Priest Healing PvP

[Bolty]

See, this is why we need a PvP forum. :)

Ever run into any hunters in 2v2? I know it's a rough bracket for the class but I just wonder if the pet annoyance on you helps any or if you can spare a GCD every now and then for a shield and/or renew.

Gotta admit, no, I don't see a lot of Hunters in 2v2. I can't remember the last time I fought one in 2v2, actually.

I remember playing a 5v5 against a group with 3 Hunters, though. It was in the Nagrand arena, and they took position out in the open and actually expected us to walk out there in the open and get destroyed. Nuh-uh, didn't play that game - we hid behind a pillar and made them come to us. We're not that stupid. :) But I was thinking after we won the match that a 3-Hunter group would positively destroy the groups that like to mount up and charge in to catch the enemy by surprise. Hello, 3 Hunter traps! Pew pew pew, die die die!

Hunter pets don't bother me, sadly. They follow me around, beat me up some, and trigger all my anti-crit talents. Remember, even their white hits can trigger these talents. Your pets are much more disruptive to a healer who doesn't have such talents and doesn't have shields. You'd have to consider your pet as a mana-drainer for me since I will obviously have to heal myself some and blow mana that way.

Typically though if I see an enemy Hunter I will look to stay out of their LOS at all times. If they get close to me, I'll fear, and that'll send their pet running as well. I do not want to get Viper Stung, Scatter Shot, or Silencing Shot. Those are the three ways to really irritate me.

If a Hunter sends in their pet on me without anyone else around at the onset of a fight, my Avatar will just kill it for me. But that's par for the course.

I fear Felhunters WAAAAAAAAY more than Hunter pets. Curse of Tongues + Felhunter and I might as well just stand there and take it, because I've just been brought down to 20% usefulness.

Note: Hunter pets against Shadow Priests or healing Priests not spec'ed for PvP will really, really do a good job though. If the Shadow Priest wants to take the pet out to gain freedom, well, that's time and mana not spent on you and your partner...if not, best of luck getting off Mind Flays.

-Bolty

[Mavfin]

See, this is why we need a PvP forum. :)

So make one, boss. We'll keep an eye on it. :D

I'm not much on PvP, but I'm finding this discussion interesting.

[Kevin]

See, this is why we need a PvP forum. :)
Gotta admit, no, I don't see a lot of Hunters in 2v2. I can't remember the last time I fought one in 2v2, actually.

I remember playing a 5v5 against a group with 3 Hunters, though. It was in the Nagrand arena, and they took position out in the open and actually expected us to walk out there in the open and get destroyed. Nuh-uh, didn't play that game - we hid behind a pillar and made them come to us. We're not that stupid. :) But I was thinking after we won the match that a 3-Hunter group would positively destroy the groups that like to mount up and charge in to catch the enemy by surprise. Hello, 3 Hunter traps! Pew pew pew, die die die!

Hunter pets don't bother me, sadly. They follow me around, beat me up some, and trigger all my anti-crit talents. Remember, even their white hits can trigger these talents. Your pets are much more disruptive to a healer who doesn't have such talents and doesn't have shields. You'd have to consider your pet as a mana-drainer for me since I will obviously have to heal myself some and blow mana that way.

Typically though if I see an enemy Hunter I will look to stay out of their LOS at all times. If they get close to me, I'll fear, and that'll send their pet running as well. I do not want to get Viper Stung, Scatter Shot, or Silencing Shot. Those are the three ways to really irritate me.

If a Hunter sends in their pet on me without anyone else around at the onset of a fight, my Avatar will just kill it for me. But that's par for the course.

I fear Felhunters WAAAAAAAAY more than Hunter pets. Curse of Tongues + Felhunter and I might as well just stand there and take it, because I've just been brought down to 20% usefulness.

Note: Hunter pets against Shadow Priests or healing Priests not spec'ed for PvP will really, really do a good job though. If the Shadow Priest wants to take the pet out to gain freedom, well, that's time and mana not spent on you and your partner...if not, best of luck getting off Mind Flays.

-Bolty

Yeah I was starting to think that a PvP spec priest isn't that annoyed by a pet, but I figured I'd take the opportunity to ask. :) Just like a paladin running concentration aura doesn't care much about the pet. It just because a DoT at that point in time. Of course I do still send my pet in right away, with a mend pet ticking and if there is anyone that can fear a beastial wrath. The stun at the right time can be really nasty. Though in general I save the stun for a DPS that is trying to get out of LoS. I don't mind if they kill the pet. I'll have time to get it back up before anyone gets to me usually (4s rez) and by then we've had the time to figure out the opponents and plan start on TS.

