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Crit / meteor build
07-14-2012, 12:14 AM
Post: #41
RE: Crit / meteor build
(07-14-2012 12:04 AM)MonTy Wrote:  See this screenshot for the exact stats from my last SK run: http://i.imgur.com/0ngqo.jpg

Thanks! That gives me some rough stats to shoot for. I have a ways to go before I can match those health/mitigation numbers. Are you sure you're OK with 23% crit, though? I was targeting getting around 30% before making a transition to Inferno.
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07-14-2012, 12:47 AM (This post was last modified: 07-14-2012 12:55 AM by MonTy.)
Post: #42
RE: Crit / meteor build
(07-14-2012 12:14 AM)MongoJerry Wrote:  Are you sure you're OK with 23% crit, though? I was targeting getting around 30% before making a transition to Inferno.

Yep, Diamond Skin or Frost Nova are always available 95% of the time, and that's with using Diamond Skin extremely aggressive. One of the most helpful tactics I learned is to always open with Diamond Skin in fights- don't save it for dangerous situations. This allows you to walk in, get off a ton of meteors (by then you've taken a lot of damage and DS is runnign out), so you Frost Nova, Spectral blades a few times, and rinse and repeat. It feels like cheating at times. But this tactic and build truly unlocks once you get about the following stats: 120+ Toal Arcane Power, 15+ AP on Crit, 20%+ to Crit, 10k+ DPS, 200+ Resists, 50k+ life, either LoH or high Life after Kill, decent shield, 65%+ DR. Once I got around those stats it felt like I switched a light and the build became a walking avatar of destruction (for late hell/early A1 Inferno).

The best part is every piece of my gear is very mediocre, so there's a ton of potential for upgrades. I didn't have very many resources in hardcore so I couldn't buy very good single piece items, which left me with buying average stuff all around. I can't imagine how good this build will be with 30% Crit, 1k+ LoH, 18k+ dps, high block/resists/life/etc.

edit - also, you're not as far away as you think. Thanks to the increased hell act 3 drops I was able to get this gear in 4 days just playing at night after work. It's insane how many rares drop in the quest run from Machines of War to Azmodan.
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07-14-2012, 11:23 PM (This post was last modified: 07-14-2012 11:24 PM by MongoJerry.)
Post: #43
RE: Crit / meteor build
(07-14-2012 12:47 AM)MonTy Wrote:  Yep, Diamond Skin or Frost Nova are always available 95% of the time, and that's with using Diamond Skin extremely aggressive. One of the most helpful tactics I learned is to always open with Diamond Skin in fights- don't save it for dangerous situations. This allows you to walk in, get off a ton of meteors (by then you've taken a lot of damage and DS is runnign out), so you Frost Nova, Spectral blades a few times, and rinse and repeat.

Oh, yeah, it's key to cast the Meteors before you cast your Frost Nova. The best option is to cast the Meteors in front of you where you think you will end up meeting the mobs, but if that's not possible, Diamond Skin like you said, Cast Meteor 2-3 times and *then* Frost Nova.

At this point, I'm just destroying everything in my path in Act III hell. I'm going to spend the weekend farming hell before venturing into Inferno.
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07-17-2012, 05:09 PM (This post was last modified: 07-17-2012 07:29 PM by MongoJerry.)
Post: #44
RE: Crit / meteor build
I just had my first experience in Inferno with the new build. After rescuing Cain and helping Haidrig, my partner (monk) and I headed out into the fields toward the crypts to get the crown. A boss pack of fast, desecrator, jailer (something else) scavengers swooped down on me while my partner was distracted fighting a group of zombies... and I completely pwned them. I cannot describe how good that felt, because it was exactly that kind of pack that would have destroyed any of my ranged Wizards. Instead, I just calmly meteored, frost novaed, backed off slightly to get out of the desecrate, and repeated to take them down on my own in a two player Inferno game.

