Warrior Talent Review for the Whiner in all of us!

[Frag]

Found this on the beta boards, read through and gave me a few chuckles. Wildly offbase, but cute.

http://talents.unleashedgaming.net/?p=vt...0&link=yes

Cheers,
~Frag :D

P.S. The talent names are darn near as funny as the actual effects.

[Artega]

Found this on the beta boards, read through and gave me a few chuckles. Wildly offbase, but cute.

http://talents.unleashedgaming.net/?p=vt...0&link=yes

Cheers,
~Frag :D

P.S. The talent names are darn near as funny as the actual effects.

Amusing.

Too bad Arms and Fury haven't figured out that PvP will now require a brain in addition a Mortal Strike or Bloodthirst button:)

[Mavfin]

Found this on the beta boards, read through and gave me a few chuckles. Wildly offbase, but cute.

http://talents.unleashedgaming.net/?p=vt...0&link=yes

Cheers,
~Frag :D

P.S. The talent names are darn near as funny as the actual effects.

Very obviously written by a PvP-focused person to the exclusion of all else, pretty much, but still funny in places:P

[Monkey]

I found this priest one more amusing:
http://talents.unleashedgaming.net/?p=vt&i=3434

[NiteFox]

I found this priest one more amusing:
http://talents.unleashedgaming.net/?p=vt&i=3434

I'd totally spec for Bovine Spirit:)Oh, and POWER OVERWHELMING.

Any hunter trees out there?

[Bob the Beholder]

Oh, man. For things like this, my recent lurking forums of choice have been the official warrior forums. So much bitching, by so many people. And all of these joke talent trees, and suggested changes. There was a guy who actually suggested that Fury Warriors should basically get Bestial Wrath. Including the complete immunity to all CC effects, every two minutes--like a friggin' I Win button. And there were like five straight pages of people applauding him for seeing how warriors should be, and saying that he should be hired by Blizzard, and that it wouldn't be overpowered at all.

That priest tree was funnier, I think.

[fractaled]

Oh, man. For things like this, my recent lurking forums of choice have been the official warrior forums. So much bitching, by so many people. And all of these joke talent trees, and suggested changes. There was a guy who actually suggested that Fury Warriors should basically get Bestial Wrath. Including the complete immunity to all CC effects, every two minutes--like a friggin' I Win button. And there were like five straight pages of people applauding him for seeing how warriors should be, and saying that he should be hired by Blizzard, and that it wouldn't be overpowered at all.

I do admit a Beastial Wrath talent for warriors would be overpowered, but as someone who solo-pvps a lot in bgs/world pvp/arenas I can agree with the warrior class needing help. Until you spend a lot of time being chain CC'd through a fight -- sometimes not even intentionally (i.e. aoe fear/frost nova/shadow fury directed at someone else) -- you probably can't empathize with the frustration that is playing the warrior class.

I read the official warrior forums and I've scanned the other class forums and not noticed the same amount of whining, so I think there is a real issue.

Blizzard's CMs' answers to this has been
1) we don't balance around 1v1
2) we balance warriors around groups (i.e. "get a pocket healer")
3) we think warriors are/have been overpowered so warriors didn't get buffs

1 & 2 are downright scary. 3 *had* some merit -- it doesn't any longer.

And the other obvious answer is "wait till 70". We'll see.

[Bob the Beholder]

I do admit a Beastial Wrath talent for warriors would be overpowered, but as someone who solo-pvps a lot in bgs/world pvp/arenas I can agree with the warrior class needing help. Until you spend a lot of time being chain CC'd through a fight -- sometimes not even intentionally (i.e. aoe fear/frost nova/shadow fury directed at someone else) -- you probably can't empathize with the frustration that is playing the warrior class.

I read the official warrior forums and I've scanned the other class forums and not noticed the same amount of whining, so I think there is a real issue.

Blizzard's CMs' answers to this has been
1) we don't balance around 1v1
2) we balance warriors around groups (i.e. "get a pocket healer")
3) we think warriors are/have been overpowered so warriors didn't get buffs

1 & 2 are downright scary. 3 *had* some merit -- it doesn't any longer.

And the other obvious answer is "wait till 70". We'll see.

Yeah, there are certainly problems. And there are some changes that need to be made. But think about it like this--the majority of the nerfs that people bitch about for warriors came about because geared warriors were too effective before them. The recent rage normalization is one step towards making it so that new gear will scale a warrior up without scaling him WAAAAAY up, and can allow Blizzard to determine exactly where warriors need to be and make changes accordingly. Or so it was explained to me. And yes, I have played a 60 warrior (although not for long, and not my own), so I understand, to a degree at least, just how frustrating it is to sit there and watch the battle go by without the ability to do anything about it (On that note, I experience something similar on my mage at times. Except instead of watching and being unable to help, it's more along the lines of rolling up to a battle and having some hunter or four go, "MAGE! BIG NUMBERS!" and suddenly I find myself in the graveyard... over and over and over and over and over.)

