Election Thread

[Zippyy]

I couldn't figure out why there wasn't a thread about this already so I created one.

What particularly surprised me is Bush's rare showing of (apparent) candidness where he took the heat for Republican losses, announced Rumsfeld's resignation, and claim that he is open to new ideas for handling Iraq. It brought to mind the stereotypical bully who softens up when slugged in the gut.

So: thoughts and opinions?

[Rhydderch Hael]

Candidness = Candor

The "Cheny will go hunting" thread was the first topic about Election Day.

We're not out of dire straits yet. I'll reserve judgement for a few years.

[Munkay]

So: thoughts and opinions?

It's definitely a step in the right direction. How much applause it deserves is arguable.

Cheers,

Munk

[Mithrandir]

Proposal 2, which banned affirmative action, was passed here in Michigan which has been huge news all over campus this week. Apparently I'm still a racist around here for wanting colorblind admission policies (go figure?), but at least it's nice to know that almost 60% of the state agrees with me.

[Doc]

Proposal 2, which banned affirmative action, was passed here in Michigan which has been huge news all over campus this week. Apparently I'm still a racist around here for wanting colorblind admission policies (go figure?), but at least it's nice to know that almost 60% of the state agrees with me.

That does not make you racist, it makes you sane.

Reverse racism is still racism. If anything, affirmative action makes the problem worse. When Shanaynay is hired to fill a quota, and she spends all of her time talking on her cell phone to her baby's daddy and filing her long ghettoriffic nails, and deals with people in broken ghetto English (OH NO YOU DINT!) she is only causing more problems for her race when the unfortunate people that encounter her have to deal with her.

[kandrathe]

I couldn't figure out why there wasn't a thread about this already so I created one.

What particularly surprised me is Bush's rare showing of (apparent) candidness where he took the heat for Republican losses, announced Rumsfeld's resignation, and claim that he is open to new ideas for handling Iraq. It brought to mind the stereotypical bully who softens up when slugged in the gut.

So: thoughts and opinions?

In my State it was not such a good thing. I think Minnesota is perhaps one of the most socialist states in the US, so we pay one of the highest taxes (in the top 10 since 1970, now #3 )per capita of any place in the US. There are very good public servants who were replaced, just because they had an R by their name. Being neither an R or D, I try to vote for people who "get it". Rather, there are a large number of people who try to solve all problems by tossing government money at it. The 6th district sent Keith Ellison, a Nation of Islam activist, and close associate of CAER to the US House. So, time will tell, but I fear an emotional back lash is seldom good for the people (in this nation and for the world). The saving grace here might be that the Governor remains an R, but he trends toward "RINO" (Republican in name only) and does not hold down the spending. So that is only marginally better than the potential hot head higher tax advocate that was running against him, Mike Hatch.

I believe it's pretty normal for the President's party to suffer set backs in the mid term, especially with him at the helm of an unpopular occupation and a seemingly vague "war on terror". I wouldn't call it bully slugged in the gut, as much as the voters sending a clear wake up call message that things need to change. Republicans are also angry nationwide with the higher costs of government, and unbalanced budgets, so you see many more 3rd party fiscal libertarians siphoning off the base.

[Griselda]

Bush even had lunch with the woman "who thinks she's gon' be speaker, but she's not" yesterday. It's all an act. He needed a scapegoat, and Rumsfeld already had the armed forces asking for his removal. Low-hanging fruit. That's very different than actual change.

The differences I expect to see in the next few years are-

- A few quick "Dem-style" bills with enough bipartisan support to avoid the veto.
- Closer to elections, some "pie in the sky" Dem bills that are presented knowing that they will get vetoed, so that they can use it as an issue in the campaign. Whatever the Democratic version of "quick, let's propose an anti-gay marriage constitutional amendment!" turns out to be.
- Judge confirmations should be interesting for the next few years.

Other than that, business as usual, I suspect.

[Ashock]

Bush even had lunch with the woman "who thinks she's gon' be speaker, but she's not" yesterday. It's all an act. He needed a scapegoat, and Rumsfeld already had the armed forces asking for his removal. Low-hanging fruit. That's very different than actual change.

I'm curious, where did you get that info? New York Times?

-A

[Griselda]

I'm curious, where did you get that info? New York Times?

-A

What info? The quote, Rumsfeld's removal, or my opinion about it?

[Zippyy]

Reverse racism is still racism. If anything, affirmative action makes the problem worse. When Shanaynay is hired to fill a quota, and she spends all of her time talking on her cell phone to her baby's daddy and filing her long ghettoriffic nails, and deals with people in broken ghetto English (OH NO YOU DINT!) she is only causing more problems for her race when the unfortunate people that encounter her have to deal with her.