Our intention had been to just to farm up to the Skeleton King, but since we were doing so well, he and I continued through the Drowned Temple. His barbarian friend then joined us, and we decided to start a new farming game -- this time doing a "Cursed Hold" run. We first cleared the crypts to get our five stacks of Nephalem Valor, went to the forest to clear a few elite packs in the area, and then finally made our way down to the cursed hold, killing the Warden, and all the elites up to the Butcher. We debated in front of the entryway whether to take on the Butcher. I told them I'd do it with them if they really wanted to do it but that I was nervous about it and would be fine with not going in. I wasn't sure about the enrage timer and all, but they assured me that they had done it themselves in under two minutes before and that the enrage timer was 3 minutes, so I finally agreed to go in. And... we pwned him. And it wasn't like I was carried by my partners either, since they had the same level dps gear as I had -- around 11k. And when I said we pwned him, I mean we just pwned him completely. I had meteors raining constantly on the Butcher with a few Spectral Blades and Frost Novas mixed in. The dps output of the build just shined in the encounter. It was so much stronger than the old Venom Hydra and fire a few Magic Missles in between running around trick. We ended up killing the Butcher in under 2 minutes, so I got that achievement as well as the killing of the Butcher in Inferno (Hardcore) achievement.

Regarding the build, Teleport has been elevated in my mind from a nice extra skill to a key part of my build. Uses of Teleport include (but are not necessarily limited to):

1. Getting out of tight situations. This one's obvious, so I won't belabor it.

2. Kiting. In situations where I have to do a "fighting retreat" such as against Frozen, Arcane, and/or Fire Chains bosses, it's so helpful to have Teleport to move back to a safe spot, cast a couple Meteors, Frost Nova to hold the mob in place, Spectral Blade once or twice, teleport back, repeat. Then, when I start running out of kiting room, I can turn the fight around by teleporting to the other side of the mob pack and go the other way -- where hopefully there are healing orbs waiting for me.

3. Staying in fights longer. I love having Teleport specifically in arcane situations. I see the arcane sentry swinging in my direction, and without Teleport, I'd have to run out of the fight to get around the beam. But instead I stay in, cast Meteor, Frost Nova, Spectral Blade, and just as the beam is about to swing into me, bam! Teleport. Arcane is the most obvious situation, but there are other similar situations as well where knowing that I have Teleport allows me to stay in a fight longer.

4. Treasure Goblins. I open a Treasure Goblin fight by teleporting to the opposite side of the Treasure Goblin to force him to run in the direction that has already been cleared of mobs. Later, I use Teleport to catch up to him if he runs too far. Using Spectral Blade only (with maybe a couple of Meteors at the moment the goblin casts his portal), I have a good track record of killing Treasure Goblins so far.
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07-17-2012, 05:25 PM (This post was last modified: 07-17-2012 07:52 PM by MonTy.)
Post: #45
RE: Crit / meteor build
(07-17-2012 05:09 PM)MongoJerry Wrote:  We ended up killing the Butcher in under 2 minutes

Very nice- I ended up killing the Butcher in Inferno Hardcore yesterday as well. The entire run was quite easy and didn't even have any of my life on hit gear on (got my crit chance over 30% now). I'm still running without teleport just fine. I haven't come close to dying but you make some good points about being able to stay in fights longer and how it's especially helpful against treasure goblins.

But I'm definitely running into that problem we talked about on Mumble. Each of my gear is too one-sided so if I remove a piece it throws everything off. Going to save up and start buying very expensive gear that has a combination of the needed stats. Getting some very good drops in my Butcher runs, so I should be able to upgrade soon.

Glad to hear things are going well and look forward to eventually doing some Butcher runs together.

*edit - removed cold blooded remark, read it wrong :P
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07-17-2012, 08:28 PM (This post was last modified: 07-17-2012 08:30 PM by NuurAbSaal.)
Post: #46
RE: Crit / meteor build
Almost 49 on my SC wizard, really looking forward to getting started with this build. I had a ton of fun with Blizzard and Arcane Orb builds so far (among other, silly choices), but they played similarly. Can't wait to go with a tanky approach for once Smile.

Is this build viable without a ton of specific gear at 50? I have +6 AP/crit on a Source, but lack +crit %, +crit damage (which would go well together, duh Tongue) and meaningful defensive stats as well. So basically I'm missing almost everything Concillian lists in his first post. Should I just go for it and give it a try or will I get totally destroyed?