But, yeah, anyway, my only real issue is all of the people who just don't understand anything beyond, "I am losing. I don't want to lose." And can't grasp that class balances means that every class should be pretty equal, not that everything that counters the One True Class (whichever one the player happens to play) is obviously overpowered, and needs to be made trivial, whether through buffs to them or nerfs to everything else.

I suppose the gist of what I'm trying to say here is that whiners suck, and that Blizzard generally manages to fix things okay, if you give 'em a little time.

[Arnulf]

I do admit a Beastial Wrath talent for warriors would be overpowered, but as someone who solo-pvps a lot in bgs/world pvp/arenas I can agree with the warrior class needing help. Until you spend a lot of time being chain CC'd through a fight -- sometimes not even intentionally (i.e. aoe fear/frost nova/shadow fury directed at someone else) -- you probably can't empathize with the frustration that is playing the warrior class.

I read the official warrior forums and I've scanned the other class forums and not noticed the same amount of whining, so I think there is a real issue.

Blizzard's CMs' answers to this has been
1) we don't balance around 1v1
2) we balance warriors around groups (i.e. "get a pocket healer")
3) we think warriors are/have been overpowered so warriors didn't get buffs

1 & 2 are downright scary. 3 *had* some merit -- it doesn't any longer.

And the other obvious answer is "wait till 70". We'll see.

Last time I looked the overall warrior population was between 15-20% of all players. The census site is down at the moment. For one class out of 9 this is quite much.

I guess that 90% players have at least played a warrior for a longish time or even have a level 60 warrior twink. This class is the most hands-on class of all classes. If you play a warrior you are in the midst of the action. Be it PVP or PVE you are there and doing something. There are so many things you can do as a warrior and there are so many ways to spec your warrior from defensive and turtlle to offensive and raw power.

The shortcomings are of course, being a warrior you have no range capability, no magical attacks, no way to remove magic, disease effects, poisons from yourself, no way to heal while fighting. And one large factor is of course the weapons you carry and the armour you wear. This comes to full effect in PVP where I guess 99% of all warriors are merely cannon fodder compared to the frightening arsenal mages, shadow priests, and warlocks bring to the table.

But that last one percent, that got the Über-weapons from Naxxramas and Ahn'Qiraj Temple, that miniscule fragment of the whole warrior population towers above all the rest. Because in those short moments where these powerhouses are not feared, frozen, blacked out, or conflagrated they tear through the thickest armour in seconds and wade through clothies and felling them like little boys beheading dandelions.

I do not want even 10% of all warriors like that.

[fractaled]

Last time I looked the overall warrior population was between 15-20% of all players. The census site is down at the moment. For one class out of 9 this is quite much.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. An overpopulated class is overpowered? An overpopulated class needs to be weak? Regardless, the census site I'm looking at shows them at 15%, with hunters at a little more than that. And you should be looking at 1/8 which is 12.5%, not 1/9 (add Paladins and Shamans together).

The rest of your post is rambling, except that you seem to want them to balance around the 1% of warriors that are in Naxx and killing C'Thun.

[Kevin]

The big issue with warriors is they are the most gear dependent class in the game. This makes balancing them a different animal than a class that gets a larger percentage of it's power from talents and skills. And I'm not saying that other classes aren't gear dependent, but the effect of gear on a warrior is larger than for any other class in my experience.

[Warlock]

I've played my blue geared Warrior in PVP. Yes, he gets cc'd and focus fired a fair bit. So do my Druids, it comes with being in melee range and hence being easy to tab-target or click on. (I've pretty much given up on healing in BG's since I usually go from 100% to 0 without getting control of my character that way). Check the Damage Done columns after a BG and you'll see Warriors with some big numbers.

[ima_nerd]

The only change I want is to make Bloodrage a 10-second DoT. Hunters infinite trapping me pisses me off.

[Kevin]

The only change I want is to make Bloodrage a 10-second DoT. Hunters infinite trapping me pisses me off.

You know that would fix a lot of the short comings of a warrior, a self inflicted DoT. It's already on a 1 minute cooldown, it comes at a price in PvP (takes some health). But if it's a DoT then you have a small chance that if you get it up in time to break a fear, sheep, and it will break a hunter trap, but again only once every minute. Not too bad. You could still use it to get aggro on pretty much every pull I've seen since you aren't trying to overcome all that much aggro and you have a couple of seconds for it to tick on most of the pulls or else you don't need it to tick much you just need the aggro from the rage gain and then to use that rage.

Interesting idea.

Though right now a warrior that is just in PvP gear is still pretty strong in PvP and PvP gear isn't that hard to get now. So I'm not sure they need a lot of buffing. And I can't speak on TBC because gear scaling will change a lot of stuff once again.

[Frag]

Tiga, my warrior, is my main and I do not find him gimped or in need of severe buffs in any way, shape or form.

