May News/Discussions

[Mirajj]

May 2 News
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Bolty's back with a Priest Quiz this time. Maybe he'll work some up for some other classes...

I am often asked "Is being a hunter that hard? It's just ezmode levelling, autoshotlolAFK., right?" Well...yes and no. It's easy to be bad hunter. They are one of the, if not the most maligned class out there. If you hang around with good hunters, you'll hear them griping about having to weave shots, and how it hurts their dps if they don't/can't/aren't good at it. Here is a nice little article to help explain what it is they are trying to do. It's also a good read for any hunter, as any better grasp of our mechanics is a better thing.

Cameron Sorden comes up with a very nice article summarizing some of the issues involved with Guild Hopping. Why folks do it, what should be done about it. Should anything be done about it. There are some...unique suggestions (Any items acquired in a raid are removed from your toon on deguilding and putting it (or the gold equivalent, I imagine) in the Guild Bank. It's an interesting read, to be sure.

[Swiss Mercenary]

I am often asked "Is being a hunter that hard? It's just ezmode levelling, autoshotlolAFK., right?" Well...yes and no. It's easy to be bad hunter. They are one of the, if not the most maligned class out there. If you hang around with good hunters, you'll hear them griping about having to weave shots, and how it hurts their dps if they don't/can't/aren't good at it. Here is a nice little article to help explain what it is they are trying to do. It's also a good read for any hunter, as any better grasp of our mechanics is a better thing.

Is there anything to a BM hunter aside from not clipping those autoshots? Because I've been told several times by my guild's best hunter that he's just sitting there, tapping his Steady Shot + Kill Command macro all fight.

[Mirajj]

Is there anything to a BM hunter aside from not clipping those autoshots? Because I've been told several times by my guild's best hunter that he's just sitting there, tapping his Steady Shot + Kill Command macro all fight.

Yes and no. Due to "the macro" there is a lot of the work and skill taken out of a hunter. A BM hunter can "sit there and macro mash" all fight and still do very well. But you can still tell the ones who weave their shots manually, and know what they are doing. Even BM hunters benefit from shot weaving with a higher dps, but it's not part of "the macro" so most don't bother.

[Mirajj]

May 6th News
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M'uru is down.

The Stormrage Lurkers and Crew have put Vashj to rest.

Here is an interesting article on the various uses of a Paladin's Seals and Blessings.

A topic of a more personal nature that I've been getting a first hand education in, is that of Game/Time Management. Your boss is breathing down your neck, you are staying late at work. The kids want supper, your wife wants a night with you...and you have a raid in 10 minutes. It can get nuts. We've all heard stories or may even know those who have ruined careers due to this game. Those who have thrown away amazing GPA's or scholarships. How far do you go? How far can you go? Does your family remember you? Still have a girlfriend? Adjusted (or tried to) your work around your raiding/playing?

[NiteFox]

Is there anything to a BM hunter aside from not clipping those autoshots? Because I've been told several times by my guild's best hunter that he's just sitting there, tapping his Steady Shot + Kill Command macro all fight.

Pray to the Earth Mother that Kill Command doesn't stick Auto Shot.

...

My prayers are unanswered. Sniff.

[Swiss Mercenary]

Cameron Sorden comes up with a very nice article summarizing some of the issues involved with Guild Hopping. Why folks do it, what should be done about it. Should anything be done about it. There are some...unique suggestions (Any items acquired in a raid are removed from your toon on deguilding and putting it (or the gold equivalent, I imagine) in the Guild Bank. It's an interesting read, to be sure.

That leaves way too much power in the hands of the guild master. I am not sure if it has occured to the author of the article that was quoted in that article that some people who leave their guilds actually contributed to guild progress, rather then received a free ride.

The way you can combat that, is typically a trial period. Let recruits get last dibs on anything that drops, for the first month they are in the guild. That way, the guild doesn't lose anything if they happen to leave after their second epic.

