So, how old *are* the Chinese gymnasts?`

[Tris]

Chinese newspapers had reported ages of 13 -14 for He or whatever her name is. I find it interesting that such reports were either removed or "corrected." By the time this Olympics is over, I don't see any validity at all to the games. Same crap, different arena.

[--Pete]

Hi,

Chinese newspapers had reported ages of 13 -14 for He or whatever her name is. I find it interesting that such reports were either removed or "corrected." By the time this Olympics is over, I don't see any validity at all to the games. Same crap, different arena.

Concentrate on the events and the athletes. Ignore the remaining bull#$%&. That is, if you can given the media crap that passes for coverage.

[added in edit] I watched some of the men's gymnastics competition last night and remembered what this is all supposedly about. It's about people who devote years to becoming something just a little bit better than human. That the media retards and the political scum can't understand that and try to bring it down to their levels is a reflection on them, not on the games.

--Pete

[ShadowHM]

I watched some of the men's gymnastics competition last night and remembered what this is all supposedly about. It's about people who devote years to becoming something just a little bit better than human.

Agreed!

We can (and do) quibble 'til the cows come home on any other aspect of the Games. :lol:

But in the the end, it is about individuals who work endlessly to achieve things that the rest of us can only gape in wonderment at, as we watch and admire.

[Tris]

Hi,
Concentrate on the events and the athletes. Ignore the remaining bull#$%&. That is, if you can given the media crap that passes for coverage.

[added in edit] I watched some of the men's gymnastics competition last night and remembered what this is all supposedly about. It's about people who devote years to becoming something just a little bit better than human. That the media retards and the political scum can't understand that and try to bring it down to their levels is a reflection on them, not on the games.

--Pete

And how many were aided by "the cream" and "the clear" or EPO, or any host of other fun things? How many medals this year will get stripped later once people's consiences finallys tart working on them, and they finally admit that they've been taking various and assorted performance enhancers?

[Mordekhuul]

And how many were aided by "the cream" and "the clear" or EPO, or any host of other fun things? How many medals this year will get stripped later once people's consiences finallys tart working on them, and they finally admit that they've been taking various and assorted performance enhancers?

I don't know. How many were stripped in previous (recent) Olympics after the fact? What is your fear/dislike based on?

[Tris]

I don't know. How many were stripped in previous (recent) Olympics after the fact? What is your fear/dislike based on?

No fear, disdain. People like Marion Jones, yeah, there's a reason she had such great performances. It came at the end of a needle, or through a little pill, or as something slathered on her skin.

[--Pete]

Hi,

No fear, disdain. People like Marion Jones, yeah, there's a reason she had such great performances. It came at the end of a needle, or through a little pill, or as something slathered on her skin.

Yep. So because some go that route, all should be banned.

You know, they're all humans. So let's just exterminate the human race since it isn't perfect. Want to volunteer to be first? Or are you perfect?

[addendum] Get a new TV, one that features an On/Off capability and channel changing electronics. That way you will not be forced to watch those Olympics that seem to distress you so much.

--Pete

[Chesspiece_face]

Chinese newspapers had reported ages of 13 -14 for He or whatever her name is. I find it interesting that such reports were either removed or "corrected." By the time this Olympics is over, I don't see any validity at all to the games. Same crap, different arena.

This whole "contraversy" is just an epic failure on the part of the media. They have the opportunity to actually inform and educate their viewers and instead at every opportunity they just turn to tabloidism and insinuations.

Is it possible that china has created fraudulant ages for these girls? sure. but it is equally possible that these girls are in fact of legal age. To actually talk about these gymnists, however, the news sources would have to talk about how the success of any of these gymnists is based on their body types and when they achieve menarche. Because the transistion to menarche is based on % body fat gymnists tend to achieve menarche much later than the general population. Given genetics and the fact that these chinese girls are many times taken as low as age 3 to work in these programs it is entirely within reason that these girls biological advancement to menarche could be pushed back to age 15 or more.

Of course why would we want to actually inform people or educate them about biology when we can intimate and use inflammatory journalism.

