor racial, about that, no, not a bit of it. :wacko:

See also a guy named Malvo in and around our very own Northern VA/Maryland neighborhood. That happened in places I am personally familiar with. Nothing in the least bit tainted there, no, not at all.

Unless you open your eyes and try to peel a layer or two off of the onion.

The attack on Reginald Denny, because he happened to be white in the wrong neighborhood. The media couldn't ignore that.

The OJ Simpson verdict. (I also don't know if he did it, but I do know what the sentiments were, or were proclaimed as, afterwards).

Choosing to self identify with group X, Y, or Z isn't always an objective and rational exercise. Sometimes it is religion, sometimes social group, sometimes, color/ethinc group, and so on. Sometimes it is a label someone else has offered us, other times labels derived ad hoc.
Among useful idiots and back bench cheerleaders, perhaps ... eppie. I am going to guess that you were tickled pink that Van Gogh was killed, what with all that sympathy you tell us runs rampant for anarchaic and criminal behavior. :P
Occhi

Again, you are also totally besides the point. Farakhan, Wright etc. can simply not be compared to the KKK. There maybe other blacks that can be, but those were not the guys I believe Ashok mentioned. So my statement remains, please don't drag things that don't have anything to do with what I said into it.'


Also I don't understand why you feel the need to explain that not only white people do bad thinsg agaisnt black people, but that it can also be the other way around, or involve asians, or black agaisnt black or white agaisnt white. Did I give you somewhere the idea that I didn't know that?


I don't know what 'tickled pink' means. But I have an idea.....but sugessting I would support the actions of some religious moron is just stupid. I don't know if you have been following my posts here in general, but religion is not really my thing. (the fact that i didn't think van Gogh was a very great person himself doesn't have any influence on the fact that this was a despicable murder, and it is good that the guy who did it serves a life sentence........and I know you like death penalty....well this murderer was so obviously guilty that I wouldn't have mind him getting it.)

[eppie]

Hi,
No, not even 'partial'. Look at Northern Ireland, look at the Middle East, look at the Balkans, look at Sri Lanka, look throughout history. No group that espoused violence and hatred ever ended either violence or hatred. As has been said before, 'an eye for an eye' yields a blind world.

--Pete

First the comparisons you mention are not really valid.
Second, I understand your point, but it is easy to make when you are white middle class in the 60's in the US. A country were an eye for an eye is more or less in the constitution (with the weapons and all) and I guess you can at least imagine that people that for years are treated like 2nd grade citizens, are victims of police brutality and lynch mobs after a few 100 years say to themselves.....I won't take this anymore.


The big problem of course being that the victims of such behaviour are often inncocent people.


But as I said before, murder or terrrorism and freedom fighting can sometimes be difficult to distinguish. In teh case of the KKK it is not so difficult to make that distinction.

[eppie]

I still think you are missing the forest because of the trees. The barriers of civil behavior are being destroyed and there are places where you will be victimized because you are not the right color, age, sex, or etc. It's the decent into madness that is troubling, and it is expressed in these outrageous crimes. I even hesitate to call them crimes, since they are more evidence of barbarity, or "wildness". Our civilization is crumbling before our eyes, and there are crazy primates, formerly known as homo sapiens, running around loose killing and destroying.

So, if you want to call that racism... fine. It's a part of it, but it nowhere comes close to capturing the extent of the crisis confronting our society.

My words on the KKK and black panthers were about the past (60s and 70s). I would of course have no sympathy at all for an organization as the black panthers nowadays.
But to the best of my knowledge they don't exist anymore, and to the best of my knowledge the KKK still does (I am sure somebody will correct me when I am wrong). Strengthening my critics on Ashoks post.

[kandrathe]

My words on the KKK and black panthers were about the past (60s and 70s). I would of course have no sympathy at all for an organization as the black panthers nowadays.
But to the best of my knowledge they don't exist anymore, and to the best of my knowledge the KKK still does (I am sure somebody will correct me when I am wrong). Strengthening my critics on Ashoks post.

You don't believe there are any racist black organizations? I would say that you should take off your rose colored glasses, and brush up on your knowledge.

[Jester]

You don't believe there are any racist black organizations? I would say that you should take off your rose colored glasses, and brush up on your knowledge.

It would be interesting to know the actual comparative sizes and power of these groups vs. other racial supremacist groups, especially White Supremacists. My (admittedly limited) understanding is that there is at least an order of magnitude between them, in terms of membership, funding, power, and violence committed. However, a quick google reveals nothing - maybe I'll check journal databases later and see if someone has estimates.

It may also be that the kinds of criminal underworld functions that in inner city black communities are dominated by drug gangs rather than racialists, are in white communities dominated by Aryan Supremacists. What that would mean, I'm not sure, but there might be some argument there.

-Jester

[eppie]

You don't believe there are any racist black organizations? I would say that you should take off your rose colored glasses, and brush up on your knowledge.

Again, I never said that. I know that there are racist organizations of all sorts, anywhere and always.

I checked your link......and just like the white supramacists these guys are again religious nut-jobs. My god, black hebrew israelites.....who invents these names??

(don't you think I am onto something?:) )


So to start at the beginning again it is far more likely that Obama's 'being religious' is more of a problem then his 'being black'.