What if they leave three months in? Well, if you kept them around for three months, then they were either contributing to progression, or they were bad, but you really really needed the class they were playing.

Either way, without them, you wouldn't have been raiding.

At one point, when working on SSC/TK my guild was short a few players... So it merged with a different guild. Some of the new people were causing problems to no end. A few weeks later, they collectively /ragegquit in the middle of a raid, after their rogue was called out on raiding with a 400 dps shadowstep spec.

When they left, we lost a week's worth of loot, a pretty good healer, several mediocre DPS, and a whole lot of baggage. Did we need the gear they took? Yes.

Did it set us back a week in progression? No.

At this point, tier 5 can be cleared in a Kara and badge-geared raid. Good players are far more important then who has what gear, with the possible exception of the main tank (Who has to be geared, and good).

As for the article that you linked, the author skirts around, mentioning, but not focusing on a key aspect of WoW raids.

Loot isn't fair. The sooner people realise that, the less drama it will cause.

In my guild, we have a DKP system. There are three types of bids: 100% of item value, 50% of item value, and 25% of item value.

Speaking of fairness, in my guild, there are typically 4 hunters, an enhancement shaman, 3 rogues, and 2 feral druids competing for leather/mail upgrades.

In the meantime, we only have 1 prot warrior, who sometimes competes with our 1 prot paladin. Regardless of their DKP standing, any non-set item they want, they receieve as soon as it drops. They realise that, and while they could theoretically bid 25% on everything, they bid 100%, and very rarely, 50% (Doing otherwise would be an attack against the integrity of the system, and our GM (The prot warrior) has zero tolerance for it.

In the meantime, the rogues, hunters, shaman, and fury warrior fight over their loot tables. Viciously. Well, not so much the rogues, who aren't bidding on anything, as they are awaiting their Warglaives (which, if they keep at it, will probably be free rolled out among the melees). :rolleyes:

(And DKP isn't the source of drama... A good system prevents it. My guild has tried doing free rolls, loot council, and DKP, and there have not been any issues since we've switched to the latter - even though we started over twice times on different servers.)

[kandrathe]

May 2 News
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Cameron Sorden comes up with a very nice article...

The part that was most interesting was the concepts exploring group motivation, which is what I find most lacking in most MMORPG's. So, a better job of guaranteeing a payoff for dedicated work is one good idea, that "armor tokens" seem to address. Of course, dropping that super hard boss for a pseudo item seems a bit abstract and reality breaking. Then again, having the reward always be loot is another myopia of these games. The ultimate reward is actually character improvement, and subsequent experiences in increasingly difficult encounters should improve your character on their own merits and not depend on loot to supply progression alone. Hence, the "I can't do X until Y drops for me." problem. I think it would be worthwhile for game designers to go back to traditional RPG's and add in more concepts that made those games playable for decades.

I believe it comes down to building a game more heavily based on experience really, and building in a system that allows characters to choose talents, skills and improvements based on experience, rather than depending on the PRNG and finding loot to do it. I mean examine your WOW characters and see how much of even your base attributes are derived from gear, rather than innate talent. Strip anyone of our characters of their gear and they are common house mums, and gardeners.

[Concillian]

Here is an interesting article on the various uses of a Paladin's Seals and Blessings.

Blessing of Wisdom is the mana user counterpart to Blessing of Might? I don't think so. Kings > Wisdom for well geared Druids and Priests since the 2.4 mana regen change, especially since it gives stam too. Wisdom is a last option, only if there's a spare pally type thing. Kings should be top priority for healing priests and druids.

It's unfortunate that pallies buffing jobs are so complex. Priests have it a little rough with 3 castable (and stackable) buffs. But pallies have to keep track of so many options and everyone wants something different. Thank goodness for UI mods.

[Mordekhuul]

It's unfortunate that pallies buffing jobs are so complex. Priests have it a little rough with 3 castable (and stackable) buffs. But pallies have to keep track of so many options and everyone wants something different. Thank goodness for UI mods.

