The trials of freedom

[kandrathe]

Goth who walks fiancée on a leash is banned by bus driver who told him: 'No dogs allowed'

Given that she describes herself as a human pet – and is happy to walk around on a lead – Tasha Maltby is used to odd looks and even odder remarks. But nothing had prepared her for the reaction of the bus driver who allegedly told the self-styled Goth and her boyfriend: "We don't let freaks and dogs like you on." Miss Maltby and her fiance Dani Graves were so angered they have complained to the bus company of being "victimised".

I'm conflicted. Being the son of a woman who had to convince her husband (my father) to allow her to work outside the home, I truly want women to be free. I've tried, to the best of my abilities, to help grow and mentor women in my profession which is male dominated. As a husband, I've tried to enable my wife to pursue her dreams and be supportive of her career, or being a stay at home mother as she chooses. Freedom is to have the ability to get all scuzzy on the weekend, or all dolled up to go out as you feel like it. Freedom is the ability to express yourself as you feel, so long as you don't violate the common laws of the land.

But, I must admit that I have trouble sometimes accepting it when women seek or accept a role of subjugation. Such as a women who pursues a career in prostitution, which when forced is the ultimate humiliation, and when embraced by the woman might perhaps be the ultimate expression of personal power.

In this particular case, with the dog walking goths, I'm on their side and think they are just looking for the reaction they got. Now that they get it, they are shocked. They are not breaking any laws, so people should just ignore them. I'm not sure how I would explain it to my 5 and 7 year old, but then that would be my parenting problem not theirs. I remember when my dad used to drive with the family through downtown past the hookers, my mom used to tell us to cover our eyes until she told us we could look again.

"It is definitely discrimination, almost like a hate crime," 19-year-old Miss Maltby said yesterday. The music technology student had this defence of her lifestyle. "I am a pet, I generally act animal like and I lead a really easy life," she said. "I don't cook or clean and I don't go anywhere without Dani. It might seem strange but it makes us both happy. It's my culture and my choice. It isn't hurting anyone."

Ok, hate crime is a bit strong. Over here a hate crime is chaining someone to a pickup truck bumper and driving down a dirt road until the chain drags free. Usually, death or felony violence is involved. However, as political correctness marches on, soon a dirty look will be classified as a hate crime. When she says she acts like an animal... Nevermind. Oh, to be young, in art school, in love, and living on public assistance...

[Munkay]

So that makes it... bestiality?

Where's Mike Huckabee when you need him :P

Cheers,

Munk

[Artega]

They shouldn't be barred from the use of the bus simply because the driver disagrees with their lifestyle choices.

[[wcip]Angel]

Although I don't approve of this chauvinist lifestyle, and even though I smirked while reading about the driver's response, I have to disagree in principle to his decision. Pragmatically speaking, the rule against pets on vehicles must surely exist to prevent the interior from being stained by an animal's natural release. Although the female in question did relegate herself to the position of 'pet' herself, she is also a person, and must thus be classified as one. Although she assumes the subservient role of the pet to her partner, I doubt she adopts the same hygienic habits... Therefore the rules ought not apply.

[Hammerskjold]

>Ok, hate crime is a bit strong. Over here a hate crime is chaining someone to a pickup truck bumper and driving down a dirt road until the chain drags free. Usually, death or felony violence is involved. However, as political correctness marches on, soon a dirty look will be classified as a hate crime. When she says she acts like an animal... Nevermind. Oh, to be young, in art school, in love, and living on public assistance...


I'm somewhat interested what time this occured, if it was a crowded bus or not. My main concern is one of practicality. If she's goin doggy style, that can take up the space of two people. Now, before the argument that large people, people with strollers or large bags also falls into that kind of category, I have to say IMO, it really does not.

I don't see her as a Rosa Parks. I do see someone who might not be familiar with the concept of shared public space.

If she insists on being treated like a dog in this particular case, then I say apply it as she wishes. Charge her 'owner', unless he can prove he needs her as a seeing eye dog or similar. Also check to see if she has all the proper shots, leash, and most importantly spayed or neutered.

When I see dog poop in a dog free park, I don't blame the dog. I blame the idiot owner.

Same in this case. What she says doesn't count, not because of her gender, but because dogs are not fluent in human language and human rules.

But what do I know, I'm probably a specist. One of those evil Homo Sapien Supremacists.

edited add: After reading the article again, I still could not find any mention if she was walking on 2 legs, or on 4. If she was on 2, it's one thing, the leash might get it in the way but it wouldn't be too bad. Based on practicality alone.

If she was on 4's, then to me the driver has more leg to stand on, pardon the expression.

Still, I get the feeling that these two lovebirds are somewhat naive. Or get their ideas and 'rebel' uniform from the local mall.

[Nystul]

Oh, to be young, in art school, in love, and living on public assistance...

That pretty much sums it up, I think. Why do the creative youth counter-cultures always look so collectively homogeneous compared to the general public? Or maybe they are actually not, and it is only the ones who want the "label" that look identical.

But anyways, the bus driver has to be canned.

[Mithrandir]

They shouldn't be barred from the use of the bus simply because the driver disagrees with their lifestyle choices.

Bingo.

Although on a sheer amusement level, I do think it is sort of funny for the bus driver to basically say "You wanna be a dog? Okay, I'll treat you like a dog."

[Occhidiangela]

Goth who walks fiancée on a leash is banned by bus driver who told him: 'No dogs allowed'

I'm conflicted. Being the son of a woman who had to convince her husband (my father) to allow her to work outside the home, I truly want women to be free. I've tried, to the best of my abilities, to help grow and mentor women in my profession which is male dominated. As a husband, I've tried to enable my wife to pursue her dreams and be supportive of her career, or being a stay at home mother as she chooses. Freedom is to have the ability to get all scuzzy on the weekend, or all dolled up to go out as you feel like it. Freedom is the ability to express yourself as you feel, so long as you don't violate the common laws of the land.

But, I must admit that I have trouble sometimes accepting it when women seek or accept a role of subjugation. Such as a women who pursues a career in prostitution, which when forced is the ultimate humiliation, and when embraced by the woman might perhaps be the ultimate expression of personal power.

In this particular case, with the dog walking goths, I'm on their side and think they are just looking for the reaction they got. Now that they get it, they are shocked. They are not breaking any laws, so people should just ignore them. I'm not sure how I would explain it to my 5 and 7 year old, but then that would be my parenting problem not theirs. I remember when my dad used to drive with the family through downtown past the hookers, my mom used to tell us to cover our eyes until she told us we could look again.

I agree with the bus driver on how to treat attention whores.

To the two twits involved

Get A Room.

Occhi

[Swiss Mercenary]

To the two twits involved

Get A Room.

Occhi

Bingo. They are bringing everyone else in as participants in bedroom play. Public indecency is a bit too harsh, but attention whore is a good description.

[Jester]

They were fully clothed, and while the chain was a little on the weird side, that's hardly the most sexual thing that walks down the street on the average day.

If that's at a level we're willing to charge with indecency, then there is a *lot* of cracking down to do. If it's just attention whoring, that's not actually against the law in most democracies.

-Jester

[Sir_Die_alot]

They were fully clothed, and while the chain was a little on the weird side, that's hardly the most sexual thing that walks down the street on the average day.

If that's at a level we're willing to charge with indecency, then there is a *lot* of cracking down to do. If it's just attention whoring, that's not actually against the law in most democracies.

-Jester

From what little detail there is this looks like a private bus company and not a public one. Again in most democracies you can choose who you wish to do business with. :whistling:

[eppie]

I can't find chose one of the two parties and blame them....to me they are both acting weird but as long as they don't hurt anybody with it.....let them go ahead.

Anyway....
to the bus driver I would say; 'sad peasant, get a life' and to the goths I would say; 'sad peasants, get a life'.

[LemmingofGlory]

In this particular case, with the dog walking goths, I'm on their side and think they are just looking for the reaction they got. Now that they get it, they are shocked. They are not breaking any laws, so people should just ignore them. I'm not sure how I would explain it to my 5 and 7 year old, but then that would be my parenting problem not theirs. I remember when my dad used to drive with the family through downtown past the hookers, my mom used to tell us to cover our eyes until she told us we could look again.

First of all, someone needs to make these two goth kiddies re-watch "The Matrix" for a refresher on what "Cool" looks like. They're failing at it. They don't have a damn pair of shades between them.

I really think they're just a couple of kids who like to dress like all the other 'nonconforimist' goth kids who all shop at the same store with the exception that they like to add overt and unnecessary BDSM overtones to their costumes. If they weren't using the leash, it would've just looked like an effeminate guy who doesn't know how to dress himself and his girlfriend who doesn't know what bra size she is. It's still tacky, but it's much lower on the TMI scale.

I don't think the bus driver trampled on their civil rights. He just acted like a douchebag and failed at his job. Let the BDSM twins sort out the situation with the bus driver's employer.

-Lem

[Jester]

From what little detail there is this looks like a private bus company and not a public one. Again in most democracies you can choose who you wish to do business with. :whistling:

Hm. Not sure where the law falls here, but can I really post a "No niggers allowed!" sign on my door? After all, my business, I get to choose who to let in and who to keep out...

-Jester

[kandrathe]

Hm. Not sure where the law falls here, but can I really post a "No niggers allowed!" sign on my door? After all, my business, I get to choose who to let in and who to keep out...

-Jester

Did you just use the "N" word? :)

I wonder what the publicly acceptable BDSM limit is? Shackles? That weird leather head gear with the zipper mouth I saw in Pulp Fiction? How about a whip and the guy yelling, "Get on the bus b_tch!"? >Crack<

[Monkey]

Did you just use the "N" word? :)

I wonder what the publicly acceptable BDSM limit is? Shackles? That weird leather head gear with the zipper mouth I saw in Pulp Fiction? How about a whip and the guy yelling, "Get on the bus b_tch!"? >Crack<

As a veteran reader of Savage Love, I feel fully qualified to answer your question.

Because you can't get the consent of everyone in a public space, social context (what everyone consents to by entering that space) is the determining factor. Lots of women and men choose to be (or keep) submissives/slaves/pets. One of your friends or co-workers might be eating out of a dog bowl right now, in fact;). But you'll never hear about it because they keep their behavior in line with the social context.

For example:
--They could go out to dinner where the top decides what the bottom will eat. The top may not bring a dog bowl and make the bottom eat off the floor.
--Or, they could go to a BDSM club / dungeon and use a whip or a flogger on the bottom. They can't do anything that violates the rules of the club, such as "No blood play,"

So, wearing the gimp's hood on the bus is highly questionable, shackles is out of the question, and cracking a whip and shouting would be WAY over the line. Halloween, of course, changes the social norms and some of this stuff becomes more acceptable.

As for these kids in Britain, it's the driver who went over the line. He didn't just deadpan, "We don't allow pets over 20lbs on the bus," (which would have been really funny), he's repeatedly going after these kids, even when he's off duty. He's allegedly become violent as well. The bus company is there to make money and provide a public service. The driver needs to spend less time and energy on keeping people off his bus, period. There's clearly a quick link on that leash--Make 'em disconnect it if that's the problem and get on with your day.

[Nystul]

Public and private are not exactly absolutes. Businesses and private organizations tend to fall someplace in between in reality. Obviously "private" businesses in the U.S. must still abide by government regulation (and in the U.K. probably even more so) and do not have free license to racially discriminate. On the other hand, a restaurant can require you to wear a tie, or even White Tie, which is a much closer comparison to the current situation.

Regardless of what the government could do, the bus company is not going to want to lose customers. The bus driver is clearly driving customers away. So unless the presence of goth kids causes people in this community to stop riding the bus, he's probably been canned or suspended by now.

[Sir_Die_alot]

Hm. Not sure where the law falls here, but can I really post a "No niggers allowed!" sign on my door? After all, my business, I get to choose who to let in and who to keep out...

-Jester

I was thinking more along the lines of "No shoes no shirt no service."B)

[Occhidiangela]

First of all, someone needs to make these two goth kiddies re-watch "The Matrix" for a refresher on what "Cool" looks like. They're failing at it. They don't have a damn pair of shades between them.

I really think they're just a couple of kids who like to dress like all the other 'nonconforimist' goth kids who all shop at the same store with the exception that they like to add overt and unnecessary BDSM overtones to their costumes. If they weren't using the leash, it would've just looked like an effeminate guy who doesn't know how to dress himself and his girlfriend who doesn't know what bra size she is. It's still tacky, but it's much lower on the TMI scale.

I don't think the bus driver trampled on their civil rights. He just acted like a douchebag and failed at his job. Let the BDSM twins sort out the situation with the bus driver's employer.

-Lem

How did the bus driver fail to safely drive the bus on his route?

Other than that, I find your analysis very astute, and the proper forum for redress precisely as you suggest.

Occhi