So not a hate crime?

[EspyLacopa]

Had a wacky thought: Isn't the belief that Black People cannot (literally can't) be in a position of power rather racist?

After all, have you never seen nations like Ethiopia?

[FireIceTalon]

@Kandrathe

Race is indeed a social construct, I agree with that. But, in the context of the current American system, I think denying there are different races is dangerous, because its a slippery slope to denying the existence of racism (albeit unintentionally). The abolishment of the current institutions and system, and the achievement of equality, would be the only way to safely say that there are no longer "different races". In other words, it is the institution of racism, that created and still perpetuates the social construct of RACE itself. We cannot be "color blind" until racism is abolished.

@Espy

If you mean the thought that blacks shouldn't be allowed to be in a position of power (like as in politics), then yea, that would be blatantly racist. But that isn't the context I was speaking in. Ethiopia has some similar problems to American racism, but is a bit more complicated.

But this thread concerns itself with racial relations in American society, where whites enjoy power and privileges that minorities do not. To abolish racism, we must first acknowledge that it does indeed exist. This is precisely the problem with people like Ashock, who think we live in this post-racial fairytale society of America, when it is far from being the case.

[kandrathe]

It's the kind of story that's so random and unsettling that the desire for clear, moral parameters feels even more pressing. That's why it's worth wrestling over the language of racism, even if no words can make the event any more comprehensible, or, for the victim and his family, any less calamitous.

NPR -- A Discomfiting Question: Was The Chicago Torture Case Racism?

[Archon_Wing]

Haul those guys away. Racist, prejudice, w/e. They committed a crime based on prejudice of mental illness and race. The word "hate" or not is really a matter of semantics. After all, we're charging these people as individuals....

However, while these laws may have flaws, I find the recent sentiment that laws that protect minorities are inherently wrong to be troublesome, and that folks like BLM should be considered representative, of well, anything. Just because some people who oppose racism/sexism are idiots doesn't mean the claim there's racism or sexism or whatever doesn't exist.

[Ashock]

Haul those guys away. Racist, prejudice, w/e. They committed a crime based on prejudice of mental illness and race. The word "hate" or not is really a matter of semantics. After all, we're charging these people as individuals....

However, while these laws may have flaws, I find the recent sentiment that laws that protect minorities are inherently wrong to be troublesome, and that folks like BLM should be considered representative, of well, anything. Just because some people who oppose racism/sexism are idiots doesn't mean the claim there's racism or sexism or whatever doesn't exist.

The problem is not that BLM exists, but that BLM is given credibility by a lot of the mainstream and most blacks.

As far as racism existing, you are correct. It does. However, it exists at least as much in our black population (towards others that is) as it does in our white, Latin American, Asian or whatever else. The mainstream only talks about white racism as though just because blacks endured 150+ years of crap absolves them of any and all responsibity.
How many all black groups, scholarships, publications, awards etc etc do you know about?
Now, how many white? The only one I can think of is KKK, which is naturally rightfully shunned and called racist.

Go ahead and start a magazine called Ivory and see what happens. Go start a whites only scholarship and see how quickly you get your head bashed in, probably both figuratively and literally.

Until the majority of americans start recognizing this and more importantly speak out against this, this country is in deep shit.

I am not expecting democrats to do it, since that would potentially take away 95% of their built-in 15% of the population black vote. However, if you are not a liberal, communist, socialist or other type of recidivist, then while you are not a part of the problem, you are guilty by inaction.

This country due to the greatness of it's founders, some of it's past leaders and geographical isolation has been blessed. The last two generations have been shitting this blessing away. I can forgive the brainwashed Russians. I can forgive the brainwashed North koreans. But I can't forgive Americans for this. These others never had an opportunity to know better. Americans had it. No excuse.

Get your heads out of the sand, people.

[kandrathe]

The problem is not that BLM exists, but that BLM is given credibility by a lot of the mainstream and most blacks.

BLM is a response to incidence of unarmed black people being killed by police. It is an affirmation of equality, to themselves, and to the public at large.

The mainstream only talks about white racism as though just because blacks endured 150+ years of crap absolves them of any and all responsibility.

Or, from ancient to present day. Only by fighting the validity of racism, can we end the trafficking of people as property.

How many all black groups, scholarships, publications, awards etc etc do you know about? Now, how many white? The only one I can think of is KKK, which is naturally rightfully shunned and called racist. Go ahead and start a magazine called Ivory and see what happens. Go start a whites only scholarship and see how quickly you get your head bashed in, probably both figuratively and literally.

