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Quote::huh:
I'm well aware there's a minimum resist chance (and that it's getting removed in WotLK). What I was talking about was that there's no minimum miss chance, which is why I clarified that I was talking about misses and not resists.
It is still a miss. It is not a resist. Blizzard has very specifically stated this on its page about how spells work that there is always a 1% miss, even Blizzard does not call it a resist. At one time, the game listed two types of resist for spells, white and yellow. White was a miss, but was labelled as resist. Yellow was an actual resist roll that the mob made and truely resisted the spell. Just because it doesn't say miss, doesn't mean it's not a miss.
Here's links about how spell casting works:
Spell Hit
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Quote:...What you quoted was for Player vs Player or a Mob attacking a player. The rest of the thread has been talking about a player vs a mob, which follows slightly different rules than player vs player (actually it doesn't but some of the numbers are fixed whereas PvP or MvP you have more variables). Basically it's saying it's a 5% vs even level (which is the same for melee vs an even level mob) and that various skills change that. But a 350 weapon skill vs a 350 defense is 5% miss. You'll need enough hit rating to get to 5%. Attack rating in that article refers to weapon skill. Unless something else changed or I misread.
Yes I was asking about PvP specifically, where I thought weapon skill did not apply. So I am still confused, and still wondering why the wowwiki miss formula did not include a factor for the attacker's +hit.
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Quote:Yes I was asking about PvP specifically, where I thought weapon skill did not apply. So I am still confused, and still wondering why the wowwiki miss formula did not include a factor for the attacker's +hit.
As far as I'm aware, weapon skill doesn't affect PvP at all, nor does Defense (though avoidance gains through Defense skill do affect PvP.) But then, I always go pound on some hapless Servant in Blasted Lands if I'm not at 350 anyway.
ArrayPaladins were not meant to sit in the back of the raid staring at health bars all day, spamming heals and listening to eight different classes whine about buffs.[/quote]
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Quote:It is still a miss. It is not a resist. Blizzard has very specifically stated this on its page about how spells work that there is always a 1% miss, even Blizzard does not call it a resist. At one time, the game listed two types of resist for spells, white and yellow. White was a miss, but was labelled as resist. Yellow was an actual resist roll that the mob made and truely resisted the spell. Just because it doesn't say miss, doesn't mean it's not a miss.
Here's links about how spell casting works:
Spell Hit
Blizzard DOES call it a resist. There's no 'miss' on spells in-game. For whatever reason, they decided to call it 'resist' rather than 'miss'. Yes, for all intents and purposes, it's the same as a miss for a physical attack (with the exception that you can't get below 1% with spells). It is still not CALLED miss.
Why you insist on repeating this ad nauseam I do not understand. This will be my last post on this subject.
I believe weapon skill actually does play a part in PvP -- something to do with lowering your crit chance, I think? I haven't researched it, I simply stumbled across an article on it a few months back.
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09-13-2008, 11:24 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-13-2008, 11:25 PM by Swiss Mercenary.)
Quote:Blizzard DOES call it a resist. There's no 'miss' on spells in-game. For whatever reason, they decided to call it 'resist' rather than 'miss'. Yes, for all intents and purposes, it's the same as a miss for a physical attack (with the exception that you can't get below 1% with spells). It is still not CALLED miss.
Why you insist on repeating this ad nauseam I do not understand. This will be my last post on this subject.
I believe weapon skill actually does play a part in PvP -- something to do with lowering your crit chance, I think? I haven't researched it, I simply stumbled across an article on it a few months back.
In the beta, spell resists are now called misses.
Quote:Yellow was an actual resist roll that the mob made and truely resisted the spell.
Which mobs could do even with 0% resistance, due to the presence of partial resists (The caster equivalent of glancing blows).
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September 16 News
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Blizzard has announced Wrath of the Lich King's release date! It's going to be Nov 13, 2008. You still have a bit of time to get whatever preparations you are planning out of the way, though!