The 10s bloodrage dot has been tossed around before, and it was explained to us that they felt (the change) would be unbalancing due to the fact that the CC's that it would primarily defeat (sheep, trap) have windows of response time and thus bloodrage could be used as an instant "counterspell" from any stance. Instead, they chose to implement Spell Reflect. SR can be difficult to use and in some sense "narrow", but it is the most balanced ability they felt they could hand us.

Being gear dependant is something of it's own curse/benefit. You can tell a warrior who cares about his toon from one who doesn't by small gear choices. Of course, the downside is most warriors all end up looking the same (give the same level of access).

Cheers & :wub:,
~Frag

[fractaled]

Tiga, my warrior, is my main and I do not find him gimped or in need of severe buffs in any way, shape or form.

"severe" buffs? So non-severe buffs are called for?

The 10s bloodrage dot has been tossed around before, and it was explained to us that they felt (the change) would be unbalancing due to the fact that the CC's that it would primarily defeat (sheep, trap) have windows of response time and thus bloodrage could be used as an instant "counterspell" from any stance.

Is it just me, or did you describe something that would require intelligent pre-meditated use to be effective and claim this is unbalancing?

Being gear dependant is something of it's own curse/benefit.

People throw this around too much -- it's a cliche. Everyone does more damage (or heals more) with better gear. Everyone has abilities that don't scale (barring the occasional odd set bonus) -- poly polys, hamstring snares, fear fears. What's changed is that at the beginning of the game, there were "uber" weapons that warriors could get. There wasn't much +dmg gear. So warriors/rogues scaled and casters didn't. Additionally, high stamina PvP gear didn't become truly accessible for a while. Prior to that time, it was true, warriors were "gear dependent", and once they got that gear, they were buff. Blizzard has fixed both of those issues now and now some of the deficiencies in the warrior PvP model are showing.

You can tell a warrior who cares about his toon from one who doesn't by small gear choices. Of course, the downside is most warriors all end up looking the same (give the same level of access).

Care to provide examples?

[Arnulf]

The rest of your post is rambling [..]

Yes you are right, I was rambling.

I was trying (and failed to do so) to say my opinion. Which is: Warriors complain too much.

If the class is so flawed, why are so many players playing a warrior? The class is popular. So it cannot be so bad as so many claim it to be. Therefor it doesn't need any repairs or further improvements.

I should know. I have two warriors on level 60. Differently talented to Arms and Fury, respectively.

[ima_nerd]

If the class is so flawed, why are so many players playing a warrior? The class is popular. So it cannot be so bad as so many claim it to be. Therefor it doesn't need any repairs or further improvements.

For lack of caring to be nicer, that's retarded. Just because someone loves to play a Warrior in a PvE setting, doesn't mean they don't hate Warrior PvP. I'm the perfect example.

Is it just me, or did you describe something that would require intelligent pre-meditated use to be effective and claim this is unbalancing?

Wow, what an idea! Separating idiots from people who think!

Instead, they chose to implement Spell Reflect. SR can be difficult to use and in some sense "narrow", but it is the most balanced ability they felt they could hand us.

SR will be nice, but I'd still prefer a self-inflicted DoT. 4 seconds isn't a long time.

Prior to that time, it was true, warriors were "gear dependent", and once they got that gear, they were buff. Blizzard has fixed both of those issues now and now some of the deficiencies in the warrior PvP model are showing.

Know who hasn't had deficiencies show? Hunters. I hate Hunters so take what I say with a very large grain of salt but anyone who can hit me from 35+ yds away for 1500 and then sit in Mail armor and melee me with Bestial Wrath popped and win needs to be looked at as a class.

Edit: formatting

[fractaled]

I was trying (and failed to do so) to say my opinion. Which is: Warriors complain too much.

If the class is so flawed, why are so many players playing a warrior? The class is popular. So it cannot be so bad as so many claim it to be. Therefor it doesn't need any repairs or further improvements.

I question your intelligence.

It takes an investment of 3+ months to get to really play a warrior in PvP, and has no bearing on the popularity of the class. So for most players, unless you want to re-invest that time, you're stuck with the class you first rolled. Warcraftrealms.com/census.php shows 15% of levels 60s are warriors, 14% for rogues, and mages each, and 15 for hunters. Those are the 4 "dps" fantasy RPG archetypes, so it's not surprising that they're slightly more popular than random.

[Sir_Die_alot]

I haven't read a lot of thewarrior complaints but I have a few especially in PvP. PvP I think the DoT idea is perfect. Unable to use while already CCed but breaks it if you anticipate properly. If you blow it at the wrong time you just cut your HP for a neglegable amount of rage that will drop faster than the health will regen when you are out of combat. It has a reasonable amount of time on the cooldown and because its a tick damage it doens't completely nerf the CC (IE: you are still sheeped a few moments which might be the time the mage needs to get away).

I still have some complaints about how much rage I can generate as a non-DPS warrior. I'd like to see the rage from damage taken increased and get some from parrys dodges and misses. When they nerfed the rage I got from damage delt it really hurt my PvE game, especially the beginner 60 instances like blackrock and diremaul. Even tanking Onyxia torments me with "not enough rage".