[Tris]

This whole "contraversy" is just an epic failure on the part of the media. They have the opportunity to actually inform and educate their viewers and instead at every opportunity they just turn to tabloidism and insinuations.

Is it possible that china has created fraudulant ages for these girls? sure. but it is equally possible that these girls are in fact of legal age. To actually talk about these gymnists, however, the news sources would have to talk about how the success of any of these gymnists is based on their body types and when they achieve menarche. Because the transistion to menarche is based on % body fat gymnists tend to achieve menarche much later than the general population. Given genetics and the fact that these chinese girls are many times taken as low as age 3 to work in these programs it is entirely within reason that these girls biological advancement to menarche could be pushed back to age 15 or more.

Of course why would we want to actually inform people or educate them about biology when we can intimate and use inflammatory journalism.

So, you're saying that if it is true, and not saying that it is, it shouldn't be reported as the fraud that it is?

[Tris]

Hi,
Yep. So because some go that route, all should be banned.

You know, they're all humans. So let's just exterminate the human race since it isn't perfect. Want to volunteer to be first? Or are you perfect?

[addendum] Get a new TV, one that features an On/Off capability and channel changing electronics. That way you will not be forced to watch those Olympics that seem to distress you so much.

--Pete

The only part of the Smog Games I watched was part of the opening ceremonies that included the group of drummers. I still wonder what happened to the poor bastards who messed up. I hope they like their new position in slave labor camps:)

[ShadowHM]

So, you're saying that if it is true, and not saying that it is, it shouldn't be reported as the fraud that it is?

I do not wish to place words in Chesspiece_face's mouth, but...

If it is to be reported at all, there are channels for that. Media insinuations to an uninformed public don't qualify as such.

[Chesspiece_face]

So, you're saying that if it is true, and not saying that it is, it shouldn't be reported as the fraud that it is?

What i'm saying is there is ABSOLUTELY no evidence that these girls are younger than they claim to be other than the ignorant views of people looking at them and making judgement claims based on what they think a 16 year old SHOULD look like.

If there is evidence that the chinese have fraudulantly enrolled gymnists who are not old enough to qualify then the media should report that evidence. That isn't what they are doing however. they are insinuating and obfuscating in an attempt to create inflammatory stories instead of taking the valid opportunity to inform the viewing public about real issues that effect these gymnists and what they go through to compete at this level.

[kandrathe]

This whole "controversy" is just an epic failure on the part of the media. They have the opportunity to actually inform and educate their viewers and instead at every opportunity they just turn to tabloidism and insinuations.

I agree. My wife and I watched the Women's Gymnastic Team event, and our consensus was that it was sad they these children were taken away from their families as young as 3 years old to be trained to become Olympic gold medalists. You also wonder what horrible things might happen to the child that under performs. This Olympics was a demonstration of Chinese nationalism, and establishing in fact their right to be leaders of the world.

The Chinese government actively invests in and engineers the results of the Olympics. This has been known for many, many years. Here is a Time magazine article.

So, while the Chinese performance was impressive, to me it will be tarnished by the thought of the 400,000 children ripped from their families and consigned into sports slavery toiling away in China's 300+ state run sports academies.

Edit: Also in regards to the Chinese women's age. They are on a strict diet regime of 700-800 calories/day when coupled with their training regime stunts development, as per USSR and Nadia Comaneci. This also delays the onset of menstruation. Check out this Salon article interviewing Jennifer Sey, and her book "Chalked Up: Inside Elite Gymnastics' Merciless Coaching, Overzealous Parents, Eating Disorders, and Elusive Olympic Dreams" -- And, that is what happens in the "Free" nations.

[Tris]

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/g...=yhoo&type=lgns

I find it interesting that a least one of the gals competing had a 1993 birthdate listed on prior competitions. Also Chinese gov't agency listed another as a 1993 birth date too. Not only are the years different on some of them, but apparently the month of birth is also different than what is listed on passports.

Also, there was apparently news coverage (bear in mind state run Chinese coverage) about the "13 Year Old" prodigy (He) performing in 2007. Now, unless I missed something here, you don't become 3 years older from 2007 - 2008.