A new pally buff mod has helped us a lot, lately. ZOMGBuffs, despite the horrible name, has a vastly improved blessing manager window than what PallyPower offered, and actually works for assigning buffs for more than just paladins.

At a glance I can see who is missing fort, intellect, buffs from any paladin (even 10m versions assinged to other paladins), etc. It also supports templates and will auto-generate buff assignments for the paladins in a raid based on your pre-configured preferences (you tell it first priority on tank warriors is kings, followed by light, followed by might, and it assigns in that order until it runs out of paladins).

It will even figure out whether a warrior or other class is tank, dps, etc, based on their talent spec (and is generally right).

Downside is it has a few bugs that come up here and there, but the author is active and works through them quickly.

I don't know about you guys, but we find ourselves running between 3 and up to 5 paladins lately, so better buff management has been nice, hence my long sales pitch for the mod.

The fact that it also handles self-buffs and keeps my ret aura (or whichever aura I tell it to keep up) and righteous fury up for me is just a personal bonus for me, the tank that often forgets to put RF back up after a wipe (sigh).

[Taelas]

Seeing as everyone can use Kings, I actually agree that BoW is the mana-equivalent of BoM.

You're right that Kings is better than Wisdom for well-geared druids and priests, but there are two other healing classes in the game, both of whom have the exact opposite priority. Mages are ambivalent but probably prefer Wisdom, Warlocks prefer Kings. Hunters as well, I imagine.

The priority list is different for each class/spec combination, and even depends on gear. Assuming that you bring three paladins (and why wouldn't you?), here's how I'd rank them:

Druids:
-Healing: Kings, Salvation, Wisdom
-Spell DPS: Salvation, Kings, Wisdom
-Phys DPS: Salvation, Kings, Might
-Tanking: Kings, Light, Might
Hunters: Kings, Wisdom, Salvation
Mages: Salvation, Wisdom, Kings
Paladins:
-Healing: Wisdom, Kings, Salvation
-Tanking: Wisdom, Kings, Sanctuary
-DPS: Salvation, Kings, Wisdom
Priests:
-Healing: Kings, Salvation, Wisdom
-DPS: Salvation, Kings, Wisdom
Shaman:
-Healing: Wisdom, Kings, Salvation
-Spell DPS: Salvation, Wisdom, Kings
-Phys DPS: Salvation, Kings, Wisdom
Warlocks: Salvation, Kings, Wisdom
Warriors:
-DPS: Salvation, Might, Kings
-Tanking: Kings, Light, Sanctuary

[Kevin]

Hunters: Kings, Wisdom, Salvation

I'm guessing you don't play a hunter much. Since BoM gives you ranged AP now, assuming mana isn't an issue for that fight (and that depends on group set-up and raid set-up as well). The order is might, kings, wisdom, salv at least for me. Though if the raid has 10 physical DPS, my survival hunter actually has enough agi to make kings better now, not for me personally, but for the raid as a whole. :)

But as Conc said it gets even more fun with stuff like that too.

[LochnarITB]

Mages: Salvation, Wisdom, Kings

Salvation, Kings, Wisdom

Kings buffs both mana and health pools. A dead mage does zero DPS and it is easier for us to recover mana than heal ourselves effectively.

[Taelas]

I'm guessing you don't play a hunter much.

Not at all, no -- and I wasn't sure BoM did give RAP.

Lochnar, I don't exactly disagree, but I wouldn't prioritize the stamina boost that highly. Frankly, as a mage, I'd probably be mostly ambivalent about whether I got Kings or Wisdom -- I'd be more concerned about getting Salvation. The mana boost from Kings isn't that fantastic either; as soon as you're below maximum mana, it doesn't matter all that much.

[Concillian]

The fact that it also handles self-buffs and keeps my ret aura (or whichever aura I tell it to keep up) and righteous fury up for me is just a personal bonus for me, the tank that often forgets to put RF back up after a wipe (sigh).

MORDE!

