WF totem nerf hotfix

[Concillian]

Huge WF totem nerf:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.h...942924405&sid=1

Time to get out the mathstick and figure out if GoA + Flametongue is better now.

[Delc]

WF will probably still be better since FT is terrible. It might make GoA + poisons better than WF for rogues though.

[Concillian]

WF will probably still be better since FT is terrible. It might make GoA + poisons better than WF for rogues though.

Yeah, FT is not great, but it's better than a sharpening stone. Since GoA offers benefit to everyone vs. WF excluding the shaman and druid / hunter if there's one in the group, I expect GoA to become more popular, which means FT will come with it for the warrior in the group.

[Quark]

Using my last WWS parse as a math source, I was getting about a 1% DPS loss for my Combat Dagger rogue. Combat Swords will be affected more (higher % of attacks are specials), not sure about warriors.

[Concillian]

Using my last WWS parse as a math source, I was getting about a 1% DPS loss for my Combat Dagger rogue. Combat Swords will be affected more (higher % of attacks are specials), not sure about warriors.

I am estimating (not actual parses yet) a 10-15% DPS loss assuming changing from WF to GoA + FT. Lower end is DW and upper end is 2H. I haven't gotten around to estimating what WF would be with the new mechanic, because I'm highly doubting that WF will be the totem of choice for maximizing raid DPS now.

[Quark]

I am estimating (not actual parses yet) a 10-15% DPS loss assuming changing from WF to GoA + FT. Lower end is DW and upper end is 2H. I haven't gotten around to estimating what WF would be with the new mechanic, because I'm highly doubting that WF will be the totem of choice for maximizing raid DPS now.

My math was flawed, by the way, and I really don't feel like fixing it up yet again just waiting to find another flaw. (By the way, 2H users have a much easier time at the math crap). Awaiting reports from people doing new WWS logs to compare to old ones.

[Legedi]

I'm one vortex from making a Stormherald, or at least I was. If this nerf is as bad as it sounds I probably won't make it now, and instead work up to a Dragonstrike. Kind of lame that I'd have to go DW. And getting 8 primal nethers again is going to suck:(.

[oldmandennis]

I dunno... fury was already the superior spec. I don't know that this change is a big enough deal that everybody who was tryin to 2h in a raid environment needs to drop everything and switch. If anything, I would finish Stormhearld and start working towards DW. You will need to change a bunch of gear for more hit anyways I think.

[Artega]

I'm one vortex from making a Stormherald, or at least I was. If this nerf is as bad as it sounds I probably won't make it now, and instead work up to a Dragonstrike. Kind of lame that I'd have to go DW. And getting 8 primal nethers again is going to suck:(.

That Arms was capable of doing good raid DPS was pretty broken, in my opinion. Burst DPS should not equal sustained DPS<_<

[Quark]

That Arms was capable of doing good raid DPS was pretty broken, in my opinion. Burst DPS should not equal sustained DPS<_<

No, because it wasn't that great. It was similar to enh shaman - the group benefits simply made it so one arms warrior might be worth it over instead of an extra fury. Having diversity in a raid group is a good thing.

[Quark]

Possible causes:

Rogues are scaling too well in PvE
Warrior damage is too bursty in PvP
Arms v Fury in PvE

Consequences:

Rogues lowered everywhere. The scaling starts to go out of whack late T5, and takes off from there. This is a combination of haste, -armor, hit, and combat potency. Rogues below this level are hurt unnecessarily. We'll see if the scaling is still out of whack.

Warrior burst dropped in PvP. So sue me, I think this is a good thing. 2xWar/Shaman teams were getting too popular in 5v5 for a reason.

Slam builds are killed. They can't sustain the rage necessary.

Tanks TPS takes a pretty heavy hit (yes, Avarice, many raids use Windfury on the tanks for TPS). Players already threat capped are now more in trouble, players that weren't threat capped may become so.

I'd really like to see some WWS parses of before and after. My (hopefully better than last time) math is showing around 6% for Rogues, I've been hearing about 15% for Arms, and haven't heard about fury yet. But the WWS will show the real story.

[Taelas]

Well, DPS Feral druids benefit from this change, seeing as WF doesn't proc for us at all. Maybe Enh shamans will actually drop totems that benefit us now.

That said, this change absolutely sucks for rogues and warriors.

[Quark]

Well, DPS Feral druids benefit from this change, seeing as WF doesn't proc for us at all. Maybe Enh shamans will actually drop totems that benefit us now.

That said, this change absolutely sucks for rogues and warriors.

That's only if WF for the warriors/rogues doesn't still outweigh GoA for everyone. Given just how far ahead WF was before ... it probably will still be ahead, for most groups.

[Frag]

I realize I may be one of the few people that actually cares about this particular side-effect of the WF change, but damn... they may have just murdered Belf Ret Paladin dps.

Hrm,
~Frag :huh:

[Tal]

I realize I may be one of the few people that actually cares about this particular side-effect of the WF change, but damn... they may have just murdered Belf Ret Paladin dps.

Hrm,
~Frag :huh:

As a holy paladin who has to pvp versus Belf Ret paladins I cheer this change. >.>

[Frag]

But, but... everyone KNOWS that paladins can't dps, or burst! :D

2h burst in PvP & Sword Spec rogues in PvE are likely the culprits... but maybe, just maybe Blizzard realized that Seal of Blood is out of control. /shrug
~Frag :whistling:

[Concillian]

Well, DPS Feral druids benefit from this change, seeing as WF doesn't proc for us at all. Maybe Enh shamans will actually drop totems that benefit us now.

That said, this change absolutely sucks for rogues and warriors.

Looking at the bigger picture it sucks for anyone who raids. Raid DPS will go down. Looking at individuals within the raid, some go up if it makes sense to drop GoA instead of WF, but this isn't a "positive" change for any raid.

I guess if you're selfish it matters in a raid environment.

I would guess that PvP had the largest impact. Or they just forgot about what they proposed earlier and were like "oh yeah, we can do that now that there is no horde vs. alliance tack to it". I'm guessing it's been in the plans for a while.

[Mavfin]

But, but... everyone KNOWS that paladins can't dps, or burst! :D

2h burst in PvP & Sword Spec rogues in PvE are likely the culprits... but maybe, just maybe Blizzard realized that Seal of Blood is out of control. /shrug
~Frag :whistling:

Well, they tried to put a similar change through pre-TBC, and took it back out, so I've kind of expected it to come again, once warriors getting rage from WF procs started becoming a factor again.

Edit: yeah, Conc had the same thought while I was posting this.

[Legedi]

It shouldn't affect Ret paladins much because I think only CS could proc WF that now cannot.

On the Blizzard forum Blizzard is saying that slam should still proc WF. I can live with that. Still some conflicting reports if slam and WF are working right now or not. I'll try testing it tonight for the very least.

[Tal]

But, but... everyone KNOWS that paladins can't dps, or burst! :D
~Frag :whistling:

Now that Sharanna is getting some spell damage gear and pvp gear I don't feel automatically at a disadvantage against every dps class. Those I can't burst down with judgements and holy shock I outlast.:)Except those damn warlocks and priests. Bane of my existence.