For those not in the beta, you can get a taste of it as Patch 3.0.2 is live on the PTR's!
There is a ton of data out there, pretty much everywhere you go is inundated with news from the Beta, or Patch 3.0.2 being on the PTR's. Due to the kindess of one of our fellow Lurkers, a Beta Key did arrive in my email box! So I've been wandering around the Death Knight starting area, getting a feel for the Phasing technology I mentioned a few news posts back. I won't go too much into it, but it is really making me feel like I'm a useful, integral part of the storyline that is the DK starting zone. Since I'm very, veyr fond of lore, this is a fantastic step, I feel.I'd highly recommend everyone start up a Death Knight and play through the starting zone at some point, for some amazing storyline.
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09-23-2008, 05:46 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-23-2008, 01:32 PM by Mirajj.)
September 23 News
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Groups of Words starts us out today with some thoughts on things that are often close to Lurkers hearts, but tend to be a rarity in Blizzard's ranks. A CM who likes to talk about the reasoning behind the developing that's going on. GhostCrawler is pretty much any theorycrafter's best friend, and she's often got a lot to say. Sadly, what she has to say is often lost in the drek of the official fora, but her posts by themselves are good reads.
I've occasionally thought about a marathon raid day, and have even led a few marathon raids pre-TBC myself. This crew breaks it down though, as to how long it'd take to go from Kara to victory over Kil'Jaeden. They end up with a back end estimate of 25 hours. The folks in the comments point out that it'd actually be done faster than that, as a group that can clear Sunwell (especially in a 1 shot of the bosses) isn't going to need an hour for Gruul.
While it started out as my announcement post on the release date of Wrath of the Lich King,it has turned into a discussion on the future of WoW, and where it's heading. What kind of gas it's got left in the tank, who's left to fight, that sort of thing.
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Ghostcrawler is a 'she', actually.
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Hm, that's what I get for doing this really, really late at night.;)
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New beta patch being loaded right now.
Tigole listed some tidbits on it here, but mostly vague.
The awesomeness of his tidbits was this one:
Quote:--Many class changes. You won't like the ones made to your own class but you'll think the changes made to the 9 other classes are all overpowered.
What a great patch note =)
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Well, he was right, I'm not too pleased about the changes to my class, but eh. However, I am confused by this: "your damage done by your Mind Flay and Mind Blast is increased by 2/4/6/8/10% if your target is afflicted by Mind Flay". Buh? Is this a cross-toon buff? Obviously it buffs my own mind flay (since the target is afflicted by mind flay while I'm casting it), but how do I get the bonus to mind blast? Only if someone else is casting flay? So, now if there's 2 shadowpriests in the group, we need to coordinate blasting and flaying so we alternate? How stupid is that?
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Quote:Well, he was right, I'm not too pleased about the changes to my class, but eh. However, I am confused by this: "your damage done by your Mind Flay and Mind Blast is increased by 2/4/6/8/10% if your target is afflicted by Mind Flay". Buh? Is this a cross-toon buff? Obviously it buffs my own mind flay (since the target is afflicted by mind flay while I'm casting it), but how do I get the bonus to mind blast? Only if someone else is casting flay? So, now if there's 2 shadowpriests in the group, we need to coordinate blasting and flaying so we alternate? How stupid is that?
I haven't read any of these changes, but my initial response to this item would be that it's just a typo and the second case of Mind Flay is probably supposed to be SW:P or one of the other shadow debuffs such as Misery, etc.
This seems to be a change with the intent to scale shadow damage better into the end game whereas it doesn't scale well at all right now.
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Quote:New beta patch being loaded right now.
Tigole listed some tidbits on it here, but mostly vague.
The awesomeness of his tidbits was this one:
What a great patch note =)
I do love that note.
I have a few comments on the hunter changes.