START COLLECTING SHARDS ON TRASH!

[Mordekhuul]

MORDE!

START COLLECTING SHARDS ON TRASH!

Ha ha ha. Now that I think about it, maybe moving a distractable raid leader from a simple DPS spot to a prot pally tank wasn't the greatest move of all time =)

[Skandranon]

Lochnar, I don't exactly disagree, but I wouldn't prioritize the stamina boost that highly. Frankly, as a mage, I'd probably be mostly ambivalent about whether I got Kings or Wisdom -- I'd be more concerned about getting Salvation. The mana boost from Kings isn't that fantastic either; as soon as you're below maximum mana, it doesn't matter all that much.

The priority is entirely per-encounter, and King is basically the choice just for the stamina boost. I agree that Kings has very minimal impact on most mages' mana pools/fight endurance. But don't underrate an extra 700-1000 hit points; I've had to be healed up from less than that before.

[Swiss Mercenary]

I'm guessing you don't play a hunter much. Since BoM gives you ranged AP now, assuming mana isn't an issue for that fight (and that depends on group set-up and raid set-up as well). The order is might, kings, wisdom, salv at least for me. Though if the raid has 10 physical DPS, my survival hunter actually has enough agi to make kings better now, not for me personally, but for the raid as a whole. :)

Our hunters want Kings, Wisdom, Might... Then again, they are hitting 1400-1800 dps, so that shifts might a bit off the table.

Of course, none of them are willing to sacrifice Might or Wisdom for Salvation - even after they pull Gorefiend off the tank because, uh, Feign Death bugged on them. Yay for wipes at 1% :whistling:.

[Concillian]

The priority is entirely per-encounter, and King is basically the choice just for the stamina boost. I agree that Kings has very minimal impact on most mages' mana pools/fight endurance. But don't underrate an extra 700-1000 hit points; I've had to be healed up from less than that before.

Speaking as a healer in T6 instances, I think some DPSers have a supreme under-estimation on the value of Stamina / HP.

I personally raid under the "10k buffed or bust" rule... as a priest... one of the lowest natural HP classes. With the mana regen change, I'm considering bumping it up to 11k through stam gems instead of regen gems. The benefit of some stamina margin is HUGE in my book. It does, of course, need to be evaluated on an encounter-by-encounter basis, but my personal valuation of stamina has dramatically increased as I experience things from the healing side. 500 health can make a very large difference.

Most classes mana options have been dramatically buffed over the abilities as they were when the content was designed. I honestly feel that in most cases Kings > wisdom for anyone under 10k health.

[Kevin]

Our hunters want Kings, Wisdom, Might... Then again, they are hitting 1400-1800 dps, so that shifts might a bit off the table.

Of course, none of them are willing to sacrifice Might or Wisdom for Salvation - even after they pull Gorefiend off the tank because, uh, Feign Death bugged on them. Yay for wipes at 1% :whistling:.

Yeah the equation shifts some. But might is 220 or 242 RAP depending on if it is improved or not. 1 agi = 1 AP and 0.552 crit. So generally you need to be running about 1K agility for kings to give you more bang for the buck on pure damage. Since that gets you 100 AP and about 5% more crit. Depending on gear it's 300 - 700 more mana, which is a couple more shots before running dry so it helps there as well. But then again it matters if wisdom is being judged, if you have an SP or not, etc. But yeah, like I said I'm even shifting to kings (though I'm survival) and I don't have a single piece of T5 on my hunter yet.

[Swiss Mercenary]

Yeah the equation shifts some. But might is 220 or 242 RAP depending on if it is improved or not. 1 agi = 1 AP and 0.552 crit. So generally you need to be running about 1K agility for kings to give you more bang for the buck on pure damage. Since that gets you 100 AP and about 5% more crit.

Our Survival hunter is above 1K Agi, but not our BM ones.

Even with 800 AGI, or less, the crit bonus results in a lot of damage - and more procs of Go For The Eyes.