GOT season 7 thread

[kandrathe]

I had avoided 1 thru 6, but over the summer had a free HBO deal. So, I got caught up. Who else here is watching still?

[Taem]

Love it, such a great series. The only thing I noticed that was unique this season is...

Spoliers














Due to the change of content (i.e. no more source material), the show seems more modernized in the sense that what I expect to happen happens, an all too common trope amongst current TV writers. Arya killing ALL the Frey leaders? Lol, way over the top, even for her character, and a level of vengeance unbefitting her character. Soap opera derived conflict in Winterfell? G.R.Martin stared clear of that train wreck of a trope. Each side aligning just perfectly? Lol, yeah right, would never happen in the cannon universe. The writers may be excellent at writing for TV, but their story telling is decades, maybe centuries old. I'm sure it will have a pleasant ending, but it's lost its GoT charm and luster in my opinion. Still, I'm very excited about tonight's episode so, I suppose this means they're doing their job.

[kandrathe]

Love it, such a great series. The only thing I noticed that was unique this season is...

Spoliers














Due to the change of content (i.e. no more source material), the show seems more modernized in the sense that what I expect to happen happens, an all too common trope amongst current TV writers. Arya killing ALL the Frey leaders? Lol, way over the top, even for her character, and a level of vengeance unbefitting her character. Soap opera derived conflict in Winterfell? G.R.Martin stared clear of that train wreck of a trope. Each side aligning just perfectly? Lol, yeah right, would never happen in the cannon universe. The writers may be excellent at writing for TV, but their story telling is decades, maybe centuries old. I'm sure it will have a pleasant ending, but it's lost its GoT charm and luster in my opinion. Still, I'm very excited about tonight's episode so, I suppose this means they're doing their job.

It might cater to a bit of fan service now, but I loved the Frey massacre all the same. About tonight... somebody needed just a bit more scouting. "We have one enemy to fear, lets go get surprised."

[Sabra]

I've watched episode 1 three times and episode 2 twice. Love the direction that the show is taking. I'm excited that they're taking the time to set up the direction, etc. I was a bit afraid it would be all action action action since time is running short.

[kandrathe]

I'm going to wait on reading the books until the show is done. I know it would be impossible to fit all the book plot into the show. But, it will be interesting to see the books story eventually.

[Thenryb]

I'm going to wait on reading the books until the show is done. I know it would be impossible to fit all the book plot into the show. But, it will be interesting to see the books story eventually.

I do not think the books will ever be completed. I have to say I think the HBO production is better than the books anyway.

[Taem]

I'm going to wait on reading the books until the show is done. I know it would be impossible to fit all the book plot into the show. But, it will be interesting to see the books story eventually.

I do not think the books will ever be completed. I have to say I think the HBO production is better than the books anyway.

As to be expected, I found the descriptions and of course details to be far more extensive in the first (and only) book I read versus the TV series, minor minutia that's left out of the TV series but really enhances the flavor of the series. However, I felt the story as a whole was a bit dull and there were so many damn names to memorize... it has not been my favorite book series, so I agree the TV series is definitely more exciting on that front.

[kandrathe]

I'm going to wait on reading the books until the show is done. I know it would be impossible to fit all the book plot into the show. But, it will be interesting to see the books story eventually.

I do not think the books will ever be completed. I have to say I think the HBO production is better than the books anyway.

As to be expected, I found the descriptions and of course details to be far more extensive in the first (and only) book I read versus the TV series, minor minutia that's left out of the TV series but really enhances the flavor of the series. However, I felt the story as a whole was a bit dull and there were so many damn names to memorize... it has not been my favorite book series, so I agree the TV series is definitely more exciting on that front.

I guess I might not be as lost then, having the shows slimmed down story framework as an introduction. I'm interested in more details on some of the glossed over bits like Dorn, or the sect of the faceless ones.

[Taem]

Was anyone else drastically disappointed with episode 2? Problems I couldn't get over:

1. Queen of Dorne, let me emphasis this for you, "Queen". Where in the fuck was her royal guard that all royalty has? Are we to believe it was just those three little girls? Did this shows writers just take stupid pills? The boat scene was so utterly anti-climatic when you take into consideration she was missing her entire royal guard. Poor writing. And speaking of which...

2. Euron's sneak attack. Are we honestly to believe a fleet of 1,000 ships... ONE-THOUSAND FUCKING SHIPS... cannot be spotted in enough time to give at least a 60-second warning before they attacked? Regardless of it being night and overcast, Yara's fleet was not small either and without doubt, one of the ships in front would have seen his huge fucking fleet approach. Not to mention the complete and utter suspension of disbelief that Eurons ship somehow magically found and attacked Yara's directly, and on the very first attack of the fight no less. Again, lazy, terrible writing with zero knowledge of sea warfare.