Mostly good, though explosive shot was a bit over nerfed. It's close to what I think they want but I think they toned it down too much.
Right now for survial the shot rotation that gets me the most DPS seems to be the following. Each dash represents .5s. So the 15s duration of serpent sting gets you 30 dashes. The | indicates the start of casting
Code: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5
|--E--A--E--S..SM--S..SE--S..S|
| = Fire Serpent Sting, which procs Lock N Load, giving 2 Arcane or Explosive that don't trigger the 6s shared cooldown or cost mana, this means you get 3 shots. The 2 free and then a 3rd that starts the 6s cooldown.
E = Fire Explosive
A = Fire Arcane shot
S = Start/Finish the channel of steady shot. It's a 2 s cast.
M = Fire Multi shot.
You can't actually reapply the serpent sting until there is less than 1s left on it's time if you try you get a "A more powerful effect is active"
Now, yesterday before the patch, explosive shot was way more powerful than Arcane and you would use it for all 3 of the shots. But now on a single target explosive has to have the 2s to deliver it's charge to keep up. If there are 2 targets to get hit by the damage from explosive you would want to fire it for all 3 shots.
You could also refresh the sting earlier and you would actually want to do instead of that last steady shot. Now you can't. So your timings are right on the wall and any lag or latency is going to cost you a steady shot. I often end up not getting it off, or getting it off and losing a second or so of sting time.
You do always want some sting up not just because it will give you a lock and load proc now but because you'll likely have the talent that gives you 3% damage boost to all damage you do.
You don't really have to worry about autshot. It's unlinked and it will fire off as it should if a bit syncopated. It won't fire when casting but it seems to store the shot and keep the timer going as normal so that if you have a 3s auto shot speed you'll have a hit and say you do an instant shot followed by a steady shot. The instant starts that 1.5s GCD and steady takes 2s to cast so you would be 4.5s after the first auto before steady fires. Well an auto will come out with that steady, and then you'll get another 1.5s later, right at 6s from starting the first auto shot.
Now I still need to do more testing on that, but I'm quite happy about that change.
It also seems that haste now does lower hunter GCD times (like it does with casters down to a minimum of 1s) and it shortens the steady shot casting time as well. This is good. This means that while it looks like you may end up with a haste cap eventually that it won't be nearly the issue it can be in TBC. I don't have much haste gear on my hunter to test with and haven't grabbed a friendly shaman to check either but it's looking very good overall.
I just wish that explosive was clearly better than arcane all the time unless you had to worry about CC.
And yes I realize some of the stuff I'm mentioning has likely been detailed elsewhere already (the autoshot stuff) but as I've mentioned I haven't really dug around too much on EJ or other sources to really get into the mechanics.
Besides with a patch like every week I'm always having to respec and things change enough that it would invalidate some of my knowledge anyway. :)
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Quote:I just wish that explosive was clearly better than arcane all the time unless you had to worry about CC.
And yes I realize some of the stuff I'm mentioning has likely been detailed elsewhere already (the autoshot stuff) but as I've mentioned I haven't really dug around too much on EJ or other sources to really get into the mechanics.
Well, it's easier to press one button than to be alternating. From what I can tell they are trying to force more dynamics into "rotations". I wouldn't be surprised if they change your rotation to be something you can't predict.
Look at warriors. Arms had a very set rotation in TBC (slam was much like Steady shot for hunters). However in TBC they introduced proc mechanics that enable abilities (Fury has crit bloodthirst = 1 instant slam if you do within 6 seconds... arms has rend has a chance to proc overpower even if they don't dodge and crits have 30% chance of 1 execute regardless of health levels within the next 6 seconds.)
Casters have similar if this crits, then you get this other spell free or this other spell instant cast.
I think it's an attempt to bring more skill into PvE. They are definitely trying to get rid of one-button spam, so I doubt you will see Explosive clearly superior than arcane in every situation.