But yeah the pet on the shaman is my favorite because not only is it a DoT, it's disruptive. I'll probably keep it off healing priests more and just use it as extra DPS on the focus target or an annoyance on mage (if the mage isn't the first target). A mage blowing a blink or frost nova on a pet is a win in my book. Especially when I can break FN with wrath.

[oldmandennis]

although one time on a wipe to Malchezaar I dodged 2 hits and then parried one before he one-shot me

Am I crazy, or do priests not parry?

[Concillian]

Note: Hunter pets against Shadow Priests or healing Priests not spec'ed for PvP will really, really do a good job though. If the Shadow Priest wants to take the pet out to gain freedom, well, that's time and mana not spent on you and your partner...if not, best of luck getting off Mind Flays.

-Bolty

Any shadow priest will have martyrdom too, pets aren't a huge annoyance. They are free martyrdom procs and if the other team doesn't have a dispeller VE will keep up pretty well with the damage the pet is doing. Keep in mind that with S2 arena gear a shadow priest has about as much physical damage mitigation as an MS warrior.

[ima_nerd]

Am I crazy, or do priests not parry?

Was thinking the same thing:P

I've recently (last hour or so:lol:) been considering leveling my currently 60 Priest to use as a PvP character. I have a week and a half between semesters with nothing to do. So, questions for anyone willing to answer:

In a 3v3 team where I expect to be FFed, how well can I keep myself up? The most likely team makeup would be Hunter, Rogue and myself. It could be swapped to Hunter, Paladin and myself but that seems really painful and slow in the DPS department.

For the talent build - what does everyone think of Improved Inner Fire? Initially it seems worth it but the thought occurred to me that it's likely insta-dispelled. Is this the case?

I can't say I'm all too experienced in Arena play (check my Warrior's rating:whistling:) so don't use big words:D

[bonemage]

Am I crazy, or do priests not parry?

You may be crazy, but not about priests and parry.

[Treesh]

You may be crazy, but not about priests and parry.

The secret is to yell "I'm going to die!" and then that activates the secret parry ability. ;)

[Tal]

The secret is to yell "I'm going to die!" and then that activates the secret parry ability. ;)

Works for warriors too.:)

[NuurAbSaal]

Works for warriors too.:)

Hmm, in my case that usually only activates a shout of "Hell yeah!" and has 4 other people running towards the instance portal...

Perhaps I shouldn't have enforced the new loot rules of Me Gets All, Kek. Nah, can't be it.

take care
Tarabulus

[bonemage]

The secret is to yell "I'm going to die!" and then that activates the secret parry ability. ;)

Then Armory must not show it, because Necrali's parry must be 100% if that's the trigger...

[Bolty]

In a 3v3 team where I expect to be FFed, how well can I keep myself up? The most likely team makeup would be Hunter, Rogue and myself.

A Priest, just like everyone else, dies fast when being assist trained without support. How well you can keep yourself up depends greatly on your Hunter and Rogue. Both are classes with the ability to stun/disorent/lock people out of a match for a short period of time, and need to do so if you're getting trained.

However, it's very likely that you won't be the primary FF target much of the time. The Hunter will be. I'm in a 3v3 group with a Rogue/Hunter/Priest, as you are, and only now are we starting to move up (went 9-1 this week and got into the 1700's) because our Hunter started gearing up for PvP. Before then, most matches started with some solid FF on him and he'd die so fast you'd miss it if you blinked. Enemy groups know that if they FF the Hunter, the Hunter can't do much, and you're forced into a healing position (defense) instead of a dispelling/mana burning one (offense). If the other team put a solid CC on me, they could burst the Hunter down before I'd get out of it. Now that the Hunter has some PvP gear, though, that's getting harder for them.

If they focus fire on you, the Hunter/Rogue can really tear them up pretty hard and you're just playing the typical Priest here-we-go-again-time-to-heal-myself-until-I-die game. In short, focusing on you takes you out of the offense. Focusing on the Hunter takes him AND you out of the offense. That's a win for them.

The evolution of arena DPS players goes something like:

1) Haha, PHEAR MY PHAT DPS! DIE! DIE! PEW PEW PEW what do you mean everyone else is dead?
2) Hmm, straight DPS doesn't work too well, I need to do solid crowd control as well.
3) I need to control my enemies, keep pressure on them, and limit the damage I take as well.
4) I'm really just here to pressure the enemy healer(s) and run them out of mana, either by attacking them directly or by providing solid DPS on a target, before my healer(s) run out of mana. Then I can pwn!

If your Rogue/Hunter is on step 3 or higher, you'll do well :) Step 4 only really develops once you get to higher brackets where everyone has 10,000, 11,000+ hit points and hundreds of resilience. At that point, you can't burst down anyone anymore and matches become mana/attrition wars. It was a real shock last night when Quark and I, after playing at the mid-1800 level for a while, played some 3v3 at the mid-1500's level. Quark and the Hunter would just burst down enemies so fast I'd be saying "he's dead already? WTF?"

