A Marksman Snob goes Beta PvP'ing

[Mirajj]

So in the interest of testing the beta fully, I've been playing around with the various pvp features. Most of the world encounters are pretty straightforward. You flag pvp, you stand in X area, and the more of you there doing the same, the faster it goes. Other faction doesn't like it, they try to keep you out of it. Pvp ensues.

Enter Nagrad and Halaa. Nagrad is a simply beautiful zone (Take the Barrens, add in some STV, toss in some Lion King, and you have the zone. I found it a very nice zone to be in. In the center is the much ballyhoo'ed "PvP town".

The concept is cool. The town is in the middle, the faction holding it can, and those combatting for it have 4 flightpoints from which they can bomb the city and it's guards. Or the PC's, if they stand in the bombs. These bombs hit you for around 1000/tick, so you probably don't want to stand in them too long.

If you win the town, you get 15 NPC defenders. The easiest way to deal with these is from the air, as they can't do anything to you. But if you have a sufficient raid force, you can just overrun the town without too much worry. You cap the town much like you would an AV node, and it eventually gets 'won' by whichever faction capped. From that instant on, your guards can be firebombed, so it could be a pretty fast paced back and forth.

The problem as I see it, is that it won't be. Horde aren't likely to give a damn about Halaa. There is no zone wide buff for holding it (truth be told, the zone wide shouts about it get pretty annoying, pretty fast, whichever side you hold). There is no 'extra' honor in holding, nor is there really any honor in holding it. The only reason to have Halaa on "your" side is to turn in a repeatable quest, or buy some pvp stuff from their shops. It makes things a wee bit faster, as you can cut through there, repair, and sell, cutting off some travel time. With the faction imbalance on most servers, this area of pvp is likely to be lost in the shuffle as the Horde just won't be bothered with it.

Sadly, I don't see this world pvp feature going very far, which is a shame, as it seems to have some potential.

When I logged on today, Blizz's MotD was a call to arms. They wanted to "pressure test" the Eye of the Storm BG between certain times. As I'd logged on 1/2 after their requested times started, I dutifully went to Shattrath and queued up. Shattrath is the only place in the Outlands you'll find BattleMasters, btw.fI had tried to queue up once before, but after 1 1/2 hours gave up on it. The continual "bonging" of the pvp signet to mark off every minute you are in queue gets old fast.

Anyhow, After a 14 minute wait, I got my summons. Now, I knew little about this BG, having not looked at anything before hand about it. But a couple of folks in /general were talking about it beforehand, and it was described at "a cross between AB and WSG". And that pretty much sums it up. It's a "mineral" race to 2000, with a capture the flag element tossed in.

There are 4 nodes to hold, 2 on each side of a gaping chasm. The more nodes you hold, the faster you gain minerals, obviously. For the majority of the game I was in (It went just over 1/2 hour) each side held 2 nodes, with the Alliance occasionally stealing a third from the Horde for a bit. The Horde was able to disrupt our nodes, but never fully capture them.

There are three bridges across the chasm. One at each node, and one in the center. In the center of the center bridge is the flag. You tap the flag and boot it to ANY node your faction holds. Each successful run seemed to earn the flagrunners around 100 minerals...so you can't ignore the flag, as it resets seconds after a capture. IIRC, there were about 15 flag captures, most by our side, some by the Horde. Alliance did end up winning.

The map is really easy to get the hang of, though the scenery may distract you your first couple of times in there. It's very shiny. The bridges are somewhat narrow, and thus is pvp forced. Fears are huge in there. Luckily, you can't be feared or Screamed off the edge of the bridge. As well, you can't reach the flag node from the edges of the land mass. You have to get out onto the bridge if you want to play with the flag.

For a Marks hunter, I found this to be a pretty ideal setup, as I could hang back some, send the melee up the bridge for the flag, then pick and choose my targets from optimal ranges.

I did find this bg to be pretty fun (coming from my mostly PvE background) but also found that it started to 'drag' some, as the fight wound down. It was fairly close (we beat them 2000/1700) but there was no sense of urgency, just "are we done yet?"As a pug team of 15 players, it was pretty good. When you get serious teams of 15 in there, it'll get pretty one sided pretty fast I think.

But that's not stopped WSG or AB from being played, so it shouldn't affect this much, either. Overall, I enjoyed this one, and imagine I'll be spending a good portion of my pvp time in the Eye.

[lemekim]

The problem as I see it, is that it won't be. Horde aren't likely to give a damn about Halaa. There is no zone wide buff for holding it (truth be told, the zone wide shouts about it get pretty annoying, pretty fast, whichever side you hold). There is no 'extra' honor in holding, nor is there really any honor in holding it. The only reason to have Halaa on "your" side is to turn in a repeatable quest, or buy some pvp stuff from their shops. It makes things a wee bit faster, as you can cut through there, repair, and sell, cutting off some travel time. With the faction imbalance on most servers, this area of pvp is likely to be lost in the shuffle as the Horde just won't be bothered with it.

Sadly, I don't see this world pvp feature going very far, which is a shame, as it seems to have some potential.

There is a zone-wide buff for holding Halaa. 5% increased damage to be exact. The rewards/vendors give ok items (some blue items some people might want, a blue and epic unique jewel, epic mounts and 18 slot bag), and since you keep getting "dust" all while leveling in the zone, sooner or later you want to turn it in (for gold and exp), so you will want to participate in it at least once while you are there.

And the best part? It's pretty fun, the best Outdoor PvP out of all available atm, so you will see people doing it just because of that.

[MongoJerry]

There is a zone-wide buff for holding Halaa. 5% increased damage to be exact. The rewards/vendors give ok items (some blue items some people might want, a blue and epic unique jewel, epic mounts and 18 slot bag), and since you keep getting "dust" all while leveling in the zone, sooner or later you want to turn it in (for gold and exp), so you will want to participate in it at least once while you are there.

Yeah, I see it like Nessingwary's Expedition on Tichondrius back when the game was first released. Nessingwary's Expedition was camped nearly 24/7 by Alliance and was nearly impossible to get quests from or turn in quests to. But periodically, the Horde players in the area would guage interest in general chat in temporarily taking over the camp so that they could turn in quests and get the next set of quests. The Horde would band together, take the Alliance by surprise, and overwhelm the camp. Everybody would turn in their quests, get new quests, etc. Then, 15 minutes later, a wave of Alliance would come in to take the camp back and hold it for a couple hours until the next time their guard was let down and the Horde decided to make another move.

I suspect that it'll be the same here. The Alliance on most servers will own the town most of the time, but the Horde will band together to take the town periodically long enough to buy stuff or turn in quest items.

[Urza-DSF]

Yeah, I see it like Nessingwary's Expedition on Tichondrius back when the game was first released. Nessingwary's Expedition was camped nearly 24/7 by Alliance and was nearly impossible to get quests from or turn in quests to. But periodically, the Horde players in the area would guage interest in general chat in temporarily taking over the camp so that they could turn in quests and get the next set of quests. The Horde would band together, take the Alliance by surprise, and overwhelm the camp. Everybody would turn in their quests, get new quests, etc. Then, 15 minutes later, a wave of Alliance would come in to take the camp back and hold it for a couple hours until the next time their guard was let down and the Horde decided to make another move.

I suspect that it'll be the same here. The Alliance on most servers will own the town most of the time, but the Horde will band together to take the town periodically long enough to buy stuff or turn in quest items.

Am I the only one who thinks this is a huge load of garbage? How much more of this world PvP BS (on PvE servers no less) are we going to have to stomach? I for one am *not* happy when I have to slog through hours of having my ass handed to me by already epic-geared PvPers just to get some small amount of character advancement. I really love how Blizzard knows the alliance outnumbers the horde by 2-3:1 and yet doesn't take steps to balance things out. If the server is 3:1 make it take 3x as long for the alliance to capture an objective or 3x faster for the horde to capture it.