3. The agreement reached with queen Daenerys. Talk about brief and unfulfilling, and again, wholly unbelievable; queen Daenerys, the queen of Dorne, the lordess/queen of the Iron Islands, and the regent queen Lady Olena all gathered, and we're to believe their conversation would go like that? I just about face-palmed when the queen of Dorne reluctantly rolled her eyes at following the plan, as if someone of her stature would allow her self to be told what to do. This show has gotten weak without source material.

4. Theon. Need I even say a word more? His character has gone through the worst shit imaginable, but he's evolved since we last saw him when he made a conscious resolve to join Yara... that is until he suddenly reverts back to the sniveling pet of Ramseys without just cause in a situation where he would definitely not do what he did knowing full well what captors are capable of doing to their captees, and what Euron did to his own father. This show just dropped somewhere into the toilet.

I'd dreading the episode tonight to be honest.

[kandrathe]

Was anyone else drastically disappointed with episode 2? Problems I couldn't get over:

2. Euron's sneak attack. Are we honestly to believe a fleet of 1,000 ships... ONE-THOUSAND FUCKING SHIPS... cannot be spotted in enough time to give at least a 60-second warning before they attacked? Regardless of it being night and overcast, Yara's fleet was not small either and without doubt, one of the ships in front would have seen his huge fucking fleet approach. Not to mention the complete and utter suspension of disbelief that Eurons ship somehow magically found and attacked Yara's directly, and on the very first attack of the fight no less. Again, lazy, terrible writing with zero knowledge of sea warfare.

Yes. You don't sneak attack with 1000 ships. You have scouts, but no one sails into that kind of ambush unawares. This writing flub is worse than the Arya chase scene with the waif. Ep. 3 has me befuddled on the Unsullied with the Lannister army as well. Dany has a spy master, and yet no one notices the army leaving Castily Rock, or marching towards High Garden? And, again, another surprise at sea. Like are Ironborne/ Greyjoy's ninja pirates?

I doubt GRR would make these type of strategic and tactically blind mistakes.

[Jester]

Like are Ironborne/ Greyjoy's ninja pirates?

Yes, and therefore, they get stealthier in larger numbers.

-Jester

[Taem]

The first two episodes can almost be forgiven if taken into context here. Take a look at where Dragonstone is located:

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/ima...g9wjpg.jpg

Now look at the proximity to Kingslanding, and where Dorne is located. The surprise attack made by Euron almost makes sense, except look now where Casterly Rock is... other side of the continent/land-mass if traveling by ship. How does any of this make sense? Well, if Euron got wind of the impending attack on Casterly Rock via ship as they stated in episode 3 (as if everyone knew it was happening already), then he just had to split his fleet up and be a half days travel behind the unsullied to remain unspotted, while he went in with a stealth crew to attack his cousin with a much smaller army. It also leads some credence to the concept that perhaps Daenerys has spys working against her in her own cabinet. Could also explain why the master of spys was left unawares if he was being fed false intel. I hope the writers expound upon this, because it seems the most logical course, as it's competely impossible for Euron to have attacked Casterly Rock after delivering the queen of Dorne to Cercsi since they were happening within days of one another.

Tl;dr; if Euron is the one who personally attacked Casterly Rock and there is not sub agents in Daenerys cabinet feeding her false information, then this show has dipped into ridiculousness, which is very sad. However... if Euron split his fleet to make this brilliant strategic maneuver and counterspys feeding Daenerys false information, then episode 1 and 2 can be forgiven for bad writing and lack of explanation of the situation, but the story would then make a lot of sense and be rock solid once again.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Looking forward, I see Daenerys fed up listening to her "advisors", pissed at both her loss at sea, and her unsullied being trapped. If you look at the map, if the unsullied leave Castlerly Rock on foot, they will be decimated by Cercis forces directly from Kings Landing. Cercsi took over HighGarden to pay back the Iron Bank (brilliant move) and has the dragon shooting crossbows, and she is forcing Daenerys hand and forcing her to use her dragons, so Cercsi clearly has the upper hand here! I believe Daenerys will ignore her advisors and lay siege directly to Kings Landing... and lose a dragon or two in the process and not take over Kings Landing. I'm not sure how Jon Snow and the Nights King play out in all this, but I am sure Daenerys will have to use at least one of her dragons. And I'm also not sure how Jon Snow finding out that Daenerys is his blood will matter at all at this point... if anything, it might make Daenerys hate and distrust Jon even more since he's the rightful heir and not her. Fire and Ice clashing? (btw, click that link, it's just a graph showing where Jon Snow fits into the mix)

[Jester]

Just to expand on that, Westeros is comically enormous. The show seems to assume it's about the size of Britain, when "in fact," (taking in-world distance descriptions as canonical) it's about the size of the United States. That means you can't march an army across it, or sail a navy around it, in a matter of days. Travel should take weeks, or even months.

