Patch 1.05 Preview
#61
(10-18-2012, 01:09 AM)MongoJerry Wrote:
(10-17-2012, 02:58 AM)Chesspiece_face Wrote: Gold output is HUGELY increased... I found 2 Legendaries within 25 minutes of logging in. RNG is RNG though and it will have hot streaks and cold streaks.

More gold = inflationary. More items = deflationary. This means prices for items should stay roughly the same.

However, more likely what will happen is that items we used to think were pretty good will be considered "junk" and probably won't sell at all. Items we used to think were really good will drop in price and end up at the same price we use to pay for items we considered "pretty good." Meanwhile, the new really really good stuff will go for hundreds of millions.

This is fine though. True, if everyone finds good stuff, then that good stuff won't be valued highly. However, people can live with the satisfaction of finding their own stuff and not regarding rare drops as extra large gold piles that will contribute to their next marginal upgrade.

And I feel it's how it should be. The truly valued min/max stuff is expensive while everything else is very affordable like in D2.

If the economy collapses, I won't shed a tier... it was dead to me when bots ran rampant anyways. If gold gets devalued to the point of worthlessness, then maybe those bots will find somewhere else to go.
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#62
(10-17-2012, 05:11 PM)Spangles Wrote: My CM wizard had the same experience. MP4 seemed so much easier than on the PTR that I farmed an Inferno Machine in MP5, with no problems. Other than the Keywarden in Stonefort, who I think is a bit overtuned.

That guy is ridiculously overtuned. I jumped into MP7 tonight and was able to easily handle everything up to him. It obviously takes time to work through champ packs but I had no times that I felt in great danger. The keywarden, however, was instant death. To reasonably fight this guy you need to turn down the MP level at least 2 or 3 degrees below what you can handle for any other encounter. Illusionist + chain casting Icy Grasp of the Dead that continuously covers the entire screen is insane. The design of the fight is extremely fun but having a damage source that can essentially cover the screen and can layer on top of itself AND slows you so you cannot easily move away is just silly.
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#63
I'm back. Still a bit bewildered about it, too. I'm not sure how, but it's a fucking diablo, and yes I mean it, a fucking diablo game. /shakes head
Hardcore Diablo 1/2/3/4 & Retail/Classic WoW adventurer.
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#64
(10-19-2012, 07:40 PM)Frag Wrote: I'm back. Still a bit bewildered about it, too. I'm not sure how, but it's a fucking diablo, and yes I mean it, a fucking diablo game. /shakes head

I'm very interested in this statement. Is the implication that the game inherently has that old diablo draw and you are bewildered about the fact that you are being drawn back in? Or is the implication that the new patch has uplifted the game to a diablo status and you are bewildered that they were able to do that from the previous status of the game?

Either way hope you enjoy your time back with the game.
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#65
(10-20-2012, 10:20 PM)Chesspiece_face Wrote:
(10-19-2012, 07:40 PM)Frag Wrote: I'm back. Still a bit bewildered about it, too. I'm not sure how, but it's a fucking diablo, and yes I mean it, a fucking diablo game. /shakes head

I'm very interested in this statement. Is the implication that the game inherently has that old diablo draw and you are bewildered about the fact that you are being drawn back in? Or is the implication that the new patch has uplifted the game to a diablo status and you are bewildered that they were able to do that from the previous status of the game?

Either way hope you enjoy your time back with the game.
It's that they managed to make it feel like Diablo 2 redux, and much less like Diablo 3 purely by only changing two things (basically). They're allowing us to pick our difficulty and giving us something to grind towards endgame. Those are simple but yet feels sooo much better. That brand of subtlety isn't something I give this design team much credit for.

Cheers.
Hardcore Diablo 1/2/3/4 & Retail/Classic WoW adventurer.
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#66
I'm rather enjoying monster power while leveing in large part because you can give yourself challenging trash without the elites being too overwhelming. Not sure how that will hold up in inferno but it's making the leveling experience better than prepatch inferno for challenge.

