Invaders !

[shoju]

I have to agree. Most of us Who are just "sport fishers" are very interested in conservation. I fish by a common principle that has been handed down through my family.

If you kill it, you eat it.

[kandrathe]

If you kill it, you eat it.

::nod:: Although, as a general rule; I don't eat anything in the order rodentia. Kill it... sometimes... Bury it... yes...

[shoju]

If you kill it, you eat it.

::nod:: Although, as a general rule; I don't eat anything in the order rodentia. Kill it... sometimes... Bury it... yes...

My great Grandfather was a hard and fast (If you kill it you eat it) type of guy.

My dad once shot a crow with a BB gun, killing it as a kid. My great-grandfather walked him out, picked it up, and said "How would you like your dinner cooked?"

And that's the abridged story of my dad eating crow.

My great-grandfather went as far as to catch snakes, and put them in his outhouse (in Ohio, in the 60's, he had neither electricity nor indoor plumbing) and let them mate so that he could release them into his garden to deal with the pests.

I wish I could have met him. He died a little more than a year before I was born. The stories about him paint him as a practical, logical, type of guy who didn't take more than he needed, didn't sell it for more than it was worth, and would bend over backwards for you.

[RiotInferno]

If you kill it, you eat it.

::nod:: Although, as a general rule; I don't eat anything in the order rodentia. Kill it... sometimes... Bury it... yes...

My great Grandfather was a hard and fast (If you kill it you eat it) type of guy.

My dad once shot a crow with a BB gun, killing it as a kid. My great-grandfather walked him out, picked it up, and said "How would you like your dinner cooked?"

And that's the abridged story of my dad eating crow.

My great-grandfather went as far as to catch snakes, and put them in his outhouse (in Ohio, in the 60's, he had neither electricity nor indoor plumbing) and let them mate so that he could release them into his garden to deal with the pests.

I wish I could have met him. He died a little more than a year before I was born. The stories about him paint him as a practical, logical, type of guy who didn't take more than he needed, didn't sell it for more than it was worth, and would bend over backwards for you.

That is why I love living in the midwest, and why it saddens me deeply to see that character trait drying up.

My father has a saying that was drilled into me at a young age: "It's the responsibility of those who can, to help out those who can't."

[eppie]

I agree. I think you'll be hard-pressed to find a true fisherman who doesn't care about conservation. There's a fight to be had with big corporations and over-fishing the oceans / major lakes. You won't find any allies if you start yelling at the little guys.

I think it is obvious I was not talking about anglers but about the floating fish factories with their 1 sq.km. nets they drag over oceans floors etc.

---

While I'm a pretty hard core libertarian pro-capitalist, ecologic damage and sustainability are an area where I lean left of the greens when it comes to protecting and preserving our ecosystems. As I often do... I was listening just yesterday on my drive about the return in Minnesota to life sustaining agriculture (we can extend that to aquaculture), and the local food movement here in the Twin Cities area. A growing number of producers and consumers are finding there is more to food, and successful agriculture than the cheapest cost, and highest yield per acre. It also needs to be tasty, and not toxic.

One sad thing about the enviroment is taht for some reason it is seen a left wing to care about it. This has to stop.

Juts include the impact on our planet in the price of goods, and you can continue with capitalism.

Capitalism as it is now is a system that will stop working, because it only works when people consume more and more. It favour having more people around and it favours there being poor and rich areas, where the poor areas are used to deplete of natural resources because the people living there have not time to protest like we do in te west because they are concnerned if they can feed their children the next day.

[kandrathe]

Just include the impact on our planet in the price of goods, and you can continue with capitalism.

I think this is as unworkable as is Carbon Trading. There will always be fudging on the value and definition of "pollution". I really believe we need to enforce a zero-sum "leave it as you found it" solution, or risk having continuous surprises of swindles at the environments (commons) expense.

Capitalism as it is now is a system that will stop working, because it only works when people consume more and more. It favour having more people around and it favours there being poor and rich areas, where the poor areas are used to deplete of natural resources because the people living there have not time to protest like we do in the west because they are concerned if they can feed their children the next day.

