Druid PvP Strats and Gear

[TheDragoon]

Pre-TBC, I did some PvP on my Druid, Liska, but post-TBC I have not done as much. Most of my experience is with Arathi Basin, WSG and Alterac Valley in primarily PUG groups. As such, I got used to playing primarily as a healer (despite my feral-heavy build because people never seem to heal well in PUGs) with the occasional burst of DPS or tanking (flag carrying in WSG). I usually used a somewhat hybrid set of gear and employed hybrid tactics to try and cause as much disruption and healing as possible in those battlegrounds.

However, post-TBC PvP seems entirely different. I have recently found a group of friends to do 5v5 PvP with and I am at a loss as to what would be best to do, as a Druid. I am in group with two other healers, so it is not really necessary that I focus on healing. So what should I do and what type of gear to look for? I am imagining that it would probably be best to throw on my feral gear and try to help DPS things down and also shift out to use Cyclone for added disruption.

I would be very interested to hear from some of you other Druids (I know there are several out there) that have done some post-TBC arena PvP. Does anyone here have experience with their Druid in such a role? Do you think that there is a better role for a Druid? What are some tricks of the trade that you guys have picked up for playing a Druid in PvP?

For reference, here's the profile for my Druid. I logged out with the PvP gearset that I had imagined, but it appears it hasn't updated just yet. Basically, I used most of my best hybrid feral gear (T4 hat, gloves, shoulders, Tree Mender's Belt, etc) with the +40 intellect trinket from Karazhan (for mana in case I need more for shifting or hitting Tranquility). I know that one quick upgrade I need to do is to get the PvP trinket, but I am not sure if there is a better focus I should look for in gear. Any gear suggestions would also be welcome. :)

[Bolty]

I don't know crap about Druids in PvP. I only know that cyclone irritates me. :)

But you might find some really great info over at Elitist Jerk's PvP Forum. A nice thread about feral druids and arena play has some choice tidbits, like this one from Leleth:

Damage:
Since I am most of the time free to use my form of choice I take catform on this one. (obviously )
Our Damage is great while we do not do anything else. We can easily stay on a target and provide semi manafree, very high burstdamage.
While featuring 149% speed due to the gladiator set bonus it is simply trivial to shred harmstringed targets. Even if you decide not to blow the mana for breaking the snare, your energy is still regenerating and your damage will be even more bursty. Depleting 3 shreds for 42 Energy for 2700 damage per crit within 4 seconds is simply amazing burst.

While my damage in bearform is lacking I can still charge to a harmstringed target and stay on it because I am simply faster (while harmstringed myself) and my bearform does more damage to your squishy than your warrior does on my 14k armor. Sometimes I simply choose to stay in catform and tank one warrior.
(Having the warrior on myself frees up our hunter to do his shot rotation and that nearly doubles his damage)

-> No meelee class works without snared targets in a group situation.


Healing
I got about 6500 mana. Switching to my healer staff I feature roughly 730 addhealing.
You will not out heal anyone as a feralbuild though. I usualy switch to healermode if my paladin or shaman cry "sheeped", "counterspelled" or anything similar into their microphones. I am there to cover the healing for a few crucial seconds. This is also the point where I switch to defensive cycloning.
Tranquility is amazing for that job.
Problem: Druid heals are designed to work over time. So the classes healing style does not support my roll as the emergency healer perfectly. (no NS/Swiftmend)
Usually I can buy the few seconds needed for my healers to recover.


Crowd Control
A druid can shut down 2 healers at the same time for about 9 seconds with a combination of bear and cat. One target can always be cycloned.
Usualy I only cyclone healers while
a) I need to shift anyway because of a snare/root/...
B)I just blew my finisher and need energy anyway
c) I feel the target will die

-> all of our CCs need to be maintained.

Anyway, I recommend you read the whole thread. Choice moves like cycloning the enemy MS warrior from stealth to break up their whole attack rhythm, and using cyclone/bear charge to shut down two players at once for that short burst of time are sweet.

-Bolty

[oldmandennis]

I have not found feral druids to be that useful in arenas. I get the best results by being as spastic as possible. If we try to play offensively, I try and help the train for a couple of hits, then shift and cyclone a healer. If there is a melee dps running around I may try and root them, then back to cyclone. If somebody is low on health, I may try and regrowth them, then either shift charge bash the healer I was harrassing earlier, or back to cat to attack the train.

If we are playing defensively, it usually means they have a MS warrior charging us hard. Start stealthed, then shift and immeadiatly cyclone the warrior to decapitate their attack. I guess that will probably get trinketed now, I haven't played since the patch. Cyclone again, and try and time roots to go off right after. Hopefully by then your team has done enough damage to pressure their healers and the dispell is slow.

