Game-Changing New Powers

[Tuftears]

It's why I'm undecided on if cyclone behavior is intended or not. Hunter traps have drawbacks but with a good group do mean you can keep something in a trap pretty much forever if you like. Don't know if Blizzard is balancing around the best skilled or the average skilled. Of course even with diminishing returns you just work that into your kill order.

In my opinion, either Cyclone needs to be instant, with diminishing returns (thus analoguous to paladin Hammer of Justice) or it needs to be renewable without diminishing returns, meaning a druid could keep something CC'd indefinitely as long as he timed it well. Right now it has a 1.5 second timer, and a 6-second banish effect that becomes 4, then 2, then the mob becomes immune.

I took more damage trying to cyclone a trash mob that was going uncontrolled (stuttered my casting bar), than I would have if I had simply gone bear and bashed it. Given I have improved bash, it would have stunned the mob for longer too.

[Mavfin]

Of course with rogues and druids and caster shammy around I don't get to use my own stormstrike charges a lot. They get eaten by poisons or wrath or lightning bolts, but that's generally not a big deal. Heck it's better if wrath or a lightning bolt eats over my earth shock. :)
But I get to play with good druid and warrior tanks all the time so I don't worry too much either. :)

I was enjoying the night I was eating your Stormstrike charges. 2500+ chain/LB crits!:D(this was before the lvl 60+ ranks of LB made 2K crits commonplace with ~300 +nature, my shammy not being hugely raid-geared like my warrior.)

[Monkey]

The Hunter goes DPS Monkey mode and pulls 3 or 4 of them to him with Multishots, and...you guessed it...feigns death just as they're coming to him, putting them all on me.

Blizzard needs to have some kind of "you must be at least this smart to play this character" rule for the entire hunter class. Even hunters known as "good" raiders on my server don't have the patience to wait on bear's 2.5 swing speed. They stand at max range and immediately open with multishot, breaking all CC and snapping the nascent aggro off yours truly. Making matters worse, they don't feign until the mobs have run all the way back through the group, sending the mobs ping-ponging between the DPS, or worse stuck onto the healer.

They have the temerity to say things like, "The tank's not really tanking," And yet when I say, "Did you fire multi-shot at the beginning of that pull?" they answer, "i dunno...maybe,"

Grr.

I've developed a new solution, though, to wildly rampaging mobs at the start of a pull--I shift out of bear and cast tranquility. Then I go back to bear and taunt whatever isn't stuck to me. ph34r my 1337 bear tanking sk1lz!!!1eleven

[Mavfin]

Blizzard needs to have some kind of "you must be at least this smart to play this character" rule for the entire hunter class. Even hunters known as "good" raiders on my server don't have the patience to wait on bear's 2.5 swing speed. They stand at max range and immediately open with multishot, breaking all CC and snapping the nascent aggro off yours truly. Making matters worse, they don't feign until the mobs have run all the way back through the group, sending the mobs ping-ponging between the DPS, or worse stuck onto the healer.

They have the temerity to say things like, "The tank's not really tanking," And yet when I say, "Did you fire multi-shot at the beginning of that pull?" they answer, "i dunno...maybe,"

Grr.

Or when the CC always breaks immediately, and the hunter denies using multishot, but it doesn't happen anymore. I've bailed out of more "tank can't tank" and "stupid hunter" groups than any other type of bad PuG. And it's pretty sad that I've bailed a lot on bad tanks, considering that my main toon *is* a tank, so none of those are on her. I've *taken over tanking* on many a run with Keshi, but not bailed because of bad tank. No, only my shammy has had to bail for that reason. However, "stupid hunter" is universal.