I don't know much about affirmative action policies, but your post sure sounds racist regardless of intention. In my two years at a large (28,000+) university I have not run into anyone remotely like the person you described. Why choose the most improbable (and most derogatory) example?

Edit: Oops, sorry, I'm in school mode. Maybe the situation/person you described is more common in jobs than in schools. I've never experienced such a person myself.

[Maitre]

So: thoughts and opinions?

Here in Virginia, the ammendment to the commonwealth constitution defining marriage as "the union between one man and one woman" passed. The classic geographic dichotomies of the state were on display: Fairfax County, Arlington county, and the independant cities contained within (Fairfax city, Alexandria City, City of Falls Church, being the closest jurisdictions to DC), along with other cities through the state (Richmond, Williamsburgh, Charlottesville, and Norfolk) voted no at about 60%. The rest of the state voted yes between 60 and 80%, so the measure passes 57% yes to 43% no. not much public comment on the issue yet, but the results have yet to be certified (thanks to the less than 1% difference in the senate rate between Webb and Allen) so we may get some when the recount is concluded.

Of interest, though, if you read the full text of the issue, available from this site, you find that the vote on the 7th was really just to put a bow on the package, so to say. The state already has in place the following statutes:
A: "A marriage between persons of the same sex is prohibited.", presently Code of Virginia § 20-45.2, originally adopted 1975
B: "Any marriage entered into by persons of the same sex in another state or jurisdiction shall be void in all respects in Virginia and any contractual rights created by such marriage shall be void and unenforceable." sentence added to Code of Virginia § 20-45.2, as ammended 1997
C: "A civil union, partnership contract or other arrangement between persons of the same sex purporting to bestow the privileges or obligations of marriage is prohibited. Any such civil union, partnership contract or other arrangement entered into by persons of the same sex in another state or jurisdiction shall be void in all respects in Virginia and any contractual rights created thereby shall be void and unenforceable." Code of Virginia § 20-45.3, enacted 2004

Personal politics aside, I think the effort of advocates for civil unions and similar institutions might be better spent in making people aware of the current state of law. If I hadn't gone looking for a listing of the ballot issues, I would have had no idea what the current laws read. I know I'm not the only one who wanted to know what I was voting on, but I know there are many more wo did nothing other than reading the name of the issue, and didn't bother looking any further. Now, I have to track down the results of the two local questions (the slogan for one of them was something that reduced to "vote yes: let kids play youth soccer." The issue was authorization of bonds for county park and rec improvement).

[Munkay]

Reverse racism is still racism. If anything, affirmative action makes the problem worse.

Agreed.

But this:

When Shanaynay is hired to fill a quota, and she spends all of her time talking on her cell phone to her baby's daddy and filing her long ghettoriffic nails, and deals with people in broken ghetto English (OH NO YOU DINT!) she is only causing more problems for her race when the unfortunate people that encounter her have to deal with her.

Has nothing to do with the problem of reverse racism. Makes me wonder if this 'joke' is a vieled attack to call opposers of affirmative action actually racist? But knowing you Doc, I doubt that's the case. Your characterization has more to do with "intergration of culture" than affirmative action/reverse racism.

Mind clarifying what you meant Doc?

Cheers,

Munk

[Doc]

Agreed.

But this:

Has nothing to do with the problem of reverse racism. Makes me wonder if this 'joke' is a vieled attack to call opposers of affirmative action actually racist? But knowing you Doc, I doubt that's the case. Your characterization has more to do with "intergration of culture" than affirmative action/reverse racism.

Mind clarifying what you meant Doc?

Cheers,

Munk

Not a joke at all.

When you have some ghetto trash whore hired to fill a quota and then some white cracker trailer trash comes and has to deal with the person in that position, all of the redneck's worst fears about the black race are confirmed. All of the stereotypes used by rednecks are personified by little Miss Ghettolicious.

I firmly believe that there are white people who want to further their own agenda that intnetionally hire the worst of the lot when having to fill affirmative action quotas to further degrade race relations by showcasing an inferiour example of said race. Self fulfilling prophesy. Rednecks think: All black people are a bunch of ghetto trash. Rednecks are then forced to deal with said pieces of ghetto trash on a daily basis, in various positions, filling jobs up in places where they obviously do not belong. Frustrations mount. More racial tension is built. White seperatists and supremacists continue to get what they want through careful manipulation of the system to make sure only the very worst of all blacks or other minorities are presented to the public through various public relations positions. Government jobs. Etc.