MP 10 might be just what is needed for a short-term ironman style challenge too.
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#67
(10-20-2012, 10:20 PM)Chesspiece_face Wrote:
(10-19-2012, 07:40 PM)Frag Wrote: I'm back. Still a bit bewildered about it, too. I'm not sure how, but it's a fucking diablo, and yes I mean it, a fucking diablo game. /shakes head

I'm very interested in this statement. Is the implication that the game inherently has that old diablo draw and you are bewildered about the fact that you are being drawn back in? Or is the implication that the new patch has uplifted the game to a diablo status and you are bewildered that they were able to do that from the previous status of the game?

Either way hope you enjoy your time back with the game.

I posted the following on the b.net forums, when people were complaining that 1.05 would wreck the economy.

Quote:
Sacrifice economy so people can loot their own gear and maybe someday wear stuff they found themselves, and not have to be at the mercy of gold botther's price fixing?

Sure, I came to play a game, not attempt to make a pretty penny every now and then. I don't care if I don't sell another item on the AH anymore as long as I can find things worth keeping.

I remember when the RMAH came out and you could literally put any junk out there and get a few bucks from it. Sure that was amusing but I didn't complain when the market tightened. If I wanted money, I'd be better off in the middle of the street with a cup in front of me.

High end gear will always be valuable. It will be like in Diablo 2 where trading for gear to beat the game ezpz will be cheap but the perfect rolls will be collectors items and that is what everyone strives to one day get, not the marginal upgrade after 1000 hours of grinding.

Besides, in 1.04 you could gear to beat the game for less than a million. And 1.04 inferno was easy, so for most players, they didn't need to bat an eye at the better items. I mean what would they use them for? Farm faster? For even more crappy drops?

Now, the goalpost is a lot higher with MP and now people may have a reason to want to upgrade the gear. Meanwhile the casuals are steamrolling Mp0-3 with gear they earned/found and could care less. They have access to the best drops to the game. If they want a better chance, they they will have to put some effort into gearing up and move up. But it's not required.

It is not like release anymore. Shutting the masses out from inferno act 2 and beyond was a disaster since they were denied the best loot and with the low level cap, they had no reason to play. Now, whether it is Mp 0 Inferno or Mp10 Inferno, any fool has a chance of the best loot in the game. Of course, the godly will be able to do the higher MP levels and thus get far better drops. That's how it should be. Sure not anyone can do ubers but it's only 1 item, which is miles apart from the situation from 1.02 and 1.03 where the gulf between rich and poor was massive. 1.03 was arguably the worst, since the content was easier but the repair costs penalized certain people from merely playing the game.

TL;DR This feels more like Diablo, not a crappy watered down version of WOW.
With great power comes the great need to blame other people.
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#68
I have mixed feelings about the patch. There's a lot of good, which has been pretty well covered. I really wish the game had been released with the current design principles, instead of totally warped - there are some weird gaps now.

I gave my old barbarian a spin. I liked the inventory management system better when I was only picking up level 63 rares. It's great that it only takes 1 sec instead of 3 secs to identify a rare, but I go back to town to do this more than 3 times as often. It's still almost all junk.

I then put all my items in the stash and started hell act 1 with only the weapons armor from the first vendor and the rings/amulets from the 2nd vendor. It was a little rough at first, but surprisingly doable. I've quickly found items that make the game seem pretty easy. Granted 27 paragon levels and access to valor stack is causing me to find more items than a character playing the first time through, but wow hell seems easy now. I wonder what the point of having 4 difficulty levels is if the first 3 are all easy.

I had been playing a set of characters of each class untwinked except that they were sharing items and using the blacksmith. Things were getting interesting in nightmare - now there doesn't seem to be a point to that. It was interesting actually getting use out of the blacksmith - now it seems pointless.

Playing normal mode at a high monster power is now an interesting variation. I like how the game feels with just scary regular monsters and no champion packs with brutal combinations. Too bad your skills are so limited at the low levels.

(10-21-2012, 05:20 PM)Archon_Wing Wrote: I posted the following on the b.net forums, when people were complaining that 1.05 would wreck the economy.

Quote:
Sacrifice economy so people can loot their own gear and maybe someday wear stuff they found themselves, and not have to be at the mercy of gold botther's price fixing?

Sure, I came to play a game, not attempt to make a pretty penny every now and then. I don't care if I don't sell another item on the AH anymore as long as I can find things worth keeping.

