The spirit of the Age

[Jester]

The theme of V for Vendetta is to fight against oppression (even though that's not V's motive; he gives Eve the choice, after all).

From what I've heard of Zeitgeist so far, that's not even in there.

It is, just in a really warped 'you are being oppressed and don't even know about it, you foolish dupe of the powers-that-be!' kind of way.

-Jester

[kandrathe]

It is, just in a really warped 'you are being oppressed and don't even know about it, you foolish dupe of the powers-that-be!' kind of way.

-Jester

I didn't read V for Vendetta that way. It was more, people fearfully giving up their rights for security. In that case it was a biological weapon blamed on terrorists. Once the government becomes an instrument of absolute power, all dissent was brutally crushed. The Patriot Act in the US is an example where people are all too willing to sacrifice liberty for security, and I fear some people would be willing to give up much, much more. I know you don't believe this, but the right to a trial by a jury, and the right to defend oneself are probably the last vestiges of true liberty in the US.

It's not far fetched as one can look to any number of third world dictatorships as examples of how to implement that type of tyranny. In fact, Iraq under Saddam is a great example of where people just kept their opinions private in fear that their friends or family would accidentally or intentionally result in being taken away in the night ending in their horrible torture and death. Being an American, I don't quite understand the emotions evoked by the whole Guy Fawkes thing.

[Munkay]

Once you agree upon which words to read, then you can start to discuss what the words actually do mean.

First off, the issues you brought up about the language are spot on. You can also add into the mix the kind of Greek that the new testament was written in - how were words used in that context? A great Lexicon like the works of Scott and Liddel are absolutely incredible, but the same definition for a word in Homer may not mean the same thing 800 years later. Add on top of that problems with class distinction - since the use of Greek was so widespread, there was a big difference in how well educated citizens of the empire may use it, compared to that of the common folk.

But there's actually a general agreement about what words are supposed to be used. I don't have my Greek New Testament in front of me right now, but I'll have to dig it out. Before I was allowed to translate a word, we spent time talking about the text we used. A global council of classicists came together and worked on coming to a consensus of the wording and structure. On a sliding scale from a to e, each word/sentence/paragraph was declared to be either original, probably original, probably added, or severely in doubt. Now, of course these people may be incorrect, but I do believe its a credible and good starting point.

Felt it was a worthy tangent;)

Cheers,

Munk

[Jester]

I didn't read V for Vendetta that way. It was more, people fearfully giving up their rights for security. In that case it was a biological weapon blamed on terrorists. Once the government becomes an instrument of absolute power, all dissent was brutally crushed. The Patriot Act in the US is an example where people are all too willing to sacrifice liberty for security, and I fear some people would be willing to give up much, much more. I know you don't believe this, but the right to a trial by a jury, and the right to defend oneself are probably the last vestiges of true liberty in the US.

It's not far fetched as one can look to any number of third world dictatorships as examples of how to implement that type of tyranny. In fact, Iraq under Saddam is a great example of where people just kept their opinions private in fear that their friends or family would accidentally or intentionally result in being taken away in the night ending in their horrible torture and death. Being an American, I don't quite understand the emotions evoked by the whole Guy Fawkes thing.

Neither did I. I was talking about 'Zeitgeist.'

-Jester

[Kylearan]

Hi,

thanks for the link! I for one enjoyed the movie, as I love conspiracy theories (Eco's "Focault's Pendulum" is one of my favorite books!). Note that I don't believe them, but I marvel at the creativity some people have at drawing weird connections. The movie didn't have a lot of new things in it when it comes to conspiracy theories, but it presented them very well.

I don't get the role of part I however, about religion. The rest of the movie dealt with how the Gnomes of Zurich, er, I mean the international bankers slowly take over the world by creating the Fed, infiltrating the government, making the US entering WW I/II, instigating the Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq wars, secretly forging the North American Union and now making RFID chips to track everyone via satellite (I'm curious how exactly they do that?). But how is part I related to all this? Are they suggesting that the bankers have created the stars as well, as a tool to manipulate people via religion? Or is it that we all know how all bankers are Jews? Where's the link between religion and the bankers conspiracy?

I'm a bit disappointed though that they forgot to mention the fake moon landing. :angry:

-Kylearan

[Munkay]

I'm a bit disappointed though that they forgot to mention the fake moon landing. :angry:

-Kylearan

But if that's fake, where does all our cheese come from?:P

Cheers,

Munk

[Hammerskjold]

But if that's fake, where does all our cheese come from?:P

Cheers,

Munk

Well from cows, of course. Specifically, cows that has been modified via UFO abduction and experimentation. Little known fact: Cows on earth do not naturally produce milk that is edible for humans. Only through the superior genetic tweaking done by Lord Xebu-VII The Sun Eater, are we lowly earthlings able to enjoy the delicious dairy products such as milk, malted shakes, and cheese pizzas.

So cheese does come from 'out there' -and- from cows. Now we know. And knowing is half the battle!

(As for the original conspiracy thread, frankly it has nothing on the real conspiracy that is behind the 'Got Milk?' shadowy going ons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Got_Milk%3F

Look at the list of movie \ tv \celebrities that's part of this milky cabal. It's truly frightening.)

[Munkay]

Only through the superior genetic tweaking done by Lord Xebu-VII The Sun Eater, are we lowly earthlings able to enjoy the delicious dairy products such as milk, malted shakes, and cheese pizzas.

And all this time I thought Xenu was an only child :lol:

Cheers,

Munk

[kandrathe]

And all this time I thought Xenu was an only child :lol:

Cheers,

Munk

It's the cows!