Naples, home of free speech... um, yeah

[Tris]

Having witnessed the community response to some demonstrators here in Naples, I have to ask some questions.

1) Fred Phelps, the baptist preacher, can preach hate of America, that god is condemning America, etc. He even has webpages dedicated to talking about how gos hates American, and how he hopes that god will destroy the U.S. Question, if an islamic puts up a webpage dedicated to talking about how allah, and his agents, will cause the destruction of the U.S., isn't he considered a terrorist? They are both preaching for and advocating the destruction of America.

2) If pro-troop rallyers say they're demonstrating in support of keeping our people alive, then why do they demonstrate in favor of an situations where our people are dying?

3) Is there really anything wrong with a demonstration demanding that the mandates of American law be applied? There was a protest here calling for the following of the U.S. Sup. Crt.'s decision regarding habeas actions for detainees. The county sheriff's office appeared and well, that was the end of that.

4) I've often wondered if hate mongers, fear mongers, etc. have ever considered the possibility that eventually somebody will take their position farther. And, that once that person takes the position further, suddenly the originator has a problem.

5) I wonder what would happen if one day a lightning bolt set fire to Fred's church?

[--Pete]

Hi,

1) Fred Phelps . . . has webpages dedicated to talking about . . . how he hopes that god will destroy the U.S.

. . . if an islamic puts up a webpage dedicated to talking about how allah, and his agents, will cause the destruction of the U.S., isn't he considered a terrorist?

The 'and his agents' makes all the difference. As long as it's left in god's hands, it is religious speech and protected as such. Once it crosses the line to human agents, then it becomes activity, and may or may not be protected depending on what it specifically is. Prayer meetings, rallies, etc., are OK. Shootings and bombings are not.

Of course, I reserve the right to use a Louisville slugger when discussing patriotism with those jackasses. But only, as the old joke goes, to get their attention.

2) If pro-troop rallyers say they're demonstrating in support of keeping our people alive, then why do they demonstrate in favor of an situations where our people are dying?

Because they supported the war when it started, and, like Shrub, are too infantile to admit they made a mistake. It must be terrible to have one's balls held on by silly putty, but about half the nation suffers from that defect.

3) Is there really anything wrong with a demonstration demanding that the mandates of American law be applied? There was a protest here calling for the following of the U.S. Sup. Crt.'s decision regarding habeas actions for detainees. The county sheriff's office appeared and well, that was the end of that.

You don't give enough details. Where was the demonstration and how were they demonstrating? ". . . the right of the people peaceably to assemble . . ." has been interpreted by the courts to include the need to get permits if the demonstration is on public land. However, given the scarlet necks of the Florida cops I've known, I'd rather depend on the second than on the first amendment to get justice there.

4) I've often wondered if hate mongers, fear mongers, etc. have ever considered the possibility that eventually somebody will take their position farther. And, that once that person takes the position further, suddenly the originator has a problem.

I have no idea what you mean by this.

5) I wonder what would happen if one day a lightning bolt set fire to Fred's church?

The fire department would put it out. Oh, and ignorant, superstitious people might even take it as an omen. But of what?

--Pete

[Vandiablo]

1) Fred Phelps, the baptist preacher, can preach hate of America, that god is condemning America, etc. He even has webpages dedicated to talking about how gos hates American, and how he hopes that god will destroy the U.S. Question, if an islamic puts up a webpage dedicated to talking about how allah, and his agents, will cause the destruction of the U.S., isn't he considered a terrorist? They are both preaching for and advocating the destruction of America.

Expressing one's belief that divine powers will destroy America is free speech.

Saying that "agents" will help is also free speech.

Recruiting others to join you in a group with these beliefs is freedom of religion.

Recruiting the destructive "agents" is a different story.

But that's not even necessarily terrorism. A terrorist will target civilians in violent surprise attacks.

Of course the term "terrorist" has had its definition expanding lately.

[Occhidiangela]

Of course the term "terrorist" has had its definition expanding lately.

Funny, it had its definition finally understood, at long last, which was gratifying to those of us who had that political/military problem to deal with for twenty years or so. More people finally got it, but it took Pete's baseball bad, raised to a few powers, in lower Manhattan to get the clue juice flowing.

As to Phelps: I participated in an anti Phelps demonstration a while back thanks to his group getting a permit to protest the memorial services of some servicemen I cared about.

The cowardly piece of manure, and his scumbags, never showed. About 2000 bikers, citizens, veterans and general all around patriots showed, however, with a lot of flags, t-shirts, and "Fred, click your heels and go back to Kansas" signs. (Some of the less couth signs I'll not mention here.)

There's a special place in Hell for false prophets, and I think Fred's is already reserved.

Occhi

[Mordekhuul]

One of my WoW guildies lives in Chicago. A group associated with Phelp's church was protesting a funeral near his house. He took his bullhorn down the street and stood next to the ring leader. Whenever the guy started to speak, he hit the siren on his bullhorn.

Free speech vs. Free speech with a siren?

The police politely asked for his bullhorn and asked him to go home. I believe he got the bullhorn back later.

[--Pete]

Hi,

One of my WoW guildies lives in Chicago.

if you ever see him in person, buy him a beer from me.:)

--Pete