I remember when the RMAH came out and you could literally put any junk out there and get a few bucks from it. Sure that was amusing but I didn't complain when the market tightened. If I wanted money, I'd be better off in the middle of the street with a cup in front of me.

High end gear will always be valuable. It will be like in Diablo 2 where trading for gear to beat the game ezpz will be cheap but the perfect rolls will be collectors items and that is what everyone strives to one day get, not the marginal upgrade after 1000 hours of grinding.

Besides, in 1.04 you could gear to beat the game for less than a million. And 1.04 inferno was easy, so for most players, they didn't need to bat an eye at the better items. I mean what would they use them for? Farm faster? For even more crappy drops?

Now, the goalpost is a lot higher with MP and now people may have a reason to want to upgrade the gear. Meanwhile the casuals are steamrolling Mp0-3 with gear they earned/found and could care less. They have access to the best drops to the game. If they want a better chance, they they will have to put some effort into gearing up and move up. But it's not required.

It is not like release anymore. Shutting the masses out from inferno act 2 and beyond was a disaster since they were denied the best loot and with the low level cap, they had no reason to play. Now, whether it is Mp 0 Inferno or Mp10 Inferno, any fool has a chance of the best loot in the game. Of course, the godly will be able to do the higher MP levels and thus get far better drops. That's how it should be. Sure not anyone can do ubers but it's only 1 item, which is miles apart from the situation from 1.02 and 1.03 where the gulf between rich and poor was massive. 1.03 was arguably the worst, since the content was easier but the repair costs penalized certain people from merely playing the game.

TL;DR This feels more like Diablo, not a crappy watered down version of WOW.
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#69
(10-21-2012, 07:11 PM)ErickTheRed Wrote: I have mixed feelings about the patch. There's a lot of good, which has been pretty well covered. I really wish the game had been released with the current design principles, instead of totally warped - there are some weird gaps now.

I gave my old barbarian a spin. I liked the inventory management system better when I was only picking up level 63 rares. It's great that it only takes 1 sec instead of 3 secs to identify a rare, but I go back to town to do this more than 3 times as often. It's still almost all junk.

I can't say that was my experience. Yes, there was a lot of junk but the percentage of good stuff is higher. Stuff I'd consider giving to my friends, instead of just gold to gain from the AH.

I was picking up only yellow 63s by the end of 1.04, but to me that was a sign of defeat. An acceptance that 95% of the items are useless, and arguably the remaining 5% is mostly trash too. Now anything can be great. Jewelry is amazing and none are worth passing up as it should be. As it should be. I don't like forgone conclusions where you leave stuff on the floor because it might as well have existed.

Quote:I then put all my items in the stash and started hell act 1 with only the weapons armor from the first vendor and the rings/amulets from the 2nd vendor. It was a little rough at first, but surprisingly doable. I've quickly found items that make the game seem pretty easy. Granted 27 paragon levels and access to valor stack is causing me to find more items than a character playing the first time through, but wow hell seems easy now. I wonder what the point of having 4 difficulty levels is if the first 3 are all easy.

I agree that normal is too easy even for untwinked, but for hell I think it was fine. In any game, when you outlevel and outgear the content so severely, it will be trivial. If you entered hell in 1.04 as a plvl 27, that would have the same effect. That's not the fault of the difficulty itself though, and monster power can even out things.
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#70
(10-21-2012, 10:56 PM)Archon_Wing Wrote: I agree that normal is too easy even for untwinked, but for hell I think it was fine. In any game, when you outlevel and outgear the content so severely, it will be trivial. If you entered hell in 1.04 as a plvl 27, that would have the same effect. That's not the fault of the difficulty itself though, and monster power can even out things.

But I wasn't outgearing the content. As far as I know the only benefit being overleveled gave me is 81 str, 54 vit, and the better vit scaling from being level 60 instead of 50. More magic find help find new items of course, but that's partially made up for by only doing partial clears. On the other hand the gear that I started with was literally the first item the vendor had to offer in each slot. Two of the items were white and several might as well have been since they had no useful stat. By the end of nightmare a character will have gear with vit + primary stat in every slot and a third useful affix scattered on some other pieces. That should more than make up for the any stats I had through paragon levels.
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#71
(10-21-2012, 07:11 PM)ErickTheRed Wrote: I gave my old barbarian a spin. I liked the inventory management system better when I was only picking up level 63 rares. It's great that it only takes 1 sec instead of 3 secs to identify a rare, but I go back to town to do this more than 3 times as often.

