economics of prospecting

[Ynir]

I am trying to figure out the economics of prospecting. This is just an exercise, really, because I do enchanting and jeweling to buff myself and my friends.

But my ore supplier wants to know why bother prospecting if he can make more money selling ore. This is a reasonable question.

Estimating conservatively, I get 1 small gem per 5 ore, and one biggie per 40.

So, 8 x 3 g for smalls and 45 g for biggie at Stormrage AH yields 69 g per 40 ore. This compares with 1.5 - 2 g per unprospected ore. If my numbers are wrong, they aren't very wrong. They tell us to sell the ore, and forget about prospecting.

As for the economics of jewelcrafting, there are none, and won't be, as long as the price of mats is greater than that of finished products.

As for rings, necks, & trinkets, the +stamina items seem to sell in small quantities. Some of the hi-end designs might become popular as the end game progresses, but it's not apparent to me which are the good ones.

Is anything known about the drop rate of biggies from fel vs adamantite ore?

[Ynir]

Frazzledog posted this reply about prospecting rates for rare gems:

Fel iron (1%):

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=23424#V0Rzc - Click on the prospecting tab.

Adamantite (2.5%):

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=23425#m0Rzc

And remember by rare I mean rare quality - like star of elune, nightseye, etc.

I use Wowhead a lot and never noticed the prospecting tab.:blush:

[Xanthix]

As for the economics of jewelcrafting, there are none, and won't be, as long as the price of mats is greater than that of finished products.

In general in WoW and other MMO's, the economy is driven more by the crafters who are trying to get skillups, and not by consumers who want items. There are more characters trying to level up their tradeskills, than there are characters who want/need most of the consumables and items that the trades make. So it is the crafters who pay the premium to do a combine or prospect or smelt or craft.

This is especially true right now, as many people are still working on leveling jewelcrafting at the same time. I suspect it will get better over time, at least for the high-demand items that can be gotten from prospecting and crafting.

[Flymo]

It's always like that in my experience (and I've tried all professions except blacksmithing). The gathering professions make a lot of money and cost nothing to level up. The crafting professions make little or no money and cost a lot to level up. The economics mean it couldn't really be any other way, since if something was profitable to make everyone would make it until it wasn't any more.

I only take a crafting profession if I need it to make something bop, and unless I have to keep it to continue using that item I drop it again immediately.

[Brista]

The economics mean it couldn't really be any other way, since if something was profitable to make everyone would make it until it wasn't any more.

This isn't completely true

Some things that are profitable to make are controlled by rare or hard to get recipes or materials. These have tended to be money-spinners (the +3% to hit scope is a good example of this)

With regard to jewelcrafting my friend is making money crafting gems to order. Someone will ask for a gem, he'll see if it's on the AH, add a premium, ask if they want it and if they do, buy it out, craft the jewel and sell it to them for the agreed profit

He makes quite a lot of money doing that, he prospects his ores I think to provide a better service and cover supply shortages so for him prospecting as part of supporting his reputation as a good jewelcrafter is worth the loss of short term revenue that he suffers because he is not selling his ores

I would also make the point that in other MMOs crafting has been handled differently and has been more successful in promoting a genuine economy. In SWG for instance crafting cost you skill points so that if you were a top crafter you weren't a top pvper/healer or whatever. In return for this sacrifice you had the opportunity to make items which were better than pve-obtained loot. Of course people who built their characters to kill stuff complained bitterly about rip-off wealthy crafters and so forth.

WoW's system suits its demographic: simple, undemanding, available to everyone, but with just a glimmer of hope that you may in some way become better than everything else. Everything in WoW is designed for this demographic tbh

[Monkey]

As for the economics of jewelcrafting, there are none, and won't be, as long as the price of mats is greater than that of finished products.

Part of the problem with your economic analysis is that you're stepping from Ore->Cut Gems. You should really go from Mining->Jewelcrafting Products.

When I'm out mining Adamantite, I'll pick up:
1. Adamantite Ore
2. Motes of Earth
3. Uncommon gems
4. Eternium Ore
5. Rare gems

In roughly that order of occurence from most often (#1) to least often (#5). Along the way I'll pick up fel iron and khorium. The fel iron goes in the mail to a Blacksmithing friend (he likewise sends me his spare gems). For every stack of Adamantite I mine, I'm also picking up a Primal Earth and several gems. So the gem supply from prospecting the stack of adamantite is not the entire flow of gems from the activity of mining, it's only part of it.

That being said, I think the intent may be for Gem Cutting to be a service (like enchanting) and not a product. With many recipes being rare BoPs, it makes more sense to me to provide the service of cutting gems and not attempt to anticipate market demand for +8 Parry.

However, I rolled Jewelcrafting for the benefit of my friends and have no intention of ever making money on it.

[TheDragoon]

I think the point was that all of that extra stuff that you listed was due to Mining, not Jewelcrafting. It's true that you might very well get other cool stuff like the motes, rare ore, etc. However, that in no way opposes the idea of taking your ore, selling it and buying gems rather than prospecting with that ore in order to get gems. :)

However, I agree that I generally look at the production professions as a service rather than something I expect to make money from. That way I'm not disappointed when it's a huge money sink rather than a money maker.

[Artega]

I think the point was that all of that extra stuff that you listed was due to Mining, not Jewelcrafting. It's true that you might very well get other cool stuff like the motes, rare ore, etc. However, that in no way opposes the idea of taking your ore, selling it and buying gems rather than prospecting with that ore in order to get gems. :)

However, I agree that I generally look at the production professions as a service rather than something I expect to make money from. That way I'm not disappointed when it's a huge money sink rather than a money maker.

See, you should all take Engineering. Then you can make stuff and go throw it at people and/or mobs. Who cares about making money when you can throw bombs at people?:)

[Frag]

Who cares about making money when you can throw bombs at people?:)

And this is why Artega is currently playing from prison with singed eyebrows. :P

~Frag

[Ynir]

I'm a chanter/jeweler, and my ore sources are the AH, and my brother's mining operations.

Recently I bought 2 stacks of adamantite ore (40 ores) for 15 g / stack. Prospecting produced 9 small gems and one biggie. This is repeatable, this is what I have come to expect.

Small gems are going for 2 - 3 g each, biggies are 30 - 40 g.

If this is representative, it means prospecting breaks even, and can double your money if you hit a biggie.

Some observations:

Ore prices have dropped by a factor of 2 since I last bought ore. They will rise again, however, if prospectors can routinely double their money on 2 stacks of ore.

My observed drop rate of 1 biggie to 40 ore is exactly the published prospecting rate, 2.5%.

This thread is about the economics of prospecting. It is not about mining, which always has been lucrative.

It is not about jewelcrafting, which is still in its loss leader stage. Designs cost many hundred gold, products cost more than mats, skilling up is expensive.

It may be, however, that designs (and patterns, enchants, etc.) are the only items of lasting value in the game. The only thing I still have and still use, for example, from when I bought the Crusader enchant 1.5 years ago, is the Crusader enchant.