(Note, if you're a good hunter or a good tank that I play with, you know this doesn't apply to you)

[Delc]

Or when the CC always breaks immediately, and the hunter denies using multishot, but it doesn't happen anymore. I've bailed out of more "tank can't tank" and "stupid hunter" groups than any other type of bad PuG. And it's pretty sad that I've bailed a lot on bad tanks, considering that my main toon *is* a tank, so none of those are on her. I've *taken over tanking* on many a run with Keshi, but not bailed because of bad tank. No, only my shammy has had to bail for that reason. However, "stupid hunter" is universal.

(Note, if you're a good hunter or a good tank that I play with, you know this doesn't apply to you)

Hunters are the only class that can actually make a group worse. I would rather be short a person than play with a bad hunter. I think its due to the fact that its one of the easiest classes to solo with, and one of the hardest to be in a group with. Compounded by a never ending stream of issues with pets (pathing used to be the big one). A good hunter is however an amazing asset to the group.

[Urza-DSF]

Hunters are the only class that can actually make a group worse. I would rather be short a person than play with a bad hunter. I think its due to the fact that its one of the easiest classes to solo with, and one of the hardest to be in a group with. Compounded by a never ending stream of issues with pets (pathing used to be the big one). A good hunter is however an amazing asset to the group.

I dunno, warlocks also have quite an ability to screw over a group. From personal experience if I'm not on my game I can easily DoT a CC target or two and well... then things get tricky. Then the little things like leaving cleave/anguish autocast on the felguard, not managing to re-seduce quick enough, or ripping aggro and forgetting you just got a new de-aggro skill. Maybe not on par with hunters to screw people over, but a bad lock is pretty damn bad.

[Monkey]

Hunters are the only class that can actually make a group worse. I would rather be short a person than play with a bad hunter. I think its due to the fact that its one of the easiest classes to solo with, and one of the hardest to be in a group with. Compounded by a never ending stream of issues with pets (pathing used to be the big one). A good hunter is however an amazing asset to the group.

"Soloists" (people who keep playing like they're solo even in a group) are the worst problem in pick up groups, regardless of the class they choose. But they sure do love to roll hunters;)

[Tsunami]

As a mage I got:

- Arcane Blast. Duh! At first I thought the dp/m-ratio was cool, but after the first mana cost goes through the roof, making it unsuitable for longer bossfights. But unless fully charged, it is too far behind fireball and frostbolt dps-wise. I am deep-frost right now, so that might be different for an arcane build.:)

- Ice Lance: Nice thing for soloing, very situational in groups as frozen mobs tend to break and the DPS-spikes of a 2500ish frostbolt and another 1800ish ice lance usually means aggro. In itself, the ability is really good, but nothing that will help in raiding.

- Invisibility: Nice gadget for wipes or tight spots you have to get through. The aggro-reducing part is not really worth it, since invisibility won't work well if you have aggro (as you might get damage in the fade phase), and if you don't, stopping to nuke for a couple of seconds does the trick as well.

- The new armor: Nice if you don't get hit. 3% crit is a huge boost, but some BC mobs hit hard enough that ice (or mage) armor is preferrable by far. Maybe I'm just conservative.:)

So far nothing game-changing for me up to level 68, although ice lance is shiny.

[Quark]

- Invisibility: Nice gadget for wipes or tight spots you have to get through. The aggro-reducing part is not really worth it, since invisibility won't work well if you have aggro (as you might get damage in the fade phase), and if you don't, stopping to nuke for a couple of seconds does the trick as well.

Stopping means less DPS. Aggro reducing tools are for pushing DPS as far as possible.

[Watto44]

Stopping means less DPS. Aggro reducing tools are for pushing DPS as far as possible.