I never turned to passing up rares and singling out the ilvl 63's in previous patches. Every bit of gold was of value for me. I'm also running around with 45 pickup radius so not a single piece goes to waste. I thought making gold was easy in the old patches. Now that every rare sells for 1500-2500 the amount of gold I can make just from vendoring rares has probably tripled. Now add in the fact that Blues will now sell for 600-1300 and they are worth picking up as well. Instead of filling your inventory and coming out with 3k if you're lucky you can fill up on Blues and walk away with a cool 30k. And Blues fall like rain! I started picking up Blues over half way through an Act III run last night and ended up making about 1.8 million for the run. If I were to do a full Act III run picking up and vendoring everything I wouldn't be surprised at 4 million a run. It's a lot of extra time going back to town, but oh boy the profit! It's also a nice set-up if they ever make crafting more beneficial. You can DE all your crap rares instead of vendoring them and make your cash just from Blues.

On a different note, the new shrines that boost your movespeed are crazy. It is seriously difficult to control your character moving at +50% movespeed. Reminds me of the D2 Frenzy Barb days tearing around barely able to target an enemy.
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#72
(10-18-2012, 05:22 AM)Chesspiece_face Wrote:
(10-17-2012, 05:11 PM)Spangles Wrote: My CM wizard had the same experience. MP4 seemed so much easier than on the PTR that I farmed an Inferno Machine in MP5, with no problems. Other than the Keywarden in Stonefort, who I think is a bit overtuned.

That guy is ridiculously overtuned. I jumped into MP7 tonight and was able to easily handle everything up to him. It obviously takes time to work through champ packs but I had no times that I felt in great danger. The keywarden, however, was instant death. To reasonably fight this guy you need to turn down the MP level at least 2 or 3 degrees below what you can handle for any other encounter. Illusionist + chain casting Icy Grasp of the Dead that continuously covers the entire screen is insane. The design of the fight is extremely fun but having a damage source that can essentially cover the screen and can layer on top of itself AND slows you so you cannot easily move away is just silly.

Blizzard Wrote:We agree that he may be a little bit too challenging at the moment, and are discussing the possibility of either reducing his outgoing damage, tweaking what affixes he spawns with, or moving his spawn location (right now, he's kind of hard to avoid if you're just questing normally). We'd like to hear more from the community on the topic first, though, before we make any decisions.

Next shoe to drop: "Legendary drop rates were unintentionally set too high and were hotfixed... "
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#73
I was trying to get the plan for the infernal machine and ran into 3 elite mallet lord packs. Is this some kind of sick joke? And no plans. Given that it's already hard enough to get 5 stacks in act 4 due to it being so damned short, I really hope that the key drops in a few more runs since playing this act is a terrible waste of time.
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#74
Quote:I was trying to get the plan for the infernal machine and ran into 3 elite mallet lord packs. Is this some kind of sick joke?

Lol. I actually love the monster design in Act IV. All of the enemies do something interesting (except for the corrupted angels, fuck those guys) and fights can become really hectic when you get a nasty enemy composition. The subjugator falcon punch is a little ridiculous though, especially for melee.
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#75
Also, one thing I've noticed about prices on the AH, is that with the increased legendary drop rates it seems we've passed the critical point where some legendaries are actually cheaper than their equivalent-power rares. For example, midrange Skorns offer substantially more bang for buck than comparably powerful rare axes. I think this is because legendaries with good fixed affixes have a better chance to come out good than rares, which need to get good rolls in pretty much every slot.
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#76
Hey guys,
I'm going to be talking out of my ass here so be warned.
I've not played much, hell only about 15min, of 1.05, but i'm wondering if it's really changed enough to warrant playing again.
Currently i'm playing Borderlands 2, and enjoying it, on my 2nd play through atm, and though some places have been difficult, i haven't felt i'd run into the wall that inferno put up.
Now i know that BL2 only has 2 levels of difficulty, and D3 4, but if the goal is to eventually "Beat" the game, then inferno should be win able with ingame drops.
Now, 1.05 has changed some things like drop rates and added extra monster levels, boy where those tough, i dropped into act 1 inferno at ML5 with my Minion based WD P15 and got wiped out by a Skeletal summoner, couldn't even kill the summons fast enough to dps him at all, then tried ML2 and the first elite pack wiped me out too.
I'm wondering if anyone has comments on weather it's worth playing again, or is it mostly the same.
In my opinion, if they wanted to make the game more interesting that the monster level should have gone into negatives or 5 on the scale was the normal difficulty, so you could tone them down.
It's not a problem for me if people were wanting tougher encounters, because they have good gear, good builds and the patience to play the hard stuff, but i like to play games for fun, and i don't see anything in this patch that's added "fun" to the mix.
Perhaps i'm just one of the few, or there might be more like me that feel the same, i don't know.
Let me know what you think of it so far.