See also, the admission by another Chinese gymnast in 2000 that she competed underage.

I know this may sound bad, etc. But, I don't trust the Chinese government any farther than I can throw them. I find it sad that the government is pumping out these athletes to do things that their bodies probably aren't really able to handle (at least long term).

I'm not going to say that our gymnastics coaches didn't make asses of themselves, because they appear to have done just that.

Based on what I have read, the U.S. seems to have... not done all that well in gymnastics. My position isn't give the U.S. the gold, my position comes from the utter disgust at yet another example of Chinese child labor.

[Colonel_here]

Ok. I am failing to see what exactly the problem, and how does the age matter in these competitions. It seems that news source just scream about the whole thing but can not explain to me how the age of the competitor would give them an advantage.
Could some one please explain this?

[Mirajj]

Ok. I am failing to see what exactly the problem, and how does the age matter in these competitions. It seems that news source just scream about the whole thing but can not explain to me how the age of the competitor would give them an advantage.
Could some one please explain this?

Age matters because the IOC (iirc) has set the minimum age limit for competitors to 16. If you are under 16, you are not allowed to compete in the Olympics (win or lose). This was done to prevent very young athletes from being overworked by those who should be in charge of them, be it parents, coachs, country, etc.

So the problem isn't that the young girls won, it's a question of whether or not they are old enough to be competing in the first place.

[Mordekhuul]

Age matters becuase the IOC (iirc) has set the minimum age limit for competitors to 16. If you are under 16, you are not allowed to compete in the Olympics (win or lose). This was done to prevent very young athletes from being overworked by those who should be in charge of them, be it parents, coachs, country, etc.

So the problem isn't that the young girls won, it's a question of whether or not they are old enough to be competing in the first place.

Indeed. Argue against the rule, but the mere presence of the rule means that countries complying are at a competetive disadvantage to countries willing to break it, as well.

[Nystul]

Based on what I have read, the U.S. seems to have... not done all that well in gymnastics. My position isn't give the U.S. the gold, my position comes from the utter disgust at yet another example of Chinese child labor.

At these games? They won silver in the team competition, and two of the girls have won gold and silver in the individual all-around event. The third best was injured right before competition started, and the girls who had to step into her place made some mistakes in the team competition. I'd say that is pretty solid (with the individual apparatus finals yet to come) and this may be the best women's gymnastics team the U.S. has ever fielded. The Chinese were the more solid team on the day of team finals, without a doubt.

In female gymnastics, any amount of height seems to be a disadvantage on virtually every event, and this is a health problem. I have a niece who competes in club gymnastics, and when she was 10 or maybe a bit younger she started watching her weight and wanting to stay short for the rest of her life. This is a girl with no pressure from her parents, whose mother and older sister are both pretty big eaters, and she comes up with ideas like this. The sport is physically brutal to begin with, without adding eating disorders and putting so much emotional pressure on such young girls.

[Ashock]

Ok. I am failing to see what exactly the problem, and how does the age matter in these competitions. It seems that news source just scream about the whole thing but can not explain to me how the age of the competitor would give them an advantage.
Could some one please explain this?

It is significantly easier for girls of 13-14 years of age to do the difficult routines due to the makeup of their bodies. The fact that no other country has girls of this age, puts the Chinese gymnasts at a significant advantage to the other teams. This does not apply to men's Gymnastics since it requires the strength of a basically adult male to do their routines. Notice that the most famous female gymnast in history, Nadia Comaneci, was 14 when she won the Olympics, destroying the competition with 7 perfect 10s, a score that was basically unheard of before. There is a reason for that.

However, why is everyone making such a big deal about this? Considering what the Chinese did with the little girl singer at the opening ceremony.... why all the controversy? It is par for the course with that type of a government.

[[wcip]Angel]

Ashock: So because the Chinese government made a faux pas with the lip-synching girl at the opening ceremony, the media should ignore and not report other potential violations to the rules of the olympic games?

I have yet to make my mind up about this whole thing. There seems to be a tendency in the media to rag on this year's olympics. Whether it is warranted or not remains to be seen in the months to come.