On paper (my mage is only level 65 at the moment) I'm having difficulties seeing the PvE benefit of using invisibility at all. It takes eight seconds to take full affect - during which time you're not casting - and is broken if you get hit or act. It obviously doesn't work the way vanish or feign death, or even feint, do, but I'm struggling to see its purpous. I'm sure it has one, I just can't figure it out.:)

Can one of our mages tell me when and why they're using invisibility. It's an ability that I'm looking forward to experimenting with, but having some knowledge ahead of time would be nice.:)

[Delc]

On paper (my mage is only level 65 at the moment) I'm having difficulties seeing the PvE benefit of using invisibility at all. It takes eight seconds to take full affect - during which time you're not casting - and is broken if you get hit or act. It obviously doesn't work the way vanish or feign death, or even feint, do, but I'm struggling to see its purpous. I'm sure it has one, I just can't figure it out.:)

Can one of our mages tell me when and why they're using invisibility. It's an ability that I'm looking forward to experimenting with, but having some knowledge ahead of time would be nice.:)

I've seen a couple mages use it to save repair costs on a wipe. Now mages can join the club of classes that run into the corner rather than fighting it out when the fight is lost.

/em runs off to go hellfire to death to avoid repair costs.

[Bob the Beholder]

As a mage I got:

- Arcane Blast. Duh! At first I thought the dp/m-ratio was cool, but after the first mana cost goes through the roof, making it unsuitable for longer bossfights. But unless fully charged, it is too far behind fireball and frostbolt dps-wise. I am deep-frost right now, so that might be different for an arcane build.:)

It seems, Arcane Blast may be useful for raiding anyway. There was some math done on the mage forums supporting that simply weaving it into your spell rotation once every eight or nine seconds (since the first cast has a ridiculously low mana cost, for damage and cast time similar to that of a frostbolt) can increase overall damage over a lengthy fight.

[Quark]

On paper (my mage is only level 65 at the moment) I'm having difficulties seeing the PvE benefit of using invisibility at all. It takes eight seconds to take full affect - during which time you're not casting - and is broken if you get hit or act. It obviously doesn't work the way vanish or feign death, or even feint, do, but I'm struggling to see its purpous. I'm sure it has one, I just can't figure it out.:)

If you're using it as an aggro drop, don't wait all eight seconds. The aggro is reduced over time. And if a 50% drop isn't good enough, something is clearly going wrong.

[Skandranon]

On paper (my mage is only level 65 at the moment) I'm having difficulties seeing the PvE benefit of using invisibility at all. It takes eight seconds to take full affect - during which time you're not casting - and is broken if you get hit or act. It obviously doesn't work the way vanish or feign death, or even feint, do, but I'm struggling to see its purpous. I'm sure it has one, I just can't figure it out.:)

Can one of our mages tell me when and why they're using invisibility. It's an ability that I'm looking forward to experimenting with, but having some knowledge ahead of time would be nice.:)

It's a five second fade. Use it when your aggro is getting near the tank's - purging your aggro completely by going invisible lets you nuke with impunity for the rest of the fight. If you aren't conscious of where your threat level is relative to the tank's, use a mod like Kenco Threat Meter to help you out.

It's a proactive threat dump, which is the way that many hunters use FD or rogues use Vanish anyway. Using it right takes a bit of learning.

Also it helps you escape wipes when properly timed - it throws you out of combat. And if you really need it, it's a second Evocation on fights with no environment damage - just spam drink as soon as your invis goes off.

[ima_nerd]

Also it helps you escape wipes when properly timed - it throws you out of combat. And if you really need it, it's a second Evocation on fights with no environment damage - just spam drink as soon as your invis goes off.

Mm, I saw somewhere that you can't do that. Can anyone confirm? (I'm at work)

[Trien]

Re: Cyclone...

I've found the spell to be extremely situational. PvE I've found almost no use for it at all except to annoy people for 6s while they wonder why they can't damage the mob. Maybe if a mob is rushing at another healer and I just need to keep him off for a few seconds until a tank can get there and grab it (assuming I'm in healing mode and not tanking).

PvP, I've found it to be somewhat limited as well. Probably the main usage of it for me is to get 2 heals off in succession... either in the form of an 'emergency' one-point maim for a 2s stun, which'll give me enough time to get the cyclone off, and then heal... or on occasion after a bash in bear form, It doesn't seem to be a whole lot of use as a CC in dealing with 2 players at once, save perhaps 2 melee if you happen to get a nature's grasp off maybe. And in a group situation, to preemptively CC a healer so they can't throw a heal to their teammate while your group finishes them off.