I would say ALL the others that are not specifically designated traditionally favored the majority. You seem to be not seeing all the exclusion around you, some private clubs you may have missed are Elk, Moose, Rotary, Knickerbockers, Odd Fellows, Masons, Lotos Club, or like here The Minneapolis Club. Not overtly "white only" but, by invitation to the "rich only". Which, traditionally has meant white men.

When it comes to scholarships to college, "In fact, they are less likely to receive college scholarships. And they represent about a third of the applicants, but only about 28 percent of the recipients. Caucasian students receive 72 percent of all scholarships. Minority students receive only 28 percent of all scholarships."

Exclusion from college begins by exclusion from any preparatory high school (program).

[Ashock]

The problem is not that BLM exists, but that BLM is given credibility by a lot of the mainstream and most blacks.

BLM is a response to incidence of unarmed black people being killed by police. It is an affirmation of equality, to themselves, and to the public at large.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-sta...on-bandler

Enjoy.

Oh and if you think that BLM was created for the reason you stated, then we don't have much to discuss on this topic.

Only by fighting the validity of racism, can we end the trafficking of people as property.

Yeah, whites already fought for it. Who else did? Africans? Nope. Asians? Nope. Muslims? Nope. As I pointed out earlier, whites are the first ones who abolished slavery. The fact that it exists in certain dark corners of the world is not the doing of white people and has not been for many years now. You remind me of Don Quixote fighting windmills that he imagines are giants.

I would say ALL the others that are not specifically designated traditionally favored the majority. You seem to be not seeing all the exclusion around you, some private clubs you may have missed are Elk, Moose, Rotary, Knickerbockers, Odd Fellows, Masons, Lotos Club, or like here The Minneapolis Club. Not overtly "white only" but, by invitation to the "rich only". Which, traditionally has meant white men.

Traditionally means фекал. Traditionally, The New England Patriots were losers. Then Belichik and Brady took over. Are they losers now? Wow, what a terrible organization they are. Losers! If you only concentrate on the past, then you will never understand the present. Yeah, there's a gap, but it's economic not racial. If you have a problem with that, talk to the resident communist.

When it comes to scholarships to college, "In fact, they are less likely to receive college scholarships. And they represent about a third of the applicants, but only about 28 percent of the recipients. Caucasian students receive 72 percent of all scholarships. Minority students receive only 28 percent of all scholarships."

Exclusion from college begins by exclusion from any preparatory high school (program).

Whites are about 69% of the population. blacks about 15%. Blacks on average score significantly lower on college Aptitude tests.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015...main-large

SAT scores for 2015:

Black 431 428 418
White 529 534 513

I dunno, I'd say I see nothing unfair about the scholarship distribution, at least not towards blacks.

You are starting to sound like the mainstream media. I stopped watching mainstream media years ago, at least for the purpose of getting accurate news. I hope you understand where I'm going with this.

[FireIceTalon]

http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-sta...on-bandler

Enjoy.

Oh and if you think that BLM was created for the reason you stated, then we don't have much to discuss on this topic.

The statistics in the source you provided are greatly skewed and misconstrued in a way so that they don't tell the the whole/correct story - because the source you provided isn't constructed to provide actual statistics in an genuine attempt at understanding actual material conditions, but rather to pander to the direction of your specific ideological narrative.

This source provides a more accurate and complete interpretation of what is really goin' on.

A 2015 study by a University of California at Davis researcher concluded there was “no relationship” between crime rates by race and racial bias in police killings. A report released last week by the Center for Policing Equity, which reviewed arrest and use-of-force data from 12 police departments, concluded that black residents were more often targeted for use of police force than white residents, even when adjusting for whether the person was a violent criminal.

Nor does your red herring source provide anything to disprove Kandrathe's point that BLM was developed as a reaction and resistance against systemic police killings of blacks.

I absolutely abhor what these people did to this poor guy, especially in light of the fact that he is clearly and severely disabled. He did not deserve this to happen to him. However, I equally abhor obnoxious right-wingers like yourself using this as an opportunity to scapegoat and vilifiy BLM (especially when there isn't even a shred of evidence that this incident is linked to them), and black people as a whole as you have done throughout this thread.

