My vision of the Warrior

[Kay]

OK, he will be a LAW. What we need is a really high level (42-50) warrior and the following items:

Armor: Scavenger Carapace
Helm: HoS
Sword: KSoH
Shield: Obs(Eme)/Tiger
Amulet: Obs/Zod
Rings: of Harmony and of the Dark (probably with a good prefix, as Drake's or Dragon's)

Pros:

- 15 dmg taken
- 40 % LR
- 5 % LL
- almost perfect block
- fair dmg
- fhr
- max res

Cons:

- low mana
- you will probably need to carry a RoE against IWs, a good Drag/Zod ring for telekill in "mages only" levels and a ring of Perfection for perfect block in "melee only" levels.
- equipping one of those rings will make you lose the fhr bonus.


So, what do you think? Am I just being a noob, or is this a good build?

[Alamara]

In my opinion, he will get lit up by any kind of attackers of more than 2 or 3. He will have very low life, likely 300-330 or so, and versus more than one melee enemy will end up in stun/blocklock. Of course, you could play him incredibly slowly, but then again, if you have to do so, it's a poor build. The -15dfe is really rather negligible, although it will stop him from being stunned earlier in the game.

[[vL]Kp]

Cons:
- equipping one of those rings will make you lose the fhr bonus.
So, what do you think? Am I just being a noob, or is this a good build?

From what I recall, if a warrior was actually in a situation where fastest hit recovery mattered, something had already gone horribly wrong. Back when I played with Tristan, his LAW regularly survived fairly nasty battles without being stunned much (if at all). Usually, the only thing that would get him stunned would be multiple fast attackers (Lava Maws or Storm demons), which were (1) my fault for bringing on him (I tended to wake up monsters rather aggressively) and (2) fast enough that FHR would not have saved him anyway.

You're much better off using that slot to make sure you actually have perfect block, not almost perfect block.:)

[Sekel]

I dont like that setup. IMO there are "useless" items.

For instance:
of Dark is very interesting suffix. In some setups or occasions it rocks. BUT my LAW likes when he can see monsters in some distance from him. Its good to have time to decide what to do (go ahead to face monster, stay, step to the corner, fall back, run....) and space around to do that.
Ring of Dark take that time and space, unless you buy bunch of Infra scrolls. And what it actually brings? IMO nothing. Actually it will lower possibility of prefix to qlvl 13, what is quite low (max Snakes in mana case)
I think, that 1 or 2 of Dark items along with Infra scroll are great choice for LAW. But in his inventory for item recovery cases......

of Harmony.
Well, this suffix is nice, but Warrior have quite fast Hit Recovery. And let face it - there are much beter suffixes. Especially + ALL.
In your "Pros" there is written "- almost perfect block". I wonder where you get that? Only + DEXT items are Scavenger Carapace and ORoZ. Together its 5 + 20 to dext in ideal case. Does 85 DEXT grant perfect block to (say clvl 42) Warrior? Well, it depends, right? Against mlvl 30 monster (BK in Normal) it surelly does.
Against mlvl 45 monster (BK in Nightmare) it surelly doesnt. Your block will be 79%. And against Hell BK - 49%. IMHO its unacceptable. My LAW changes ring for fighting BK because of "only" 98% blocking. You can think, Im crazy, but its very annoying, when youre fighting 1 vs 1 and then *SLASH* youre dead.

Scavenger and HoS:
This items are fine, but maybe you could think of about Obsidian armor and RC. I personally use HoS too, but if I would be missing 10 DEXT to perfect block, I would surely use RC.

This is best LAW setup. At leas for me:
Obsi/Tiger shield and Obsi/Stars armor
3* mana/+All jewels
HoS or RC.
KSoH + KSoV

I dont want to say, that its the ONLY playable setup. What is not playable in Diablo, right?
I just think its the best LAW choice. Maybe you should start here and then think about what would you want to change and what it actually brings to you. But IMO you wouldnt change perfect blocking for anything ....

[Kay]

Yeah... did not think that one through. Thanks for your advices!

OK, what about this:

- Nightscape
- plain amulet of Zodiac (maybe an obs/zod if you need more + allres, but you shouldn't)
- obs/perfection ring x 2 (if the resistances are maxed without one of them, use a plain ring of perfection or even zodiac)
- RC
- KSoH
- obs(eme)/tiger shield (if the resistances are maxed, use a plain shield of the tiger with a decent HP boost)

Swap: whatever you like (high AC setup etc.)

With these items, my lvl 31 warrior has got:

- 420 life
- 210 mana
- 140 dex (enough for perfect block in NM/Hell, I prefer playing there at the moment - need to get him to a higher level)
- more or less OK damage (91-117 AFAIR)
- 30% LR
- faster hit recovery
- maxed res
- over 200% to hit
- possibility to use HoS instead of RC once I've hit clvl 45 (130 dex is enough then), although RC is a really nice helm, too
- possibility to switch one of obs/perfection rings to something better at higher levels (the resistances will still be maxed due to the shield, Nightscape and the other ring)

Is this variant better?

[Nystul]

Well, what exactly is your goal here? Are you going with -LR and fast hit recovery for a specific style or reason, or are you just under the impression that they are helpful things? Are you going with you unique armors for a specific reason, or just trying to get the best setup?

Hit recovery, light radius, damage from enemies, and life leech are all interesting things to play around with. But if your goal is a very powerful character, none of these things is really worth your time (maybe harmony if your other options are less than ideal).

[Ashock]

This is best LAW setup. At least for me:
Obsi/Tiger shield and Obsi/Stars armor
3* mana/+All jewels
HoS or RC.
KSoH + KSoV

Yep, that's the most powerful LAW setup. Tested, retested and approved years ago. Obs/Stars Mail for best looks.

-A

[Kay]

With the "standard" setup (the items you've described), my warr has got over 470 life, around 250 mana, 142 dex, good damage, and he pretty much owns everything in Nightmare and does well in Hell. But I wanted to create something myself, not just copy other people's achievements:/

[Thenryb]

Yep, that's the most powerful LAW setup. Tested, retested and approved years ago. Obs/Stars Mail for best looks.

-A

That was old Thenryb's setup, although I never found a second dragon/zod ring for him and he had to make do with a plain zod on one hand and a drakes/zod or something on the other. He used an HoS rather than an RC but still had adequate mana. I played with Tristan a lot too. Tristan used an RC and carried mostly blues and cast healing. That was always problematic with balrogs on 13 or those pesky dogs:) Thenryb tended to be lazy and just gulp reds in the same situation.

[Alamara]

With the "standard" setup (the items you've described), my warr has got over 470 life, around 250 mana, 142 dex, good damage, and he pretty much owns everything in Nightmare and does well in Hell. But I wanted to create something myself, not just copy other people's achievements:/

Obviously that can be a goal, but perhaps try to do something completely new to you, rather than a modification of something else. Obviously 3 Drag/Zod jewels will make nearly any warrior dominant, but I doubt you could find a single legit player who has 3 matching (2 ring/1 ammy), or even 3 at all.

Here's my idea for a new warrior, basically designed to kill anything in hell/hell in one or two hits.

Bloodslayer, obsidian/harmony armor, 2 gold/perf or zod series jewel, one obsid/perf or zod series. HoS. That warrior could deal something like an insane 1200 damage with a critical hit, if my estimates are close, and take back 60 life with one of those. Problems possible might be CTH and mana for spells, but good jewels could make up for this.

[the Langolier]

Kind Knight:

I hope you have fun building this type of warrior the way you like. A long time ago, NiteFox played an interesting character build that I thought I would post to give you some ideas. The main concept was a warrior who used as much -Damage From Enemies (-DFE) as possible in tandem with mana shield (which has 33% damage reduction itself), with a vampires weapon to sustain the mana shield. In practice, the character is untouchable in normal mode, pretty effective in nightmare, but by the time hell/hell comes around, the -DFE just isn't very effective anymore. It is still playable in hell/hell, but don't expect the mana shield to hold out for very long, in which case you may decide to use healing. There's many different build options, so here are some ideas about some items this build can use (numbers in parenthesis are amount of -DFE):

Obsidian helm of deflection (4) OR Godly helm of osmosis (6) OR Gotterdamerung (4)
Scavengers carapace (15) OR Demonspike coat (6) OR Awesome plate of deflection (4)
Kings sword of vampires
Obsidian shield of absorption (3) OR Holy defender (2)
Raven's amulet of health (1) OR anything else
Ring of engagement (2) OR anything else
Ring of engagement (2) OR anything else

What you use depends on how much -DFE you want. For example, is -2 DFE for a second RoE worth giving up something like a dragons/zodiac? That is up to you, but with this build you can achieve max resists, -20 DFE or more, and *still* be able to use three dragons/zodiacs if you so desire. I don't recommend using any amulet of health. It is pretty fun to try out, and if you are interested, I have a a perfect obsidian tower shield of absorption you may borrow (40/20/3).

Just to put it in perspective, here are some average values for equal level warriors: one a standard build, the other with -DFE and MS. This is nightmare difficulty:

Average damage for a standard warrior:

Soul burner: .25 * [6+(74-6)/2] = 10 damage to hp
Advocate: .25 * [34+(54-34)/2]*2 (x2 due to fireball bug) = 22 damage to hp

Average damage taken for a -22 DFE & MS warrior:

Soul Burner: .25 * .66 * [6+(74-6)/2 - 22] = 3 damage to mana
Advocate: .25 * .66 * [34+(54-34)/2-22]*2 = 7.3 damage to mana

Now, if you do an average of 130 damage @ clvl 40 with vampires, you will steal about 9 mana per hit on average. You can see that the damage is significantly reduced for the toughest elemental enemies in nightmare difficulty. To give you an idea, the -DFE warrior can take fire from three soul burners as he wails on a fourth, and his mana will remain about even, thought it will vary. The effect of -DFE is even more effective for the weaker witches and mages. Conversely, the effect of -DFE is diminished versus hell difficulty versions of these monsters. It is interesting to note that -DFE has virtually no effect in nightmare versus damage/time spells like inferno and flash, but the effect is much more significant in hell.

@Alamara: Why not switch out the bloodslayer with a CC and gain the benefit of a shield? Two gold jewels will not be enough reach maximum to-hit, and that would be very bad for a low AC axe wielder. But using three will make you one resistance prefix short when using HoS. A shield will restore that resistance affix AND allow you to block, which is even more important than for a normal LAW since your attack rate will be slower.

EDIT: I forgot to say, read the analysis of osmosis and pain in the strategy section of this site. It gives a great insight into how effective -DFE by seeing how many virtual hit-points it is worth and avoiding stun with -DFE.

[Alamara]

@Alamara: Why not switch out the bloodslayer with a CC and gain the benefit of a shield? Two gold jewels will not be enough reach maximum to-hit, and that would be very bad for a low AC axe wielder. But using three will make you one resistance prefix short when using HoS. A shield will restore that resistance affix AND allow you to block, which is even more important than for a normal LAW since your attack rate will be slower.

It's well known that a CC can be used viably, even as a choice by an unrestricted warrior sometimes. I think that this will provide enough CTH though, with good jewels. Obviously anyone can make a good CC warrior, it's simply not a challenge to design any of 5 or 6 effective warrior builds. I'm attempting a new one.

50+85+60+20+cLvl-AC
215 + cLvl - AC(BK's/Soulies have 165).

50 + cLvl % CTH. That's enough in my book, as long as the Warrior is played intelligently. If you use a Gold/Heavens jewel in place of the obsid/Perf you get:

72.5 + cLvl % CTH. Which is perfect.

(Used this):
The to-hit displayed in character screen:
% = 50 + dex/2 + (to-hit% from items)

The final to-hit for a melee attack:
% = (to-hit%) + clvl + bonus - (AC of monster)

Perhaps at lower levels use an Obsidian/Precision helm. This makes your CTH 60+cLvl %, and has the effect of maxing resistances as well.

[Ashock]

That was old Thenryb's setup, although I never found a second dragon/zod ring for him and he had to make do with a plain zod on one hand and a drakes/zod or something on the other. He used an HoS rather than an RC but still had adequate mana. I played with Tristan a lot too. Tristan used an RC and carried mostly blues and cast healing. That was always problematic with balrogs on 13 or those pesky dogs:) Thenryb tended to be lazy and just gulp reds in the same situation.

Personally, I never liked HoS. I did not think that giving up the RCs stats for HoS was worth it. I saw it as a novelty item, but that's me. I believe Sorc also thought that, but .Gore did not. Once when I played with him we were flying through and he died on 15 from Azure Drakes. I had a chance to inspect his gear ;-) I did not die because I was in my main MAW setup, so around 245 AC gave me enough protection.

I usually carried a mix of all 3 pots. Probably 40% reds, the rest in Blues/Yellows. Problem with going mostly reds is that you might need to go to town before you clear H/H at least once. With a good mix of all types, you can with relative ease clear H/H without any trips... unless of course you find that tempting blue FPM.

So he cast healing while on combat, or away from it?

-A

[Thenryb]

Personally, I never liked HoS. I did not think that giving up the RCs stats for HoS was worth it. I saw it as a novelty item, but that's me. I believe Sorc also thought that, but .Gore did not. Once when I played with him we were flying through and he died on 15 from Azure Drakes. I had a chance to inspect his gear ;-) I did not die because I was in my main MAW setup, so around 245 AC gave me enough protection.

I usually carried a mix of all 3 pots. Probably 40% reds, the rest in Blues/Yellows. Problem with going mostly reds is that you might need to go to town before you clear H/H at least once. With a good mix of all types, you can with relative ease clear H/H without any trips... unless of course you find that tempting blue FPM.

So he cast healing while on combat, or away from it?

-A

I always carried a mix as well, whereas Tris carried almost all blues and often was forced to cast healing while in combat. I know there are varying views on viabilty of HOS but I am with Gore on that issue, and particularly while in the setup described above. I made a LAW CC warrior and I was never able to accessorize him using an HOS. His mana pool was small enough even with the RC.