Definately you want to have 8kish mana at least. Don't forget to pop innervate early.

But I'd say feral is the weakest tree of a pretty weak class for arena's. If I were to respec for arenas, I'd probably go with a healing touch build, though if you have pleanty of healers already moonkin isn't terrible.

[TheDragoon]

Since not many people have added much here, here is my experience from our first night of 5v5 arena PvP.

Our group composition was two healers (resto shaman and raid healer priest), two DPS (warrior and rogue) and me on my feral druid. Fortunately, my raiding group has made some good progress in Karazhan, Gruul and Magtheridon, so my druid had 4 pieces of Malorne which makes for very nice, well-rounded gear. Otherwise, I stuck with mostly my standard cat gear, though I used my healer trinkets for the +40 intellect for some extra longevity and some mana regeneration.

Going in, I was not real sure what my role would be, but I knew that a druid can be a very disruptive force through use of cyclone, entangling roots, feral charge, bash and maim. As we started out, I was primarily trying to disrupt the other team's healers to prevent them from healing the primary targets. This worked out ok, but we kept finding that if no one did anything to stop the other team's warrior (which was almost invariably present), it would tear our priest apart. Thus, after 6 or so matches I switched from disrupting the healers, primarily, to trying to make sure I keep the warrior in a state of perma-cyclone/roots where he basically can't do anything. In between applications, I would offen go charge a healer in cat form and mangle/shred them a couple times for combo points and then maim them for a nice stun. This worked particularly well against paladins who would often bubble out of the maim (or low life if I got some crits), making it so they did not have their bubble available later in the fight. Then I would deshift and re-CC the warrior.

I quickly decided that my UI could use some changes from how it is set up for raiding: 1. I needed larger unit frames for my teammates (so I knew how much life they had) because I normally stick with a smallish version of grid, mostly for situational awareness. 2. Setting the warrior as my focus target made CC'ing him substantially faster. 3. I needed a mod so I could see how the other team is doing (and Arena Master seemed to do the job for that).

With those changes to strategy and UI, things went much more smoothly. My favorite moment of the night was a match-up against a team with two warriors where I kept cycloning one warrior then rooting the other until diminishing returns kicked in and I switched the cyclone/root targets. After a minute or so of that, the warriors immediately turned to charge me when they got loose so I switched to bearform and "tanked" them for a while until they realized that trying to kill me when I have 14k life and 23k armor wasn't going to happen, and so they ran off. But by that time the diminishing returns for CC had worn off on them, so I repeated the whole process again. Owned.


Overall, I am not sure that I really gained very much by being a feral druid versus another type of druid. Certainly, I have more armor in bear form, I am more resistant to stuns, AoE's, and fears, but most of the time I was bouncing in and out of forms to cause as much disruption as possible. In hindsight, it might have been more effective to be a Moonkin spec since they can apply CC, have good armor (though not as good as me, due to the massive +armor I have on my leather) and nuke all from the same form. However, that isn't going to happen with me since I have basically zero moonkin gear and awesome feral gear. :) On the bright side, there were only two or three matches out of 27 where I ran out of mana and had to stop shifting/deshifting, so maybe that wasn't a big deal.

So here's a summary of lessons learned from the first night of PvP:
1. Playing to cause maximum disruption (with focus on classes that are a threat to our healers) was effective.
2. Setting up the UI to support /focus for Cyclone targetting worked well.
3. Having a good sized mana pool is a definite plus since I was shifting and deshifting very frequently.
4. I was rarely focus fired until the other healers were targetted, so I was usually free to do as I pleased.
5. I should remember to use Remove Curse in the future (in hindsight, I realized I had neglected this)

[Bolty]

5. I should remember to use Remove Curse in the future (in hindsight, I realized I had neglected this)

From a healer's perspective, removing Curse of Tongues is critical since you are the only one in the group that can remove it (no mage). Once a Warlock places Curse of Tongues on me, I'm relegated to instant casts only, and mana burn is simply not going to be usable at all.

That said, you have a heck of a lot of things to do in an arena, and prioritizing is the key to it all. If we're not getting bursted at the moment, clearing a Curse of Tongues isn't as important as keeping an enemy healer occupied, for instance - and if it's devastating enough to me, I'll trinket out of it (assuming my 2 minute cooldown is ready).

The sheer controlled chaos of 5v5 sure is fun.

-Bolty

[Arshes]

My experiences have been half and half in pvp and arena being feral. The one thing I've noticed is if there is a druid on the other team being feral is completely useless. One word: Hibernate. I can't hang out in bear or cat for more then bursts or I'll be asleep for the fight where it counts.

From my experiences it leads me to believe that Moonkin would be the strongest pvp/arena spec. Moonkins can't be Hibernated, and they can still cast Cyclone. Not to mention with the right gear they can kick out good burst damage and their armor makes them not a pushover target for melee to pick on.

[Brista]

Scare beast is also annoying for Ferals. But a lot of Hunters don't use it. They can pretty much own you if they do - you can't even trinket out of it since you're in form.

Abolish poison is hell for Rogues since poison is their main way to maintain range.

It is always worth cycloning someone who is not getting diminished effect. 1.5 seconds of your time against 6 seconds of their time. If you can cyclone 4 (all except your team's focus target), then repeat they are in trouble. I don't know if it's possible to macro that, eg Focus #1, Focus #2 etc. Possibly you could do it by name if you keep getting drawn against the same team. Would be incredibly good. Effectively it's one vs four for 9 seconds, he's toast.

Entangling Roots is wierd. Sometimes it breaks quite quickly sometimes it lasts for ages. If your root breaks fast put a new one on and hope you get one of those lucky roots that just doesn't seem to break. For both root and fear it doesn't help to have damage ticking on your target so train your teammates not to dot everyone up. Just get one guy down fast. Even if their dispellers are on the case matching your 1.5s cast against their instant is acceptable since an instant has 1.5s global cooldown and they can't heal if chain dispelling your chain roots (especially if you cyclone them then re-root).

Mages function best quite close up. Root makes them Blink and they really don't have time to do anything much after blinking before your next Root lands. If you root them 30 yards away they've lost all their instants and are pretty ineffective. (And of course they might Blink so far that your second Root keeps them out of the fight till it wears off. Roots is suprisingly good against mages. They always Blink when Rooted so you can "aim" your mage, placing them somewhere they will be useless when re-rooted.

Root damage is kinda nice. If you have spare points take the Druid talent that buffs Root and Thorns damage, it all helps. Talented it's just over 600 if the full duration runs, not boosted by your spell damage and resisted by their Nature Resist, but still nice little extra bit of attrition.

If you still have 2 pieces of Cenarion equip it to buff Thorns on people before the fight. 43-44 damage with both Cenarion and talent.

It's absolutely wonderful being so tanky. Most teams win games when they get a kill before the other guys. On a personal note it's kinda humiliating to always be the one picked on and killed so a) be glad it's not you andB)be nice to whoever gets picked on :)

Most 5v5 matches I've played have the following set up

- 2 healers
- 2 nukers
- either a third nuker or someone disrupting the healer

The second set up is way better to my mind. Did some with my pally and we kept getting the same team. We won the first after that one Mage was assigned to me and another Pally. Poly, Poly, Counterspell, Dragon's Breath, Poly, Poly, dead team mate, much whining about sucky healers, me and other Pally didn't play for them again. Effectively that Mage hit us so hard he killed our team forever :(

[TheDragoon]

That said, you have a heck of a lot of things to do in an arena, and prioritizing is the key to it all. If we're not getting bursted at the moment, clearing a Curse of Tongues isn't as important as keeping an enemy healer occupied, for instance - and if it's devastating enough to me, I'll trinket out of it (assuming my 2 minute cooldown is ready).

Agreed, however if I realize that Curse of Tongues is on you, it is very easy to simply remove it as soon as I finish a cyclone and before I shift to cat or bear. So it really shouldn't be too bad.. I just need to realize to do it. :)

[Brista]

Agreed, however if I realize that Curse of Tongues is on you, it is very easy to simply remove it as soon as I finish a cyclone and before I shift to cat or bear. So it really shouldn't be too bad.. I just need to realize to do it. :)

Decursive?

[TheDragoon]

Decursive?

Or just set my Grid to show the debuff more prominently. :)

[oldmandennis]

Scare beast is also annoying for Ferals. But a lot of Hunters don't use it. They can pretty much own you if they do - you can't even trinket out of it since you're in form.

You can trinket in forms.

[Taelas]

Mages function best quite close up. Root makes them Blink and they really don't have time to do anything much after blinking before your next Root lands. If you root them 30 yards away they've lost all their instants and are pretty ineffective. (And of course they might Blink so far that your second Root keeps them out of the fight till it wears off. Roots is suprisingly good against mages. They always Blink when Rooted so you can "aim" your mage, placing them somewhere they will be useless when re-rooted.

Eh... NO.

Play a mage sometime.

[Artega]

I love it when Mages play close up. I get to beat on their frail bodies without having to chase them around in circles. Much easier for me to curbstomp them that way.

[Brista]

You can trinket in forms.

OK good to know

[Brista]

Eh... NO.

Play a mage sometime.

Explain?

[Artega]

Explain?

Mages survive by playing keep-away with melee classes (and playing the deadzone against hunters.) A Mage that's willingly running into melee range is probably going to be magebombing, which is a suicide tactic (you generally don't do it and expect to come out of it alive.) Even if you have great Resilience and solid HP, a Mage in melee range is a dead Mage.

[Tal]

Even if you have great Resilience and solid HP, a Mage in melee range is a dead Mage.

Also a mage that is likely going to be locked down and spelllocked.:)

Then dead.;)

[Bolty]

Mages survive by playing keep-away with melee classes (and playing the deadzone against hunters.)

And, to expand on what Artega wrote, playing keep-away with Priests to stay clear of Psychic Scream, and playing keep away from Shamans to stay clear of totems, and playing keep-away from Warlocks to avoid their pets and Howl of Terror, and playing keep-away from...well, you get the idea.

The only class I can think of that a Mage actually wants to stay close to is a Hunter.

-Bolty

[Kevin]

The only class I can think of that a Mage actually wants to stay close to is a Hunter.

-Bolty

And even then they need to be careful. I've melee'd down a few mages, with beastial wrath up and my trinkets popped I can crit right around 2000 damage with my sonic spear and that isn't that great a melee damage weapon. If there is anyone else helping me attack the mage I still hurt up close. Plus you'll hit the mage with wing clip and so many mages seem to blink instinctively if they get slowed. If a mage can root me (trinket and beastial wrath in cooldown) and sit in my deadzone they destroy me, but a lot of them end up too close or too far away. What mages do that really hurts me is get in the 20 yard range where most of the instants can hit me and play LoS games, and there are plenty you can play in the arenas, after smacking me with something. Or they will take a ranged hit to hit me with a big spell. The chill effects help them a lot with this since they can move faster than me.

Of course a lot of hunters forget they can do decent melee damage and even with attacks auto swapping from ranged shots to melee swings won't hit a raptor strike or wing clip, or won't decide to just stay there and melee and take the damage. Of course I have deterrance as well so that I can jump up to about 80% avoidance for 10 seconds so I'm a bit more used to not always trying to get range, especially if I'm out of tricks right then (trap, trinket, beastial wrath(scatter when I'm marks spec) all cooling down) and/or my healer isn't in danger. Sometimes I fight back sometimes I pop it just to be able to cut my damage while I'm trying to ranged DPS someone else down. But I've killed warriors, rogues, shaman, mages, and other hunters in melee. In arenas I won't bother with it on priests, pallies, and warlocks since they have no way to snare me so I can get range again with just wing clip, though in battle grounds there are times I'll melee them to death because I'm staying out of LoS of their friends. Wing clip spam is also a pretty good way to proc kill command for a little more damage. But if they have you snared and you keep them snared you can't get range on them until you can remove the snare. So your options are try to get range on them anyway doing very little damage or just melee back until you can get free and do some damage to them in the process. With monkey up most hunters should have right around 25% dodge + parry and 5 to 6K armor. That is decent melee avoidance and mitigation. If they bother to keep their melee skills current they can still do OK damage in melee (not ranged DPS levels but OK and if you can get a windfury totem wing clip spam can make it good melee damage). PvP is the only place where I'm alright with the gear being itemized as +AP and not +RAP. For PvE I want all the gear to be +RAP so that I can have more of it since it is cheaper item budget and since I will never need to melee in PvE unless I'm being silly.

And I'm not saying it's a good idea for hunters to melee a lot (except against other hunters who don't expect it and who just try to get range and don't hurt you bacK) but that in a full health 1v1 fight I can actually melee many classes to death, just not nearly as fast as I can shoot them to death and mages are the easiest of all the classes (next to bad hunters) that I'll bother with to melee to death. If I were marks and had silencing shot I might want to get back to range faster on mages, but I'm not right now so if they want to play in melee range I'll happily kill them before they can kill me (gear depending I'm decently geared on my hunter if the mage clearly outgears me they'll kill me however they want to kill me)

[Taelas]

Explain?

Mages don't like melee. They have two instants that are used regularly which require them to be within 20 feet range, that's it. Fireblast and Cone of Cold/Dragon's Breath (same cooldown, so I count 'em as one). The rest of the time, they want to be AWAY from you. The only class they want to be somewhat close to are hunters, to play in the deadzone (which is the only way to beat a good hunter); any other ranged class doesn't have a minimum range, and might have a short maximum range on some spells (AoE spells like priest fear, for instance).

Secondly, counterspell is instant and is off the GCD. Counterspelling you after Blinking is easily doable(assuming it isn't on cooldown), and seeing as Entangling Roots is nature, he locks down your healing tree if he catches you in the middle of the cast (which he likely will). Add to that mages have other ways of escaping Roots than Blink. Versus a Feral druid, I'd save Blink for either Pounce or Bash (and Feral Charge once Bash is on CD).

EDIT: Oh, and there's Frost Nova as well, but that's a way of keeping distance.