Yeah, whites already fought for it. Who else did? Africans? Nope. Asians? Nope. Muslims? Nope. As I pointed out earlier, whites are the first ones who abolished slavery. The fact that it exists in certain dark corners of the world is not the doing of white people and has not been for many years now. You remind me of Don Quixote fighting windmills that he imagines are giants

This is the type of historically white-washed revisionist crap that we hear every goddamn day. Thinking whites, the biggest perpetrators and beneficiaries of slavery and institutionalized racism in general, where the first and only group to fight racism and slavery is not only historical bullshit, but is extremely insulting and degrading to non-whites. I would go as far to say that your view is actually a pro-slavery one dressed up as the so-called 'white savior complex' myth.

White people were NOT the first people to fight slavery or racism. Your whole view is one of white nationalist idealism. Blacks being completely docile and not fighting for their freedom is one of the biggest historical lies and misconceptions of all time:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-american...ves-rebel/

^^That alone, is quite sufficient in discrediting your entire theory. One only needs to conduct an rudimentary historical investigation of slavery to see that you are utterly wrong.

And, what about the countless, undocumented/lesser known rebellions and escape attempts from slaves throughout its history? What about larger, more famous resistances such as the Hatian Revolution? Blacks were fighting slavery looooooong before the Emancipation Proclamation was even a thought. Blacks also fought in the Civil War itself (with key figures such as Frederick Douglas leading the way), so no, whites do NOT get all the credit for ending slavery either. They certainly get a ton of credit, and rightfully so, for starting it, however.

Perhaps you should learn some REAL history instead of listening to the crap that morons like Rush pollute your feeble mind with.

If you only concentrate on the past, then you will never understand the present. Yeah, there's a gap, but it's economic not racial. If you have a problem with that, talk to the resident communist.

Kandrathe need not talk to me about this. Me and him are worlds apart politically speaking, but he correctly pointed out here that you cannot seperate the symbiotic relationship of class and race in American history.

To understand the present requires an historical investigation and understanding of the past. Class division and struggle is the fundamental driving force of history, but it would be incorrect to say that in the case of America that there is not a racial element intertwined with it, because there undeniably is, and it goes all the way back to 1676 with Bacon's Rebellion. In the aftermath of this uprising, the white ruling classes came to realize that a unified black and white working class uprising was a threat to their power and status, and they knew it was necessary to fracture them based upon a false but politically effective idea of white supremacy. The same concept of white supremacy is alive and well to this day, and still used as a way of keeping working class whites and non-whites divided to prevent or curb the development of more radical or revolutionary political thought.

I stopped watching mainstream media years ago, at least for the purpose of getting accurate news.

And still, it has done you no good. The irony of this thinking is that so many people who criticize mainstream media think they are somehow, magically better informed, when this isn't necessarily the case - as you constantly demonstrate. You are just like the wing-nuts who think Alex Jones and InfoWars is a legitimate news source. Your infantile, mechanical understanding of history is a joke - mainstream or not. In short, you're dumb, and the rest of us are getting dumber from reading your ahistorical crud. It's so bad, a part of me still thinks you're a troll and that you write this crap for attention, but that is probably wishful thinking on my part.

[Ashock]

Yeah, whites already fought for it. Who else did? Africans? Nope. Asians? Nope. Muslims? Nope. As I pointed out earlier, whites are the first ones who abolished slavery. The fact that it exists in certain dark corners of the world is not the doing of white people and has not been for many years now. You remind me of Don Quixote fighting windmills that he imagines are giants

This is the type of historically white-washed revisionist crap that we hear every goddamn day. The so-called 'white savior complex' myth.

White people were NOT the first people to fight slavery or racism, this is historiographical nonsense at its best. Blacks being completely docile and not fighting for their freedom is one of the biggest historical lies and misconceptions of all time:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-american...ves-rebel/

^^That pretty much discredits your entire theory. Perhaps you should learn some REAL history instead of listening to morons like Rush pollute your feeble mind all day long.

Not to mention there were countless, undocumented rebellions and escape attempts from slaves throughout its history, and other larger more famous resistances such as the Hatian Revolution. Blacks were fighting slavery looooooong before the Emancipation Proclamation was even a thought. Blacks also fought in the Civil War itself (with key figures such as Frederick Douglas leading the way), so no, whites do NOT get all the credit for ending slavery either. They certainly get a ton of credit, and rightfully so, for starting it, however.

If you only concentrate on the past, then you will never understand the present. Yeah, there's a gap, but it's economic not racial. If you have a problem with that, talk to the resident communist.