Mist
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#77
(10-23-2012, 10:42 PM)mistique Wrote: I've not played much, hell only about 15min, of 1.05, but i'm wondering if it's really changed enough to warrant playing again.

From someone with a few hours of experience in 1.05:

Inferno is vastly easier than before - at mp0. My (under-geared) barbarian was struggling a bit in late Act 1 before the patch and steamrolled up to the Butcher (2min kill achievement) with no trouble after 1.05. Also thanks to some upgrades he found on the way.

If you plan on levelling another char, that's a lot more fun now that you can adjust the game to a difficulty you want. If you have some nice twinking gear, the higher mp settings speed up the process considerably. If not, you can make it at least interesting or challenging, according to taste.

The patch sure reignited my desire to play, better drop rates all around also make the game feel more "diablo-ish", in my opinion. You'll find something you can use (depending on your current gear level, of course) faster than before.

YMMV, but I'd recommend diving back in again for a bit.

take care
Tarabulus
"I'm a cynical optimistic realist. I have hopes. I suspect they are all in vain. I find a lot of humor in that." -Pete

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#78
1.04 and now with 1.05, I'm completely enjoying D3 again. The changes they've made have really made it feel more like a Diablo game and less like WoW raiding by yourself. So much so, that I actually spent most of last weekend playing it and ended up getting a massive headache from muscle tension in my neck and shoulders. Wink The paragon levels and tweaking to inferno that they did in 1.04 was a good enough start that I reinstalled the game on my machine and occasionally dusted off the characters and played. 1.05 readjusted the drop rates (so much hate to the damned keywardens in the lower difficulties though) which gives me the "OOOH. Shinies!" happy feeling again. Consider me a happy Treesh. Finally pushed the wizard and demon hunter to 60 so the plan to get one of each SC up to 60 is back on track. Eventually there may be a get one of each HC up to 60 as well, but we'll get the barb and witch doctor up to 60 first and then see. =)
Intolerant monkey.
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#79
(10-23-2012, 10:42 PM)mistique Wrote: Let me know what you think of it so far.

Mist

It really depends on where you were before the patch. MP5 is WAYYYY higher than one should try unless you have pretty strong gear. Supposedly MP2 is approximately equivalent to what Inferno was prior to the patch. So if you drop it down to MP0 or MP1 you should notice an easier play experience.

For the most part, high geared players have settled around MP4/5 for their farming as that is the most efficient. I generally do MP5/6 for Act 1 or 2. MP4 for Act 3. And MP2 for Act 4. You can check my gear in the link in my signature and compare with what you may have.

If you're having issues at MP2 I would recommend dropping it down to 0 and just seeing how it feels. If you don't find the game interesting at that point you really can't make more adjustments than that and it might not be able to satisfy you at the moment. Or maybe you'll start tearing stuff up and begin having a good time again. Who knows?
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#80
I've enjoyed the game from day 1 so I can only say that it has kept getting better. My only 60 is not all that well geared (zero AH for my toons) so MP2 inferno is still a handful. Right now I've been farming MP5 hell and I'm wondering if anyone else is seeing what I'm seeing. I seem to get double champ/elite packs very often. It isn't that I screw up and run off into the second one, they come along with contact with the first group. Not only do I have double the mobs, but they have different abilities. So, instead of 3, I essentially have a huge mob with 6 abilities. Exciting! "People are dying out there. I don't think 'exciting' is the word I'd choose to describe it!"
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