Don't even get me started on how the Iron Islands can assemble the world's largest and deadliest fleet from scratch in a matter of weeks, but also apparently refrained from doing so in general for ... reasons?

-Jester

[kandrathe]

Take a look at where Dragonstone is located...

Yes, but... If you are at Dragonstone, and you know Euron's at Kings Landing with 1000 ships, you are wary and paranoid... not trying to get frisky with mama sand snake.

Considering the USS Constitution (Keel laid: November 1, 1794 -- Commissioned: October 1, 1797), admittedly more complicated, but... say 1/2 or 1/3 the time... then consider the costs and material procurement needed for 1000 ships, all of which must be pretty rare in the iron isles (renowned for its worthless land). How many ship yards, and how many dry docks? Nobody heard about this endeavor and thought, "Euron's building a huge navy, lets stomp him now."

http://historyofmassachusetts.org/uss-co...struction/

"When the ship was being built in the 18th century, live and white oak grew abundantly throughout the colonies and was easy to procur. The live oak used to build the Constitution came from the swamp coastal forests of Georgia.

The ship’s masts, cabinetry, millwork, and trim were originally made of Eastern white pine. This tree was also abundant in the colonies.

The ship’s beams and decks were made of longleaf pine. This type of tree grew mostly in the south and the longleaf pine used to build the USS Constitution came from South Carolina.

The ship’s rigging components, such as sheaves, blocks, belaying pins, and deadeyes were made out of a type of wood called Lignum vitae. This is one of the hardiest, heaviest types of wood and grows mostly in the Caribbean islands and South America.

Around 150,000 wooden pegs called treenails (pronounced “trunnels”), made of black locust, were used to pin the ship’s hull together.

Tarred paper, called “Irish felt,” was placed between the hull and the 12,000 feet of copper sheeting lining it."

[LennyLen]

Nobody heard about this endeavor and thought, "Euron's building a huge navy, lets stomp him now."

It's been a while since I read the books, but hadn't Euron been away for quite some time? He may have amassed the fleet then.

[kandrathe]

Nobody heard about this endeavor and thought, "Euron's building a huge navy, lets stomp him now."

It's been a while since I read the books, but hadn't Euron been away for quite some time? He may have amassed the fleet then.

He returned, killed his brother, then there was a contest for the leadership. He won(IIRC) by promising to build the fleet and conquer Westeros.

I believe according to the story I know, Yara and Theon fled taking about 30 of best ships to find Dany. While they were at the Slaver's bay, Euron built his fleet.

[Jester]

It's been a while since I read the books, but hadn't Euron been away for quite some time? He may have amassed the fleet then.

I believe this is a point of substantial divergence between the two stories, though I myself haven't read them. Yara/Asha makes off with a far larger slice of the Iron Fleet in the show than in the books. In the show, they make a point of telling his shipwrights to build him a fleet after Yara makes off with it. In the books, Euron takes a windier road, and has more of the original Iron Fleet still intact.

-Jester

[Taem]

Saw this and lol'd. Wanted to share: Link

[kandrathe]

I've watched episode 1 three times and episode 2 twice. Love the direction that the show is taking. I'm excited that they're taking the time to set up the direction, etc. I was a bit afraid it would be all action action action since time is running short.

Episode 4... just wow.

[Taem]

Episode 4... just wow.

I finally saw it tonight. Very impressive. The last two episodes have been quite a delight, which is nice. If the first two weren't so rushed, we'd have a full 10-episodes this season.

Anyway, Arya... who would have thought she had become so accomplished. Truly impressive.

Bran... I love it when he tells Little Finger, "Chaos is a ladder", which is what Little Finger told Varys back in season 3. The meaning runs deep here, some prophetic symbolism and philosophical meaning.

Snow... his face when Daenerys tell him, "Isn’t their survival more important than your pride?" Chills... such foreshadowing since this is exactly what Snow told Mance. I will admit the writers struck gold with this episode.

Dragon power... what more is there to say? That looked exactly how I imagine a war with fire breathing dragons would look. The cinematography, the special effects... Jesus, this is no Marvel ripoff. It looks so real, so sad. I actually think I'll rewatch this entire episode again, so impressed!