To understand the present requires an understanding of the past. And you cannot seperate race and class, especially when it comes to the institution of American racism. Class division is the fundamental aspect that has driven human history forward but it would be incorrect to say that in the case of America that there is not a racial element intertwined with it, cause there absolutely is, and it goes all the way back to 1676 with Bacon's Rebellion. And the same concept of white supremacy is used to this very day, since this event, as a way of keeping working class whites and non-whites divided to prevent or curb the development of more radical or revolutionary thought.

Kandrathe need not talk to me about this. Me and him are worlds apart politically speaking, but he correctly pointed out here that you cannot seperate class and race in the context of American history.

I stopped watching mainstream media years ago, at least for the purpose of getting accurate news.

And it has done you no good. The irony of it is that so many people who criticize mainstream media think they are somehow, magically better informed when this isn't necessarily the case - as you constantly demonstrate. I don't like mainstream media either but just because you stop watching or reading it doesn't make you informed. Your simplistic, mechanical understanding of history is a joke - mainstream or not. In short, you're dumb, and the rest of us are getting dumber from reading your ahistorical crud.

[FireIceTalon]

You know, quoting Lenin here, in an attempt to discredit me or shield yourself from vilification (or both), doesn't serve you too well. It does accomplish two things, though.

A). You deliberately misconstrue the meaning or context of what and/or how it was being said by Lenin for your own purposes. And...

B). It's a quote, that ironically enough, flawlessly applies to your derogatory and despicable pro-slavery/white nationalist rhetoric.

Just when I think your idiocy can't outdo itself, you prove me wrong. Great job.

[kandrathe]

Oh and if you think that BLM was created for the reason you stated, then we don't have much to discuss on this topic.

It has certainly morphed politically into something else, but it's genesis was the "self defense" shooting of Treyvon Martin by civilian George Zimmerman. The root of it is the appearance of unfair justice meted out against those who take the lives of black people. I believe there are some bad actors in the police. They are probably just as likely to use unwarranted force regardless of the perpetrator.

Yeah, whites already fought for it. Who else did? Africans? Nope. Asians? Nope. Muslims? Nope. As I pointed out earlier, whites are the first ones who abolished slavery. The fact that it exists in certain dark corners of the world is not the doing of white people and has not been for many years now. You remind me of Don Quixote fighting windmills that he imagines are giants.

I'm not fighting anything, I'm inside the windmill grinding the grain. But, I can see what's happening outside. My point is that your perception of Black suffering as something only in the distant past is wrong. When comparing outcomes in our society, more black people are arrested, and incarcerated. Fewer black people graduate from high school, or college and fewer black people have the means to run a business. If you think the answer is because they are black, then it is you who is the racist.

Yeah, there's a gap, but it's economic not racial.

It's not just economic, or racial. It's a good ol' boys club. You get excluded if you aren't from around here too. Women don't get the invitation either.

Whites are about 69% of the population. blacks about 15%. Blacks on average score significantly lower on college Aptitude tests.

I dunno, I'd say I see nothing unfair about the scholarship distribution, at least not towards blacks.

"Continuing an uninterrupted trend that dates back to at least 1972, high school boys outperformed girls on the 2015 SAT math test with an average score of 527 points compared to the average score of 496 for females, see chart above. The statistically significant 31-point male advantage this year on the SAT math test is the same as the 31-point difference last year, and just slightly below the 33.9 point difference over the last two decades favoring boys."

So, would you also say that males are just inherently smarter than females? Or, could it be that young women are discouraged from pursuing STEM courses? Might then the issue of Black SAT scores be in preparation? In fact, there are many studies that show environment at home and school removes the difference.

[Ashock]

Oh and if you think that BLM was created for the reason you stated, then we don't have much to discuss on this topic.

It has certainly morphed politically into something else, but it's genesis was the "self defense" shooting of Treyvon Martin by civilian George Zimmerman. The root of it is the appearance of unfair justice meted out against those who take the lives of black people. I believe there are some bad actors in the police. They are probably just as likely to use unwarranted force regardless of the perpetrator.

Yeah, whites already fought for it. Who else did? Africans? Nope. Asians? Nope. Muslims? Nope. As I pointed out earlier, whites are the first ones who abolished slavery. The fact that it exists in certain dark corners of the world is not the doing of white people and has not been for many years now. You remind me of Don Quixote fighting windmills that he imagines are giants.

I'm not fighting anything, I'm inside the windmill grinding the grain. But, I can see what's happening outside. My point is that your perception of Black suffering as something only in the distant past is wrong. When comparing outcomes in our society, more black people are arrested, and incarcerated. Fewer black people graduate from high school, or college and fewer black people have the means to run a business. If you think the answer is because they are black, then it is you who is the racist.