For the talent build - what does everyone think of Improved Inner Fire? Initially it seems worth it but the thought occurred to me that it's likely insta-dispelled. Is this the case?

This was my conclusion as well after running a while with Improved Inner Fire. I ditched it and went with my current build. It's not just that Improved Inner Fire can be dispelled/purged easily, it's the classic problem that 20 hits just doesn't last long. I need Inner Fire against Rogues and Warriors, right? How long does it take them to get in 20 hits, with all the specials they whack you with? Not long, in the grand scheme of things. As you get higher and higher in rankings, arena matches last longer and longer. Many times I found Inner Fire fading off and wishing I could put it back up, but doing so costs a global cooldown that I don't have to spare. I chose instead to go for cheaper dispels so that I could last in mana wars longer.

This is just my opinion. Many top Priests use Improved Inner Fire, so it's a matter of preference.

-Bolty

[LavCat]

(Note: only some of this applies to Shadow Priests)

The Burning Crusade has altered the PvP landscape. Thanks to the new invention of Arenas, Blizzard has had to pay much, much more attention to PvP balance in accordance to Arena environments - controlled, consumable-free warzones that are direct, pure PvP bouts without the constraints of strategical objectives like in the Battlegrounds. If you think this hasn't altered the balance between the classes, you either don't PvP or you live under a rock. :)
...

As always, comments/questions welcome, especially from other Priests. I keep wondering if the Lounge needs a PvP forum. :)

-Bolty

But since we don't have one: I have leveled my priest, Baguette, to 70 in the last two days. I want to get her ready for arena. For gear she has her old Field Marshal's set, supplemented with crafted items -- Unyielding set, some Frozen Shadoweave, Destruction Holo-gogs, JC rings, and after we get a few more primal mooncloth, Resolute Cape. She has always been mixed spec (Improved Mana Burn, Holy Nova, Silence and Shadow Reach). At 68 I gave her Shadowform, which was great at killing through the last half of Karazhan last night, but probably not so hot for modern PvP. When she turned 68 I did a couple of AV's with her in Shadowform. In one case a rogue kept her completely stunlocked. In another fight the rogue lost: the log showed she doged the rogue's final attack and dispatched him with a dagger stroke, just like in the old days. The rogue had the level advantage too.

In any case, Baguette wants to respec to go deeper into Discipline, 27/11/23, primarily to pick up Focused Power and Mental Agility. What she is thinking of is: Spec 1

However I am not sure two points in Improved PW:F would not be better spent in additional Silent Resolve. Comments welcome. Gear suggestions would be welcome also. How much spell hit should she try to pick up from items for Dispel to be capped? About 40? She uses Dispel a lot. Her spam macro (bound to the caps lock key) is:

/castsequence [target=mouseover, harm, nodead] [target=targettarget, harm, nodead] [] reset=6/target/combat Shadow Word: Pain, Dispel Magic

Macro ideas are welcome as well. I have never been thrilled with the published priest macros I've seen. If mana proves to be too much of an issue in arena, I would consider downranking the SW:P in the macro.


Edit: What she finally went with was very similar Spec 2

I do notice that she drinks after almost every fight in PvE. In contrast to my paladin and shaman who hardly ever need to drink. Indeed, my shaman recently finished the Sunwell dallies with drinking once.

[Bolty]

Holy thread necromancy. I mean, nothing in this thread is accurate anymore. :)

It was fun for my priest being in a Wintergrasp raid with you recently. Remembering this post I inspected your talents and was mildly surprised that you did not have Martyrdom. What is your current thinking for WotLK priest PvP?

Well, Martyrdom is nice, but it's not so worth getting when you have 2 points in Healing Focus. I mean I'd like to get it, but can't think of anything less valuable in the disc tree. Reflective Shield maybe, considering it's only valuable in certain comps (and pointless in 5v5).

But overall, Priest PvP hasn't changed in primary scope - as the only class in the game with no "escape" (if you want to count Warlocks' summoning circles), we are still tanks. The same rules apply - we are still the most gear-dependent class in PvP. A Priest with less than 500 resilience just instantly dies.

I also noted that you were not doing much dispelling (according to Recount). Are a lot of the debuffs now just not worth dispelling?

Dude, it's Wintergrasp. Most of the time I just stand around and rack up HKs.

-Bolty

[Lissa]

Dude, it's Wintergrasp.
-Bolty

Wintergrasp - a PuG trying to kill a bunch of semi-intelligent raid bosses, and even then, I use semi loosely


:whistling: