Community College "Free for all"

[kandrathe]

The other less horrific news of late.

Obama to propose two free years of community college for students.

"So far, that plan doesn’t have an official price tag — other than “significant,” according to White House officials. If all 50 states participate, the proposal could benefit 9 million students each year and save students an average of $3,800 in tuition, the White House said."

Which sort of sounds like 9 million students per year x $3800 which is in the neighborhood of 34.2 billion dollars. In perspective, this is about half the cost of our national food stamps program.

There is no talk of means testing this, yet. But, I'd assume we're not going to subsidize rich peoples kids.

And, most people may not know that in the US, most college is already "discounted" by between 30% and 45% -- that means that the price you see is not the price they pay. The better academic students and those with other factors influence the discount of individual financial aid packages.

Also, for Perkins Loans there is a built in forgiveness clause -- for those that;

• Volunteer in the Peace Corps or ACTION program (including VISTA)
• Teacher
• Member of the U.S. armed forces (serving in area of hostilities)
• Nurse or medical technician
• Law enforcement or corrections officer
• Head Start worker
• Child or family services worker
• Professional provider of early intervention services

For the other Direct student loans (Stafford -- which by law can only offered by our federal government), there is also an out clause for anyone who can make the case they have been a public servant and who have made 120 minimum payments on their loans (so after 10 years).

In the US, the community college has a reputation of pretty much teaching at a secondary school level, for students who didn't pay attention the first time. It may be a place to get "Gen Ed" -- ( the freshmen/sophomore general education requirements) out of the way. The hard core academic secondary school students are getting their "Gen Ed's" done in high school. We see an increasing number of "First time to college" students with more than 2 years of college work completed in dual enrollment courses, advance placement or CLEP testing out of them.

I did some research a few years back, comparing US higher education to Europe. In Europe, the percentage of students who are accepted and attempt the University is lower, but the percentage who succeed is much higher. The end result is that as a proportion of the population, the same amount emerge in the US and Europe with degrees. In the US, almost 2/3rds of all high school students will attempt college or university, and almost 1/2 of them (1/3) will not succeed. This results in a very high amount of wasted spending for a credential they did not get. Often these are students who are accepted, but are marginally prepared. I would propose a different course for an massive infusion of money for high school graduates. It would be to direct it more towards improving the accreditation, credibility and prestige of vocational, and professional programs (the trades).

TL;DR In a nutshell, its not that our kids don't try to go to college, it's that they don't succeed. One issues is that our public education system fails to prepare our kids for higher education. On the other hand, an argument is that some drop out due to financial burdens. At my work place, the 'A' and 'B' students find a way and have more eager support to get it done.

[eppie]

The idea I had about the american system is that there are much more colleges and universities per capita than in Europe. But you have in every state a handful of good ones and the rest is soso. Further you have the real top (the Harvards and standfords) and they of course suck the rest dry when it comes to good students.

In the Netherlands tuition fees for real university is around 1500 euro per year I think (it was something like 1000 when I studied), but this is of course far below cost-price.

But of course giving away to years of college for free doesn't really cost 34 billion right. It is juts that a few million people will start working 2 years later (and paying tex 2 years later).

[kandrathe]

Well, it might cost $34 billion in tuition and such. A local community college here charges about $180/credit hour. Assume a 12-16 credit load so 14 on average would be @2520 per semester for tuition. The average annual price for a "good" university depends on whether its public or private. Public Universities typically are subsidized more by the State, but that is being trimmed back during this recession. For example, the U of M, here in Minnesota charges a flat rate $6,030.00 for residents per semester for 13 or more credits. Private colleges are typically around $20,000 per semester (but, have more discounting for exceptional students).

But, good point about delaying them from getting into the work world. I view it as sort of a wash really economically. The direct cost is borne by the student who is not in a vocation. This creates more demand for this level of lower skilled labor, increasing slightly the indirect price of labor. But, it also creates more demand for employment and salaries in the educational fields. If the price of the two years of 'not working' is borne by the government, then yes, tax payers will pay more taxes. If it is borne by loans taken out by students (or their parents), then the risk is all from the consumer who would also expect to get higher salaries due to their improved vocational value (getting a professionally oriented degree).

The nebulous part for me are those student who pursue "higher learning" which is not vocationally oriented. That is, which on does not directly yield an economic ROI. I guess one example might be History, or Philosophy. I'd like to say here that I'm a huge proponent of the classical liberal education for its own sake, in promoting civilization, and an educated populace. The question I see our government is asking typically is; "Should the government fund education that does not return the productivity later, as expressed by wages?"