Yeah, there's a gap, but it's economic not racial.

It's not just economic, or racial. It's a good ol' boys club. You get excluded if you aren't from around here too. Women don't get the invitation either.

Whites are about 69% of the population. blacks about 15%. Blacks on average score significantly lower on college Aptitude tests.

I dunno, I'd say I see nothing unfair about the scholarship distribution, at least not towards blacks.

"Continuing an uninterrupted trend that dates back to at least 1972, high school boys outperformed girls on the 2015 SAT math test with an average score of 527 points compared to the average score of 496 for females, see chart above. The statistically significant 31-point male advantage this year on the SAT math test is the same as the 31-point difference last year, and just slightly below the 33.9 point difference over the last two decades favoring boys."

So, would you also say that males are just inherently smarter than females? Or, could it be that young women are discouraged from pursuing STEM courses? Might then the issue of Black SAT scores be in preparation? In fact, there are many studies that show environment at home and school removes the difference.

I guess you did not understand where I was going with my closing statement in my reply to you before. Do you understand now?

[Ashock]

You know, quoting Lenin here, in an attempt to discredit me or shield yourself from vilification (or both), doesn't serve you too well. It does accomplish two things, though.

A). You deliberately misconstrue the meaning or context of what and/or how it was being said by Lenin for your own purposes. And...

B). It's a quote, that ironically enough, flawlessly applies to your derogatory and despicable pro-slavery/white nationalist rhetoric.

Just when I think your idiocy can't outdo itself, you prove me wrong. Great job.

Look, let me explain something to you, real quick.
I don't deal real well with stupid, and you have plenty of it.

Thereby, my responses to you have been largely and will be exclusively limited to quotes of your communist heroes. I'm confident that I can find a quote from the lives of these excellent fellows to cover and explain pretty much every piece of drivel that comes out of your ....err... hand.

So you can either ignore my posts, or if you don't, that is all you're going to get, comrade.

Until then, Proletarii Vseh Stran, Soedinjajtes!

[FireIceTalon]

I don't deal real well with stupid

It must be really hard being you then. Especially since being a racist such yourself already automatically implies a huge amount of stupidity.

Also, Lenin isn't a hero of mine, but I'd certainly rather have him in my corner than this guy:

[Ashock]

I don't deal real well with stupid

It must be really hard being you then. Especially since being a racist such yourself already automatically implies a huge amount of stupidity.

Also, Lenin isn't a hero of mine, but I'd certainly rather have him in my corner than this guy:

I am not in his corner. By that token, why not just say that I'm in Hitler's? Cause you know, a lie told often enough...

However, here's the guy you self-admittedly prefer:

[FireIceTalon]

Oh, Hitler would be a great choice for you as well, but using him would be a bit of a cliche so I figured I'd use someone less known.

Either way you are racist scum, and on almost any forum, you'd be banned by now. And before anyone says that I should be banned, no, I haven't done anything EVEN REMOTELY close to being as offensive as being openly racist as Ashock has here. This is fact. But luckily for you, the mods are sympathetic towards fascies, so putting you on ignore from here on out will have to do.

BTW, Lenin wasn't Jewish, but your pic nevertheless is in itself racist since it attempts to use his *perceived* nationality as a negative against him. You can hardly go a single post without being racist. You're pathetic.

[kandrathe]

I guess you did not understand where I was going with my closing statement in my reply to you before. Do you understand now?

My guess is that you just want to troll FIT.

[Archon_Wing]

Wow, what the fuck happened?

[kandrathe]

Wow, what the fuck happened?

Godwin. Time to lock the thread.

[Ashock]

I guess you did not understand where I was going with my closing statement in my reply to you before. Do you understand now?

My guess is that you just want to troll FIT.

I do not troll. However, I reserve the right to discontinue conversations when I feel I am wasting my time. I thought I was pretty clear when I drew a parallel with my comment about ceasing to watch mainstream media.

---

BTW, Lenin wasn't Jewish, but your pic nevertheless is in itself racist since it attempts to use his *perceived* nationality as a negative against him. You can hardly go a single post without being racist. You're pathetic.

Actually you deserve a response to this. Well, maybe not you, but others who are reading this. I simply did not notice the top of the pic. I was looking for this quote and when I found it, I grabbed it.
However, I kinda don't care about you believing me or not about that.