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(10-31-2016, 06:04 PM)kandrathe Wrote: But, as much as you'd like to look at overall votes -- Sanders almost won. He just needed the oomph given to Clinton by the DNC favoritism.
On what planet did Sanders almost win? I feel like a broken record here, but there is no way to slice this where Sanders almost won. Not states, not delegates, not votes, not superdelegates, not anything. And what on earth do you mean by "as much as you'd like to look at overall votes"?
-Jester
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11-01-2016, 08:23 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-01-2016, 08:34 PM by kandrathe.)
(10-31-2016, 09:12 PM)Jester Wrote: (10-31-2016, 06:04 PM)kandrathe Wrote: But, as much as you'd like to look at overall votes -- Sanders almost won. He just needed the oomph given to Clinton by the DNC favoritism.
On what planet did Sanders almost win? I feel like a broken record here, but there is no way to slice this where Sanders almost won. Not states, not delegates, not votes, not superdelegates, not anything. And what on earth do you mean by "as much as you'd like to look at overall votes"?
-Jester
http://www.vox.com/2016/7/27/12241420/ho...on-history
http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/busines...ournalists
That would be in the reality of a "fairly" managed contest.
”There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio.
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11-01-2016, 10:59 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-01-2016, 11:06 PM by Jester.)
(11-01-2016, 08:23 PM)kandrathe Wrote: http://www.vox.com/2016/7/27/12241420/ho...on-history
The Vox article describes the race that happened, a race that was closer than people predicted. But the "almost lost" spin they give it is undermined by the events they describe. As the race unfolded, the situation the polling had always described became clear: Sanders was buoyed by a series of caucus states and small Northern states. Once the big states, southern states, and especially the states with large minority populations started voting, Sanders fell further behind and stayed there. Which, given how the primaries are staggered, more or less means Sanders was losing at all points. Clinton began 30% ahead, and she ended it 12% ahead. If the presidential race was that lopsided, it would be a landslide.
Here's Nate Silver's take. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/was-...landslide/ Note how he manages to take Sanders' impressive performance seriously, but without undermining the clear outcome: "My view is that the race wasn’t really all that close and that Sanders never really had that much of a chance at winning. From a purely horse-race standpoint, in fact, the media probably exaggerated the competitiveness of the race."
Quote:http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/busines...ournalists
The Clinton campaign courted journalists in their bid for the presidency? The press cozies up to frontrunners in exchange for access? You don't say!
-Jester
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(11-01-2016, 10:59 PM)Jester Wrote: The Clinton campaign courted journalists in their bid for the presidency? The press cozies up to frontrunners in exchange for access? You don't say! There is cuddling, and then outright intercourse. The latter smacks of crossing the line of journalistic integrity into outright pandering for Clinton.
”There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio.
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(11-03-2016, 01:28 PM)kandrathe Wrote: There is cuddling, and then outright intercourse. The latter smacks of crossing the line of journalistic integrity into outright pandering for Clinton.
Okay, but unless you're indicting "the man" generally, the press and the DNC aren't the same entity. Hillary is popular in Washington. She has spent what is now a long career cultivating these relationships with the press, consolidating her fundraising base, building support with groups in the Democratic party. She has been thought to be the front-runner for the next presidency more or less since Obama was elected.
Politics is not a pretty game. Clinton is not a natural talent at it, but she has done a LOT of groundwork. That's not rigging the system. That's just succeeding at politics.
-Jester
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(11-03-2016, 01:28 PM)kandrathe Wrote: (11-01-2016, 10:59 PM)Jester Wrote: The Clinton campaign courted journalists in their bid for the presidency? The press cozies up to frontrunners in exchange for access? You don't say! There is cuddling, and then outright intercourse. The latter smacks of crossing the line of journalistic integrity into outright pandering for Clinton.
Sanders is much farther from the average democrat than Trump is from teh average Republican. That is why it isnt strange that Trump is the Republican candidate. I mean come on....compared to GW Bush....especially when he was reelected.......Trump can easily win this one.
Sanders on the other hand.......does not stand a change in a very right wing ultracapitalist country.
Long ago the US people have decided it is not a problem if many live in poverty in their own country and because even most democrats agree someone like Sanders will never stand a chance.
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(11-03-2016, 02:25 PM)Jester Wrote: (11-03-2016, 01:28 PM)kandrathe Wrote: There is cuddling, and then outright intercourse. The latter smacks of crossing the line of journalistic integrity into outright pandering for Clinton.
Okay, but unless you're indicting "the man" generally, the press and the DNC aren't the same entity. Hillary is popular in Washington. She has spent what is now a long career cultivating these relationships with the press, consolidating her fundraising base, building support with groups in the Democratic party. She has been thought to be the front-runner for the next presidency more or less since Obama was elected.
Politics is not a pretty game. Clinton is not a natural talent at it, but she has done a LOT of groundwork. That's not rigging the system. That's just succeeding at politics.
-Jester When the DNC and Clintons are complicit in pay for play access, it's more than politics. It smacks of corruption.
”There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio.
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(11-05-2016, 03:13 AM)kandrathe Wrote: When the DNC and Clintons are complicit in pay for play access, it's more than politics. It smacks of corruption.
The entirety of Washington operates on pay for play, and yes, that is corrupt. But that doesn't somehow make the Democratic primary rigged.
-Jester
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Jester and Kandrathe,
You're both missing the elephant in the room on Sanders (pun sorta intended). Sanders for years has been an independent that voted with the Democrats. It's when he finally wants to run for President that he becomes a Democrat. That alone probably rubbed a number in the Democratic leadership the wrong way.
Sith Warriors - They only class that gets a new room added to their ship after leaving Hoth, they get a Brooncloset
Einstein said Everything is Relative.
Heisenberg said Everything is Uncertain.
Therefore, everything is relatively uncertain.
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(11-05-2016, 07:00 PM)Lissa Wrote: Jester and Kandrathe,
You're both missing the elephant in the room on Sanders (pun sorta intended). Sanders for years has been an independent that voted with the Democrats. It's when he finally wants to run for President that he becomes a Democrat. That alone probably rubbed a number in the Democratic leadership the wrong way. I can see that, yes.
”There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio.
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So tonight, Murcia' will decide if it wants to continue is 'politics as usual' by electing a center right candidate to continue the previous administrations appeal to shallow identity politics and foreign expansion, or if it wants to go the whole 9 yards and vote in, the first time ever perhaps, a full blown fascist.
Either way, workers of the world are fucked.
https://www.youtube.com/user/FireIceTalon
"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (on capitalist laws and institutions)
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11-09-2016, 05:36 AM
(This post was last modified: 11-09-2016, 05:46 AM by FireIceTalon.)
America just about to become the 4th Reich, ha! (although I reckon Trump's fascism is more akin to Mussolini's than Hitler's).
Stock market just plummeted 800 points, ROFL. Either candidate was an epic fail but Amerikkka just sunk to new lows by electing the first KKK backed candidate ever. Dark days ahead, brace yourselves.
Time to get my passport and make for Canada I think.
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"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (on capitalist laws and institutions)
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Funny how Murcian's (mainly liberals) joke about moving to Canada when their guy (or gal) loses, but they might be for real this time @_@
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/...06106.html
Canada's immigration/citizenship website fucking CRASHED. ROFL. Crazy shit.
https://www.youtube.com/user/FireIceTalon
"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (on capitalist laws and institutions)
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(11-09-2016, 06:35 AM)FireIceTalon Wrote: Funny how Murcian's (mainly liberals) joke about moving to Canada when their guy (or gal) loses, but they might be for real this time @_@
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/...06106.html
Canada's immigration/citizenship website fucking CRASHED. ROFL. Crazy shit.
What is Murcia?
Anyway, for most topics I actually don't really care what Trump does....I am not living in the US so the only possible thing that can change is that the EU hopefully now decides not to ratify TTIP.
The only thing I worry about is the environmental policy. With Trump, and congres this might actually be a very bad thing.
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11-09-2016, 09:32 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-10-2016, 07:06 AM by FireIceTalon.)
You should keep in mind this is a guy who said, and I quote unquote, "what is the point of having nuclear weapons if we aren't going to use them". That in itself, is pretty terrifying. So yea, you should be worried if you aren't.
But beyond that, I think its kind of selfish if not shortsighted of you to not care what Trump does just because you don't live here. This man has said he wants to deport all "illegal aliens" (just his use of this verbage alone to describe them is very derogatory), force Mexico to build a wall on the border, has referred to women in the most objectifying and sexist of ways you can imagine, is guilty of sexual assault, has quoted and admires Mussolini.....not to mention all his racist, xenophobic, and anti-working class rhetoric. The KKK openly endorses him. And of course as you mentioned, his environmental policies which are absolutely rubbish.