This is double sided too. Little Miss Ghettolicious is exposed to a lot of redneck cracker types, racists, who would normally never give her the time of day. Sure, some minor hassles here and there, but with her job, and her inability to do her job, and her client or customer getting fed up with her not being able to do her job, there are bound to be racial slurs, hateful remarks, etc. instead of just a hateful look in a cafe someplace, these two people who would normally not interact are forced to deal with each other, presenting an opportunity for both of them to sink to new lows. So little Miss Ghettolicious gets to go off and gossip with all of her girlfriends about how bad all white people are, and she tells her baby's daddy about the cracker hassling her today at work, and so continues the viscious never ending self feeding cycle of racism. Hot headed ghetto gangster type goes out and starts crap with some poor white person they don't even know out of petty revenge... And you get the picture. The stereotypes continue on.

Affirmative action is a tool to keep racism at a hot steady simmer. It is just another way to keep minorities down. A sham. It is the illusion of a hand out, but it is really just another hand that holds all of us down. White, black, or otherwise. We all suffer because of it.

[Ashock]

What info? The quote, Rumsfeld's removal, or my opinion about it?

"Rumsfeld already had the armed forces asking for his removal"

This one.

Mind you, I'm not a huge fan of the guy, but I've not seen any reports that the military wants him gone. A report from a 3rd source is not information to me. I need a direct result from either an unbiased poll (gl with that one, naturally), or a quote from several high ranking military officials before I believe this. Perhaps someone like Occhi can shed more light on this.

-A

[Hammerskjold]

Someone said:

"she is only causing more problems for her race when the unfortunate people that encounter her have to deal with her."

Then I says:

Wha...? So Shanaynay there is the de-facto spokeswoman for all black people everywhere? How did she get that job? I hope it's not through affirmative action, because that kind of lofty position needs to be earned on merit alone!

[Rhydderch Hael]

"Rumsfeld already had the armed forces asking for his removal"

This one.

Mind you, I'm not a huge fan of the guy, but I've not seen any reports that the military wants him gone. A report from a 3rd source is not information to me. I need a direct result from either an unbiased poll (gl with that one, naturally), or a quote from several high ranking military officials before I believe this. Perhaps someone like Occhi can shed more light on this.

-A

Quotes from retired Army and Marine Corps generals lie herein.

For those without the capacity to utilize linky-fu:

Maj Gen Paul Eaton, Army
Gen Anthony Zinni, Marines
Lt Gen Gregory Newbold, Marines
Maj Gen John Batiste, Army
Maj Gen Charles H Swannack Jr, Army
Maj Gen John Riggs, Army
Gen Wesley Clark, Army

Two, three and even four stars there.

[Roland]

Quotes from retired Army and Marine Corps generals lie herein.

For those without the capacity to utilize linky-fu:

Maj Gen Paul Eaton, Army
Gen Anthony Zinni, Marines
Lt Gen Gregory Newbold, Marines
Maj Gen John Batiste, Army
Maj Gen Charles H Swannack Jr, Army
Maj Gen John Riggs, Army
Gen Wesley Clark, Army

Two, three and even four stars there.

All retired, all talking out their ass.

Edit:
Ok, so I'm talking out my ass. What I get for passing along someone else's opinion. Oh well. Foot-in-mouth disease flared up again.

[Doc]

Someone said:

"she is only causing more problems for her race when the unfortunate people that encounter her have to deal with her."

Then I says:

Wha...? So Shanaynay there is the de-facto spokeswoman for all black people everywhere? How did she get that job? I hope it's not through affirmative action, because that kind of lofty position needs to be earned on merit alone!

Unfortunately the small minded and ignorant do take the actions of just one or two and use them to judge an entire race. This goes both ways. There are black supremacy groups that have judged and condemed the entire white race based on the actions of a few. And there are white folks that have done the same.

[Rhydderch Hael]

All retired, all talking out their ass.

You can level a charge of partisan bias against Clark, obviously, but I fail to see how a CENTCOM commander, the CO of the 1st Infantry Division during the 2003 invasion, and the CO of the 82nd Airborne during the invasion can be deemed unqualified to possess a notable opinion on the fellow.

Truth be told, I don't have a stake in this little political knife-fight, but my curiousity was piqued by Ashock's request and my recollection a few days back about how Army and Marine pundits expressed their disdain for the Secretary, so I decided to take a little look around.

And look at what I found.

[Griselda]

I used to work for a local University, and sat on a few hiring committees. We had to run all of our hiring decisions through the affirmative action office, but never had any problems, even when hiring a "majority" candidate. There were never any quotas that we had to fill.

Edited to add- I think one of the reasons that the system worked so well for us was that we had a pretty coherent system of screening applicants and interviewees agreed upon in advance, so it was pretty clear that our decisions were based on the merits of the candidate.