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09-26-2008, 12:25 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-26-2008, 12:25 AM by Kevin.)
Quote:I think it's an attempt to bring more skill into PvE. They are definitely trying to get rid of one-button spam, so I doubt you will see Explosive clearly superior than arcane in every situation.
Yeah I get that but even without adding arcane in I'm already tracking cooldowns and using 4 other shots as well as dealing with a proc action that gives me some free shots. :) I was just hoping to avoid using 5 since I don't think any of the other specs will be.
I think marks and beast will still only be using 4 I haven't tested those specs.
Oh and this is at L70. I'll end up with 2 new shots before I get to 80. :)
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September 30 News
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There is still not much new news in the way of Diablo III, but they are filling in the Bestiary some. If you can't wait to get your hands on every bit of info, check it out and see what's new.
There is a new crew who's doing custom WoW apparel...and it looks good.
In some pretty big news, designed to help Warriors and Druids feel a little better, it's let slip that Thunder Clap and Swipe now have no target limit. This is some pretty big news, and a lot of folks are wondering what those skills will "lose" to compensate for them having their target limit removed.
Speaking of tanks, NuurAbSaal starts up a nice topic on the future look OF tanking in WotLK.
In a topic designed purely to stir things up it seems, Dan O'Halloran wonders if WoW is getting too simple. Or if that's a good thing. The arguement is that it's getting easier to do everything, which is good. After all, that means that folks are playing the game, not analyzing dps charts or memorizing boss cycle attacks. Or, is the complexity of the game at the high part of it's appeal?
Groups of Words has an article that is a rather thought provoking read. Game vs. Lore. The addition of the new motorcycle mount has a lot of folks up in arms, though whether for or against it is the question. Some folks think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Others claim it's ruined the game so much for them that they are quitting. Both seem a bit extreme to me. I don't like the bikes (the look or the sound they make), but hey...in a game with a backpack that can hold several full suits of armor and has a spaceship crashing into the planet I'm on, I can allow for some leeway in that there may, just may, be a mortorbike or two tearing around.
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Two short replies:
Quote:This is some pretty big news, and a lot of folks are wondering what those skills will "lose" to compensate for them having their target limit removed.
I doubt anything major. Threat is less of a focus in the expansion, and the developers were sick of everyone wanting Paladins to run the easy content.
Quote: In a topic designed purely to stir things up it seems, Dan O'Halloran wonders if WoW is getting too simple. Or if that's a good thing. The arguement is that it's getting easier to do everything, which is good. After all, that means that folks are playing the game, not analyzing dps charts or memorizing boss cycle attacks. Or, is the complexity of the game at the high part of it's appeal?
Certain mechanics are being made easier, because they lend themselves to outside-the-game performance (metagaming) affecting results more than how you actually play. Don't be surprised if the boss fights are (eventually, not in Naxx) made harder to compensate.
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Quote:Two short replies:
I doubt anything major. Threat is less of a focus in the expansion, and the developers were sick of everyone wanting Paladins to run the easy content.
I have to say after tanking for the last - what year? - I'm happy that they're increasing the targets it will affect. After a night of tanking heroics and raids my shoulders and back are usually screaming in pain from all the tab targeting and frantic spamming of buttons.
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Quote:I have to say after tanking for the last - what year? - I'm happy that they're increasing the targets it will affect. After a night of tanking heroics and raids my shoulders and back are usually screaming in pain from all the tab targeting and frantic spamming of buttons.
And from the paladin point of view...I want a freaking night off now and then. Let the warriors and druids tank Hyjal trash for once =)
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Quote:And from the paladin point of view...I want a freaking night off now and then. Let the warriors and druids tank Hyjal trash for once =)
We've done it lately with a holy paladin in tank gear and the warriors and druids grabbing the big stuff. We're lucky in that we have an excellent player in the paladin and some of the best tanks I've ever encountered (barring myself of course - I'm pretty nub).
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