As a generic CC spell though... I haven't found a terrible amount of usage for it.

[Alrin]

On the note of seeing amusing requests for PUGs, I always chuckle when I see people asking for pug Arcatraz runs. Especially when I /who the people asking and I remember them from old pugs in IF and I played with them on alts. Then I feel grateful for having a tight group that I run with 90% of the time and I dont have to deal with the .. hmm .. less than skilled individuals inhabiting the general chat in the game:)

I'll have to admit, Arcatraz is the most fun and challenging place sofar though.
And it's a kicker watching the pugs trying to assemble random groups to run this place.

[Skandranon]

Mm, I saw somewhere that you can't do that. Can anyone confirm? (I'm at work)

Some encounters have area effect damage or "pulse" invisible effects that constantly throw you into combat, and you can't invis-drink on those. However, some don't, and you can invis-drink on those fights.

[Bolty]

I'll have to admit, Arcatraz is the most fun and challenging place sofar though.
And it's a kicker watching the pugs trying to assemble random groups to run this place.

Just ran Arcatraz for the first time last night. What a rush that place is, and a blast to heal. Only deaths on the run were due to two messy pulls, and me dying twice on the end boss thanks to getting mind flayed twice in a row. Not sure how that can be handled with only one healer. If the healer gets double-mind flayed, there's nobody to bail them out (think AQ40 post-Emps trash packs, complete with mind controls and huge mind flays that disable you). They should let Millhouse interrupt those mind flays somehow. Inevitably your healer's going to get nailed by one, and if the RNG decides to hit the healer again right after, you lose. Else you have another class capable of healing along who can astutely see it happening and save the day.

Still, Improved Dyi...I mean, Spirit of Redemption can go a long way, now that it's 15 second duration.

I just don't see any PuGs successfully running that place, not until people start getting overgeared for it again. I can imagine that early PuGs of UBRS/Scholomance were the same way - hopeless. Blizzard will either nerf it eventually or else the gear curve will ease it out.


Like the Steamvault, Arcatraz is a showcase of the power of Prayer of Mending. I sometimes read the WoW Priest boards and see Priests posting there about how useless PoM is and I can't help but wonder what they're smoking. We have the best heal in the game and they don't "get it."

-Bolty

[Legedi]

I ran tanked Shadow Lab for the first time a few days ago, and it was my first instance with Intervene. While I heard people say intervene wasn't so good, I liked it very much. It's not the most convient ability to use on it's own, but I found a macro that helps it out:

#showtooltip Intervene
/cast [help] Intervene; [target=targettarget, help] Intervene;
/startattack

You cast Intervene on a friendly target. With this mod I can just keep the mob targeted, and I'll Intervene on who has aggro. Intervene also stops auto attacks, so I think the /startattack at the end should make you keep attacking (didn't get to test that part out yet).

Anyways, back the the Shadow Lab run. There are those Felguard guys that like to fear, knockback, and deaggro. They are also immune to stun. Intercept always was annoying on moving mobs that are immune to stun. I would Intercept them, but they would be our of range by the time I got there. Intervene, on the other hand, takes me right to the person that has aggro. So some times I could get to the player that had aggro before the Felguard. I haven't noticed the "intercepting the next melee or ranged attack made against them" part yet, but it sure doesn't hurt.;)

I can see this ability being worked into bosses, where the boss will wind up a random-target ranged shot, that would one-shot a non-tank, and a warrior will have to Intervene it. Or a boss that does something like 2-3 quick hard hits that would kill any tank. But if 1-2 warriors Intervene it each would take one non-fatal hit. Seems like there are a lot of options.

And the fact that it doesn't require stance dancing is a nice plus also:).