The Bridge, the Mine, the Monster Truck

[Jester]

So when you wenge about war funding, think about what goes to the men and their equipment versus ear marks for some Legislators pet project back home.

By www.sourcewatch.org's tally, the spending you were describing (at least, the bill that made it to the President's desk) was to be 124 billion total, with 96 billion earmarked for the Iraq war.

That's 28 billion or so going into domestic programs. A large chunk is earmarked for Katrina and Gulf Coast relief. The rest is for Iraq and Afghanistan, comprising about 3/4 of the spending.

Why the US government can't deal with one issue at a time, I'll never know. I guess to hide the pork, but usually they're more proud of it than ashamed, since it helps buy votes.

Not that any of it got spent, because Bush vetoed it, due to the timetable for withdrawal.

Nit: "* $100 million more than either version provided" is not a distinct expenditure, as far as I know.

-Jester

[Occhidiangela]

Has any Federal gas tax money been diverted to the war? Has any new military base been built in the US in the past 20 years? Then again, what is that "war money" being spent on? New schools in Iraq? I think we pay soldiers whether they fight or not, but maybe slightly more when they are in theater. Equipment wear and tear? I doubt we are launching million dollar cruise missiles everyday.

I guess you missed the part where the Chief of Staff of the Army, last year, testified before Congress on the 10-15 billion need to reconstitute the Army Units whose equipment has been damaged, worn, or destroyed in the Iraq fun and games. That was over and above the already scheduled equipment acquisition. It only gets worse with time.

Occhi

[kandrathe]

I guess you missed the part where the Chief of Staff of the Army, last year, testified before Congress on the 10-15 billion need to reconstitute the Army Units whose equipment has been damaged, worn, or destroyed in the Iraq fun and games. That was over and above the already scheduled equipment acquisition. It only gets worse with time.

Occhi

Not really. The question is rhetorical. I'd expect equipment that gets used to need repair. I don't have any issues with training and paying soldiers or equipping them with the best tools to do their jobs. I'd like people to think about the claims of outrageous funding, since much of these spending bills are not going into soldiers stomachs or pockets, replacing ordinance, or repairing/replacing equipment. Also, they pretend that without a war we would not have a military fighting somewhere else. I have no doubt that if we were not in Iraq, we would have stomped on other brush fires like Venezuela, Iran, or Sudan. Last year Americans spent 2 times more at Walmart than they did on all military spending.

[kandrathe]

Nit: "* $100 million more than either version provided" is not a distinct expenditure, as far as I know.

I saw that as well. I thought perhaps it was some legislators idea of giving the war effort more than they requested.

[Jester]

I have no doubt that if we were not in Iraq, we would have stomped on other brush fires like Venezuela, Iran, or Sudan.

Sudan I get.

Iran? Venezuela?

-Jester

[kandrathe]

Sudan I get. Iran? Venezuela?

Sudan would have been for humanitarian reasons. The other two are strategic and emerging national security problems. Iran would have been an impossible problem with Saddam in Iraq, however.

[Jester]

Sudan would have been for humanitarian reasons. The other two are strategic and emerging national security problems. Iran would have been an impossible problem with Saddam in Iraq, however.

Isn't there a minor issue with not having any casus belli with those nations?

-Jester

[Taem]

Not really. The question is rhetorical. I'd expect equipment that gets used to need repair. I don't have any issues with training and paying soldiers or equipping them with the best tools to do their jobs. I'd like people to think about the claims of outrageous funding, since much of these spending bills are not going into soldiers stomachs or pockets, replacing ordinance, or repairing/replacing equipment. Also, they pretend that without a war we would not have a military fighting somewhere else. I have no doubt that if we were not in Iraq, we would have stomped on other brush fires like Venezuela, Iran, or Sudan. Last year Americans spent 2 times more at Walmart than they did on all military spending.

Interesting, I never really gave that much thought. So your saying the armed forces should already have had adequate funds allocated to their cause even before the Iraq war for typical wear and tear, correct? And that the Iraq war really shouldn't have stressed the equipment anymore than America's typical fighting would, correct? Asking for so much money for a bill makes it seem, when you think about it in this light, that Americas armed forces are inadequate and cannot sustain a war anywhere at anytime without help from Congress, but I don't believe that - I'm sure equipment repair and replacement is a cost already factored into armed forces spending. So other than transportation of troops to Iraq and the feeding costs of soldiers on bases in Iraq, where is that money going anyhow, or is our armed forces really that weak and inept that they should need Congressional help for every skirmish they encounter? Kind of makes you think...

[kandrathe]

Interesting, I never really gave that much thought. So your saying the armed forces should already have had adequate funds allocated to their cause even before the Iraq war for typical wear and tear, correct? And that the Iraq war really shouldn't have stressed the equipment anymore than America's typical fighting would, correct? Asking for so much money for a bill makes it seem, when you think about it in this light, that Americas armed forces are inadequate and cannot sustain a war anywhere at anytime without help from Congress, but I don't believe that - I'm sure equipment repair and replacement is a cost already factored into armed forces spending. So other than transportation of troops to Iraq and the feeding costs of soldiers on bases in Iraq, where is that money going anyhow, or is our armed forces really that weak and inept that they should need Congressional help for every skirmish they encounter? Kind of makes you think...

It does make you wonder. My feeling is that when not in "War Mode" they keep much of their equipment in moth balls and the rest is used only minimally.

[Thecla]

And that the Iraq war really shouldn't have stressed the equipment anymore than America's typical fighting would, correct?

The Iraq war is placing a stress on miltitary equipment that is orders of magnitude beyond anything that would happen in peacetime, or in any "typical fighting", whatever that is. One example from a recent news article:

The longer Mr. Gates is in office the more the casualty toll in Iraq and Afghanistan seems to weigh on him, aides said. On a visit to an American Army base in Kuwait this month, he walked in shirt sleeves on a sweltering evening through the “boneyard,” a vast field of hundreds of mangled Humvees, Bradleys and other armored vehicles destroyed in Iraq. It left him in a somber mood, aides who were present said.

[kandrathe]

The Iraq war is placing a stress on miltitary equipment that is orders of magnitude beyond anything that would happen in peacetime, or in any "typical fighting", whatever that is. One example from a recent news article:

This one has some numbers.