Stop shoving this effing PvP down our throats, or if you absolutly have to at least do *something* to even the odds.

[Zarathustra]

Am I the only one who thinks this is a huge load of garbage? How much more of this world PvP BS (on PvE servers no less) are we going to have to stomach? I for one am *not* happy when I have to slog through hours of having my ass handed to me by already epic-geared PvPers just to get some small amount of character advancement. I really love how Blizzard knows the alliance outnumbers the horde by 2-3:1 and yet doesn't take steps to balance things out. If the server is 3:1 make it take 3x as long for the alliance to capture an objective or 3x faster for the horde to capture it.

Stop shoving this effing PvP down our throats, or if you absolutly have to at least do *something* to even the odds.

Avoid the zone?

[Kevin]

Avoid the zone?

So simply close off PvE content to PvE players that don't like to PvP? If the zone has zero PvE content sure that works, but otherwise I'm not so sure.



Now as to my personal opinion. I like a bit of world PvP that has meaning. Since dishonorable kills have no penatly the X-roads is once again constantly flattened by alliance, no flight master, most of the quest givers killed. It's really rather annoying on a PvE server and the only reason to do it is to have fun at the expense of other players who may take no pleasure in what you are doing no matter what side of the issue they are on. If I wanted to deal with my quest NPC's being dead all the time I would play on PvP server. If I wanted to grief other players and fight them for resources I would play on a PvP server.

I don't mind the world PvP stuff as implemented now, though it is a bit too tame and pointless still. Collecting the spice in Sillyfuss (OK Silcyst or whatever they changed the Dune reference too) can be fun. Taking the towers in the plaguelands is mostly too non interactive to be interesting. I'll have to see the value of holding the town in TBC. And how much PvE content not having the town will cut out. Current world PvP objectives impact PvE very little. There are all of 2 quests associated with it and while the buffs help grinding/instancing, they don't make much of a difference. That may not be the case with this new content. There could be some very fun PvE quest chains after you get the rep. If the PvP just allows you to get the rap faster and there are other ways to get the rep to unlock stuff no problem. This of course may not be the case.

And this of course is part of the problem with world PvP. Most of what Blizzard has done they have actually tried to make it so that it doesn't impact PvE too much but that makes it pretty weak on the reward side. Something like this on a server with a 1:1 pop balance could be really quite a fun little diversion to do every now and then. But the issue of course is that for horde it generally won't be fun as even if you take the place with most server populations you generally know that you will be out numbered 2 or 3 to 1 very quickly.

[Zarathustra]

So simply close off PvE content to PvE players that don't like to PvP? If the zone has zero PvE content sure that works, but otherwise I'm not so sure.

Look at the original Alterac Valley. There was a load of PvE content. It'd be ludicrous for a PvPer to say that content was being jammed down his throat. Much of it was necessary for a win back in the day, coordinating riders, air strikes, etc. Those who didn't like that didn't have to run Alterac Valley, but in no way was the PvE content forced upon them, nor was anything taken off their plates through the inclusion of the new battleground.

My point is that right now the zone doesn't exist. They're adding in a zone that's a hybrid of PvE and PvP. I find it rather shortsighted to whine as if something is being taken away from a player; or better yet, forced upon him. I know people who can't stand the quests in Darkshore. Rather than complain about it, they simply don't go to that zone and the problem is solved.

[Kevin]

Look at the original Alterac Valley. There was a load of PvE content. It'd be ludicrous for a PvPer to say that content was being jammed down his throat. Much of it was necessary for a win back in the day, coordinating riders, air strikes, etc. Those who didn't like that didn't have to run Alterac Valley, but in no way was the PvE content forced upon them, nor was anything taken off their plates through the inclusion of the new battleground.

My point is that right now the zone doesn't exist. They're adding in a zone that's a hybrid of PvE and PvP. I find it rather shortsighted to whine as if something is being taken away from a player; or better yet, forced upon him. I know people who can't stand the quests in Darkshore. Rather than complain about it, they simply don't go to that zone and the problem is solved.

Actually I did see PvP players gripe about the PvE aspects of AV and they didn't want to PvE when they were there for PvP. And they did feel that PvE content was forced on them to get the PvP rewards they wanted from AV.

And the zone does exist. People are playing in it. I do agree that you can skip a zone. I don't think it's really setting a bad precedent to set it up either. The issue would be that if you needed to go to the PvP town to get a quest to unlock something in a PvE 5 man dungeon, then Blizzard is forcing PvP content on PvE players. I wouldn't care, I do like PvP now and then. But if that door gets opened then yes I see a legit bitch.

[The Gnu]

How does the pvp flagging work around these zones on PvE servers? I've not to date set foot on a PvE server, so even my general knowledge about pvp flagging is a bit dodgy.

Unless the zone actually forces you to flag for pvp, you're not going to notice any annoyance about Halaa. You can simply choose not to cross the bridges to the town, all you miss are a few vendors and pvp-oriented gear. There's loads of Nagrand to experience even when counting out Halaa from the picture.:)

[lemekim]

How does the pvp flagging work around these zones on PvE servers? I've not to date set foot on a PvE server, so even my general knowledge about pvp flagging is a bit dodgy.

Unless the zone actually forces you to flag for pvp, you're not going to notice any annoyance about Halaa. You can simply choose not to cross the bridges to the town, all you miss are a few vendors and pvp-oriented gear. There's loads of Nagrand to experience even when counting out Halaa from the picture.:)

As long as you don't flag, no one can touch you. So really, this is not a big deal.

The guards in Halaa will attack you however if you are of the wrong faction, but there are no quest givers there per se (there is a turn-in quest for tokens that you use to buy stuff in Halaa). Heck, you can even buy stuff from vendors while unflagged (there are items there you can buy with gold as well, such as 38.5 DPS arrows, and blue unique jewel).

So it's not shoving anything down anyone's throat, think of it as a piece of the map that has PvP objective on it, that you may or may not participate in for some mediocre rewards that you will probably replace fairly quickly anyway. If you don't want to, you don't have to even go near it.

[Mirajj]

Heck, you can even buy stuff from vendors while unflagged (there are items there you can buy with gold as well, such as 38.5 DPS arrows

Keep in mind that those 38.5 dps arrows/bullets are unique, meaning you can only have one stack of 200. For most hunters, that's not a lot of shooting.;)

But yes, if you are on a pve server, you can 100% ignore Halaa if you want to, and probably won't even notice that you've never done anything with it. Anything you can buy there from the non-rep vendors can be bought elsewhere in the zone, and the rep stuff isn't that great. There is one quest there, but if you don't get it, life will go on.

[Artega]

Keep in mind that those 38.5 dps arrows/bullets are unique, meaning you can only have one stack of 200. For most hunters, that's not a lot of shooting.;)

But yes, if you are on a pve server, you can 100% ignore Halaa if you want to, and probably won't even notice that you've never done anything with it. Anything you can buy there from the non-rep vendors can be bought elsewhere in the zone, and the rep stuff isn't that great. There is one quest there, but if you don't get it, life will go on.

Just enough to get a few fabled 1500+ autoshot crits in;)

[Artega]

Yeah, I see it like Nessingwary's Expedition on Tichondrius back when the game was first released. Nessingwary's Expedition was camped nearly 24/7 by Alliance and was nearly impossible to get quests from or turn in quests to. But periodically, the Horde players in the area would guage interest in general chat in temporarily taking over the camp so that they could turn in quests and get the next set of quests. The Horde would band together, take the Alliance by surprise, and overwhelm the camp. Everybody would turn in their quests, get new quests, etc. Then, 15 minutes later, a wave of Alliance would come in to take the camp back and hold it for a couple hours until the next time their guard was let down and the Horde decided to make another move.

I suspect that it'll be the same here. The Alliance on most servers will own the town most of the time, but the Horde will band together to take the town periodically long enough to buy stuff or turn in quest items.

Booty Bay was like that on my release server. I still miss those days, when there were no guards, only Horde and Alliance.