America just regressed about 200 years. Obamacare (despite all its problems, mainly that it didn't go far enough) is history. Marriage equality? Certainly jeopardized. Roe vs. Wade will probably get repealed. Planned Parenthood? History. Extravagant tax cuts and entitlement programs for the capitalist class left and right. Gutting of social programs for the poor and working class across the board. 'Stop and Frisk" will now probably become federal law to further empower the American Gestapo so they can murder, beat and harass even more innocent minorities. I also predict an impending attack on several pieces of legislation associated with civil rights at some point as well, which would be very easy for him to do with a conservative congress and soon to be SC to back him. To top it all off, and what makes it all the more scary, is that he has an armed-to-the-teeth constituency that is ready to go to war for him.
I don't think you can understand the magnitude of this. World is FUCKED now, big time. Unless you're Russia, I guess.
But at the end of the day, liberals have no one but themselves to blame for this. THIS is what happens, when you pander to shallow identity politics while abandoning class politics as the lexicon and coalition within the working class for social change (not to mention serving corporate interests all the while paying this fake lip service). The Right will inevitably be able to infiltrate said class if you make no attempt to appeal to workers qua workers. Communists and socialists will always be superior in representing the interests of the working class than silly "left-wing progressives" - both on the ground and ideologically. Always.
If America would have had a strong Socialist movement, chances are most workers would have moved to the left instead of falling for the populist right-wing rhetoric of a proto-fascist buffoon. It's 1930's Italy all over again, reborn Yankee style. This election and its result are the SHINING confirmation of why I am a Marxist, and not some utopian liberal that think Capitalism can be (or should be) reformed by voting in sham bourgeois elections. Election after election we Marxists are proven correct each and every time, but this one REALLY confirms it now that Fascism has officially come to Amerikkka. Well, once we organize, there will come a time when it will be open season on Fascists, and good riddance.
You didn't break the glass ceiling, Hillary. You broke the fucking glass FLOOR, so now we will all fall into the abyss of Trumpism. In short, thanks for fucking nothing.
https://www.youtube.com/user/FireIceTalon
"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (on capitalist laws and institutions)
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If only this were 1917 again...
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11-09-2016, 11:23 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-10-2016, 04:12 AM by FireIceTalon.)
Well actually, now that you brought it up, the Soviet Union in 1917 was more progressive than Amerikkka is now, and certainly far more than it was circa 1917. Russian women following the 1917 Revolution were able to hold high political positions, homosexuality, divorce and abortion were all decriminalized, Jews went from being second class citizens (at best) to being able to actually being able to partake in basic human rights such as access to education, illiteracy was almost entirely eradicated, free healthcare, etc.
In America 1917, women couldn't even fucking VOTE for their own oppressors yet, let alone occupy any political position of power; and now in 2016 they vote for a "pussy grabbing" misogynist that has sexually assaulted several women and even raped a 13 year old girl - all in addition to earning the endorsement of the KKK, vowing to build a wall on the American-Mexican border, and deporting all Muslims/banning them from entering the US. You may put that in your pipe and smoke it now. But I'm sure you won't, since right-wingers hate historical facts, especially those which are inconvenient to their deplorable world-view.
Epic. Fucking. Fail. Amerikkka, the shameful. Trump is a chump, and so are all his brain dead supporters.
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"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (on capitalist laws and institutions)
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Show me where Stalin is buried and I'll show you a Communist Plot.
~Edgar Bergen
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11-10-2016, 03:54 AM
(This post was last modified: 11-10-2016, 05:21 AM by FireIceTalon.)
(11-10-2016, 03:40 AM)Alram Wrote: Show me where Stalin is buried and I'll show you a Communist Plot.
~Edgar Bergen
Red herring.
Also, communists don't "plot" anything. Our views, basis and goals should be quite well understood & transparent by now; bourgeois propaganda/McCarthyism to deem any resistance to discrimination, oppression, exploitation and inequality as some sort of "plot", not withstanding.
https://www.youtube.com/user/FireIceTalon
"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (on capitalist laws and institutions)
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(11-10-2016, 03:54 AM)FireIceTalon Wrote: (11-10-2016, 03:40 AM)Alram Wrote: Show me where Stalin is buried and I'll show you a Communist Plot.
~Edgar Bergen
Red herring.
Also, communists don't "plot" anything. Our views, basis and goals should be quite well understood & transparent by now; bourgeois propaganda/McCarthyism to deem any resistance to discrimination, oppression, exploitation and inequality as some sort of "plot", not withstanding. No sense of humor and failure to recognize a pun.
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