Don't conflate consumerism with capitalism. Capitalism works fine without population growth, and the exploitation of the environment. Observe, the environmental differences as news moves from paper to the Internet. Consider some what isolated wealthy nations with low population growth such as Switzerland (doubles every 95 years). The unrestrained excess of wanton consumerism is killing us.

[LochnarITB]

::nod:: Although, as a general rule; I don't eat anything in the order rodentia. Kill it... sometimes... Bury it... yes...

Not a hunter? Minnesota kids I knew that grew up hunting enjoys us some squirrel, yes sirree.

[kandrathe]

::nod:: Although, as a general rule; I don't eat anything in the order rodentia. Kill it... sometimes... Bury it... yes...

Not a hunter? Minnesota kids I knew that grew up hunting enjoys us some squirrel, yes sirree.

Taxidermy, yes. I became a master of the stuffed squirrel. Eating them? No. Hamburgers taste better.

[Hammerskjold]

While I'm a pretty hard core libertarian pro-capitalist, ecologic damage and sustainability are an area where I lean left of the greens when it comes to protecting and preserving our ecosystems.

This is something I find mind boggling. Not your view, I also share similar views when it comes to ecosystems aka complex things that enables us to you know, live.

But this division of left and right when it comes to something like this. It's truly a mind fuxo0r.

Maybe the scale of it is too big and we're missing the trees for the forest.

But let's just say for giggle sake, pollution is the equivalent of someone(s) pissing in the beer and cold cuts cooler during a camping trip.

The first thing I'm gonna ask is not whether or not someone is a leftist or a rightist, or how their political compass swings on the matter.

Someone(s) whether in a fit of moronicity or possibly drunk (on stupidity) has just fuxx00red our food supply. AND THE BEER!!
Maybe they were too drunk at the time, or it was too dark and they really had to go. Maybe someone paid them 20$ to do it as a dare. (Can't be anti-jobs and profits now can't we?)

Now I'm sure some wiseinheimer will say easy, let's just go to the campstore or town. We have to resupply anyway, the smokes and the ice for the beer cooler is running low.

The problem is we just needlessly wasted those food and beer ($), the campstore charges and an arm and a leg, and the town is on holiday hours.

The 'Conservatives' seems to not know what conservation is, and seems to be too focused on whether or not those 2 squirrels are homersexuals and living in sin. The 'Liberals' seems to have major problems in coming up with a coherent shopping list, and readily feints or foams in the mouth if they see a bird eating a worm. ('That's hate crime, hate crime!')

What I'm saying is the planet currently does not even have the option of going to the town for groceries. This is it for now. There is no 7-11 on the Ye Olde Lunar Greenhouse and Mining Colony.

There is no payphone or cellphone reception to call for re-supply. (Maybe the ETs sees our calls the same way we see telemarketing robocalls.) There is no midweek check or emergency pickup. This is it. We're all stuck at camp Granada.

Bickering on how someone's political compass swings does nothing IMO, -nothing- to address the problem of our cooler of food and BEER being majorly pfhaah-ked.

Bah, I'm not ranting on you or anyone here. I'm just pissed off at humans in general, maybe I should go camping. And buy a lock for my beer cooler.

[Jester]

I really believe we need to enforce a zero-sum "leave it as you found it" solution, or risk having continuous surprises of swindles at the environments (commons) expense.

Does this not run afoul of the 2nd law of thermodynamics? Or, if that's being too nitpicky, where is the line drawn? How close to zero is zero-sum, and for how many people?

-Jester

[kandrathe]

Does this not run afoul of the 2nd law of thermodynamics? Or, if that's being too nitpicky, where is the line drawn? How close to zero is zero-sum, and for how many people?

We practice it around here when we work with builders. They don't just get to do the lucrative part, and leave all the drainage ponds, roads, and utility work for the taxpayers to shoulder. They are also responsible for replacing any trees (equal board foot) they need to remove.

It would certainly apply to industry, with the only notable big offender around here being the Federal Government (40 years of open ground use of trichloroethylene degrease agents filtered into the Hillside Sand and Prairie du Chien/Jordan aquifers).