Starcraft II Bombshell

[Chesspiece_face]

I'm not sure what to say. I'm pretty taken aback.

Blizzcon Announcement

[Quark]

The most important part, for single-player:

The original StarCraft, according to Pardo, had 32 missions; 12 for the Terrans, and 10 each for the Zerg and the Protoss. According to Blizzard, each of these StarCraft II games will consist of more than 30 missions.

I was listening to the panel yesterday when the news dropped, and before he said 3 titles it was basically "more, more, more". Branching missions. Choice of upgrades. More characters, each more fleshed out than before. In between missions almost sounded like Wing Commander 3 on crack.

The most important part, for multi-player:

Pardo explained that the multiplayer remains relatively unchanged; each StarCraft II game will have a fully functioning multiplayer suite with all three races playable. "[In] the shipping product, all three races will be fully featured and balanced in gameplay and also in content," he said. We asked whether that meant the multiplayer suite in each game would be exactly the same, and he said, "More than likely, the successive products will add multiplayer content; we haven't decided right now what that is." That brought up the question as to how multiplayer would work if some players only buy the first game while others only buy the second or third games. He said that they haven't made any determinations yet as to how that would work.

Devil in the details here. We'll have to see what they decide to do. I know I'll buy all three anyway because I like the story, ya know?

[RTM]

Interesting! Fleshing out the world for a "World of Starcraft" MMO, maybe?

[Quark]

Interesting! Fleshing out the world for a "World of Starcraft" MMO, maybe?

Well, MMO-Champ said yesterday the unannounced project is an MMO in a new world, and it's a long way away. I somehow doubt Blizz would go for 3 MMOs.

[--Pete]

Hi,

I'm not sure what to say. I'm pretty taken aback.

Blizzcon Announcement

Or, in other words, they bit off more than they could chew. So they'll only ship a third of the game in the first box because that's all they can complete this decade. As a side effect, they'll be able to charge us three times for one game. Gotta love it, Buzzard improves on the Micro$quish marketing model. And we all damned well know we'll buy it, we'll play it, and we'll praise it. Does that say more about us or about Buzzard?

--Pete

[Quark]

Hi,
Or, in other words, they bit off more than they could chew. So they'll only ship a third of the game in the first box because that's all they can complete this decade. As a side effect, they'll be able to charge us three times for one game. Gotta love it, Buzzard improves on the Micro$quish marketing model. And we all damned well know we'll buy it, we'll play it, and we'll praise it. Does that say more about us or about Buzzard?

--Pete

If you get the same time of fun gameplay out of just the Terran campaign as all of SC, why would you care that it came by itself?

People automatically assuming this sucks is exactly why episodic content has been a disaster.

[Sir_Die_alot]

If you get the same time of fun gameplay out of just the Terran campaign as all of SC, why would you care that it came by itself?

People automatically assuming this sucks is exactly why episodic content has been a disaster.

I don't know that is possible on the single player side. The cool part of the single player WAS playing each side for part of the storyline, for me at least. I have to agree with Pete and I know I'm a sap because I swore I would never pay monthly fee for a video game... Damn you warcrack. Damn you.:wacko:

[Archon_Wing]

Gah. I personally don't care much for the single player campaign, and if one wanted to get acquainted with the game mechanics before going online there's always AI skirmishes. But there's quite a few friends of mine that would have enjoyed the single player campaign and they were never that interested in terrans. That might hold them back a bit. And not everyone would be that enthusiastic to buy possibly 2 expansions to play online.
You'd divide players into original, expansion I, and expansion II then? People will almost always play the latest version online; the overwhelming majoirty of sc1 battle.net games are on brood war right now, for example. So it'd almost become mandatory to upgrade otherwise you may be stuck with mostly empty rooms. Surely the fanboys will shell out the money, but I know quite a few people would be on the fence on this.

I would tend to agree with Pete, for my initial reaction to this.

[[wcip]Angel]

Yes, it's a shame we won't be able to finish the whole trio of races from the get-go, but seeing as they're using this to flesh out the story (the first one dealing with James and Sarah), I've yet to see 'the bad'. Sure, we'll have to pay more for 1 game + 2 expansion packs, but this decision is better than the two alternatives, which are either shipping a crappy game or having us wait another 10 years for SC2.

I'm optimistic! More story = happy [wcip]Angel.

[FoxBat]

I'd be fine with them trying to sell the same game with different mission three times, but they shouldn't have divided up the races like this. For many people, the campaigns do serve a tutorial purpose, especially those that weren't initially planning on multiplayer, but end up getting into it afterwards.

I think Blizzard has become addicted to the WoW cashflow. Between this and the microtransactions for D3, it looks like they are exploring ways to drain the wallets of people that won't commit to subscriptions. Being Blizzard, they will probably get away with it.

[Jester]

It's not a big issue to me. Blizzard has purchased themselves a fair bit of rope, especially where the sequel to the greatest-RTS-ever is concerned. I'm willing to let them have it, and if they hang themselves, so be it. I think it'll turn out fine. Paying for 3 games is not much more than 1 game and 2 expansions, and I'd certainly be willing to pay the extra for an expanded, enhanced single player experience. As for multiplayer, the online games I've played most, in order, are WoW, Starcraft, and Diablo II. I trust Blizzard at least as much as anyone else to deliver something that is at least worth my money, and probably quite a lot better.

-Jester

[Occhidiangela]

I'd be fine with them trying to sell the same game with different mission three times, but they shouldn't have divided up the races like this. For many people, the campaigns do serve a tutorial purpose, especially those that weren't initially planning on multiplayer, but end up getting into it afterwards.

I think Blizzard has become addicted to the WoW cashflow. Between this and the microtransactions for D3, it looks like they are exploring ways to drain the wallets of people that won't commit to subscriptions. Being Blizzard, they will probably get away with it.

Very well said, Foxbat. I pre ordered SC II in early spring. I loved how the first SC game allowed me to learn each of the three factions by the time the game was over. As a tutorial, Single Player was very well done in the crawl, walk, trot, run, sprint method of teaching/training.

Then we had all of those custome games in the SP, as well as more maps on line as people tried their hands at map building.

Darnit, thirty missions per race? Uh, can we say GRIND here? Three games? Ya mean I don't get to be a Zerg from day one if I want to? :( Not that I want to, of course . . .

I worry that I'll develop a deadly addiction to siege tanks, and have to break it, again, by the time part II comes out. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.

@ Jester: it seems that they had both of us "at hello." :D

We pre ordered shortly after the announcement and videos came out. My son and I were salivating even then . . .

Occhi

[Kevin]

Very well said, Foxbat. I pre ordered SC II in early spring. I loved how the first SC game allowed me to learn each of the three factions by the time the game was over. As a tutorial, Single Player was very well done in the crawl, walk, trot, run, sprint method of teaching/training.

Then we had all of those custome games in the SP, as well as more maps on line as people tried their hands at map building.

Darnit, thirty missions per race? Uh, can we say GRIND here? Three games? Ya mean I don't get to be a Zerg from day one if I want to? :( Not that I want to, of course . . .

I worry that I'll develop a deadly addiction to siege tanks, and have to break it, again, by the time part II comes out. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.

@ Jester: it seems that they had both of us "at hello." :D

We pre ordered shortly after the announcement and videos came out. My son and I were salivating even then . . .

Occhi

I'm really kind of at this point myself. I like the idea of expanded single player, but I really liked being able to get the basics of all the races. I tend to be the "whatever else" guy at the LAN parties or for the battle.net stuff if playing as a team. If A was Terran and B was Zerg I'd be Protoss, if A and B were both Protoss, I'd tend to be Terran (since I felt 1 terran complimented 2 toss better than 1 zerg). If there was any terran player but no zerg player I'd go with zerg (terran medics + zerg anything was really really strong because the medics could heal just about anything, watch a fully upgraded ultralisk with 2 medics and maybe one or two other ground forces to help with swarms go to town. :)).

I'll still be able to become a strong toss/zerg player without the single player stuff, but it won't be as easy and I'll miss the a story the flowed through all 3 races at a quicker pace. But again I like the idea of branching stories (I actually tried to develop one for SC and for Free Space 2 at one point, but the way the engines worked it was a lot of effort to get real branches and not some fake little branch that puts you in the same place). Though I don't mind the railroad method either. :)

I didn't pre order because I'm not there financially right now, but I wanted to. The previews really made me say "Wow it's still starcraft for sure, but it's better". Warcraft 3 did NOT make me say that. Warcraft 3, was not Warcraft 2 but better, it was a different concept, one that was significantly different that was pushed back a bit to be more like the older War 2 game. War 2 you could fairly safely say was Warcraft but better though there were some big changes (just like SC1 vs SC2) but the idea and style was still pretty much the same.

I foolishly hope this means that each game will come out at a lower price point since they know that they'll get 2 more full games out of the same engine, but it won't because they know the market will happily take the standard game price point. Oh well. :)

[oldmandennis]

They really need to implement a rump campaign for each race in each box then. 5 missions maybe, skipping the here is how to click one, and obviously the jailbreak type ones. A mission that focuses on ground units, one that focuses on air, one that focuses on specials, one that puts it all together, then one that challenges you. This would be the tutorial for the other races to get online.

Also on the cost issue... maybe 30$ "online packs" that give you the medic or w/e to bring your box upto the latest and greatest for online play, but don't give you the singleplayer stuff that you need to play 50$ for. Remember that you pretty much needed to shell out for the xpac to play online for both SC and WC3. Total cost for SC2 would be 110$ if you wanted 30 missions and full online, vs 100$ for 45(?) missions + full online in SC1 vs 150$ for full online and 90 missions - probably that close enough. The key should be that releasing the other 2 boxes precludes doing an expansion for a while. Obviously if a 50$ terran expansion hits about the same time as the zerg box, that's just being exploitative.

[Lissa]

Well, MMO-Champ said yesterday the unannounced project is an MMO in a new world, and it's a long way away. I somehow doubt Blizz would go for 3 MMOs.

What are you considering their third MMO? And also, why not? Given the success of WoW, they could have quite a number of cashcows out of this.

[--Pete]

Hi,

Given the success of WoW, they could have quite a number of cashcows out of this.

Right. To add to that, there are people for whom an elf/dwarf/orc fantasy world isn't appealing but a si-fi world is. And WoW will not last forever, so Buzzard needs to look ahead. If Buzzard claims a product is a long way from market, then the question is, "How many generations?";)

--Pete

[Mavfin]

Hi,
Right. To add to that, there are people for whom an elf/dwarf/orc fantasy world isn't appealing but a si-fi world is. And WoW will not last forever, so Buzzard needs to look ahead. If Buzzard claims a product is a long way from market, then the question is, "How many generations?";)

--Pete

Exactly. And, as far as pricing, I'll have to say Blizzard has done one thing no other game company has done for me yet. Every game I've bought from them has given me more than enough enjoyment to have been worth it. Other companies have not had such a sterling record.

And yes, I said I'd never pay-to-play. So much for that. Four years of WoW coming up on 1/28/09.

[Archon_Wing]

While we await SC2, Blizzard has bothered to a few nifty little features to sc1. If they will support sc2 for that long, then I wouldn't worry too much about it!

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessag...?topic_id=82826

Feature Changes

- In-game chat is now saved in replays. Note: whispers are not saved.
- Hitting the Escape key while in the chat room will clear your typed text.
- "/reply" (or just "/r") will send a whisper to person who most recently whispered you.

Bug Fixes

- Fixed localization issues with "from" and "to" in whispers.
- Starcraft now only uses as much CPU as it needs to run smoothly.

Exploits

- Fixed an exploit which allowed Zerg players to gain minerals through mutations.
- Fixed an exploit which allowed Zerg players to recycle an upgrading building.
- Fixed an exploit which allowed Zerg players to extend their creep with a drone.
- Fixed an exploit which allowed Zerg players to move Drones over impassable terrain.
- Fixed an exploit which allowed Terran players to drop a nuke anywhere on the map.
- Fixed an exploit which allowed players to pause the game while in the pre-game lobby.

The b.net website has not been updated, but simply connecting to b.net should work.\