Here are my stats for now:
[Image: sorcstats.jpg]

take care
Tarabulus

"I'm a cynical optimistic realist. I have hopes. I suspect they are all in vain. I find a lot of humor in that." -Pete

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07-17-2012, 10:09 PM
Post: #47
RE: Crit / meteor build
I started with 17% crit (5 from Pinpoint Barrer) and even going to 22.5 was a huge jump in effectiveness. 17 was barely cutting it and I had to back off a lot more than I do now. The entire build relies on your crit % - get it high enough and your other stats almost don't even matter, because you'll be mostly fighting frozen things that can't damage you anyhow. The lower your crit rate, the higher all your other stats need to be because you'll play more like a traditional mage.

Finally satisfied that this, in fact, a game in the Diablo series.
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07-18-2012, 06:10 AM
Post: #48
RE: Crit / meteor build
(07-17-2012 10:09 PM)ViralSpiral Wrote:  I started with 17% crit (5 from Pinpoint Barrer) and even going to 22.5 was a huge jump in effectiveness. 17 was barely cutting it and I had to back off a lot more than I do now. The entire build relies on your crit % - get it high enough and your other stats almost don't even matter, because you'll be mostly fighting frozen things that can't damage you anyhow. The lower your crit rate, the higher all your other stats need to be because you'll play more like a traditional mage.

Thanks. I'm pretty sure I could sacrifice some damage for crit, I'm using what used to be my Barbarian's top notch axe and I'm ruining monster's lives left and right. Quickly, to the Bat-AH!

take care
Tarabulus

"I'm a cynical optimistic realist. I have hopes. I suspect they are all in vain. I find a lot of humor in that." -Pete

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07-18-2012, 07:41 AM
Post: #49
RE: Crit / meteor build
(07-18-2012 06:10 AM)NuurAbSaal Wrote:  Thanks. I'm pretty sure I could sacrifice some damage for crit, I'm using what used to be my Barbarian's top notch axe and I'm ruining monster's lives left and right. Quickly, to the Bat-AH!

As Concillian said in his excellent post, the easiest and cheapest way to get some decent crit% is from gloves and shields. If you're trying to not use the AH too much, then just set aside some gold as a budget and buy a few key pieces to get yourself started. Pinpoint Barrier is also very helpful in that 50-59 range before you can get level 60 gear which tends to have even more crit% on it.
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07-18-2012, 09:37 PM
Post: #50
RE: Crit / meteor build
Hit 50 about 30 minutes ago and swapped into the +crit gear I obtained for less than 100k gold total. Felt my way around mid Act 4 and... had a blast! Here are my updated stats, notice the heavy loss of dps - it matters not!

[Image: sorcstats2.jpg]


If I find a decent pair of gloves for a reasonable price later, I could even think of ditching Pinpoint Barrier I guess. For now I'm running with the standard skills for the build (Meteor+Spectral Blades, Frost Nova, Diamond Skin + Armor) plus Venom Hydra. I already figured out that it's not wise to run into mobs that stun unprepared, other than that nothing much can touch me. I do suck at the play style though, I hope that's gonna change with some more practice Smile.

Thanks to everybody that has contributed in this thread, special thanks to Concillian!

take care
Tarabulus

"I'm a cynical optimistic realist. I have hopes. I suspect they are all in vain. I find a lot of humor in that." -Pete

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07-18-2012, 10:31 PM
Post: #51
RE: Crit / meteor build
When you hit around 54-56, hit up the AH for 1-handers and type in a level cap of 60, but look for "reduced level requirements" and get a 700+ 1-hander. I saw level reqs up to -14 (level 46) but 54-56 is about where the prices get reasonable. Trust me, it's a whole other world getting an upgrade like that and will still serve you at 60 until you're ready to plunk down for a million gold weapon.

Finally satisfied that this, in fact, a game in the Diablo series.
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07-18-2012, 10:36 PM
Post: #52
RE: Crit / meteor build
Build is continuing to go well for my hardcore wizard. At this point I've been farming Inferno for about a week and fairly satisfied with the gear. See the following links for my current gear and stats.

I have a lot of gold floating in auctions so I should be able to upgrade a few needed pieces soon in order to enter Act 2. Been switching between skills but have settled on this build. When I had more HP and less magic find I even replaced Frost Nova with Hydra- but I don't recommend it, especially in hardcore.

and thus my hunt continues for the perfect roll of crit stats ;)
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07-20-2012, 02:15 PM (This post was last modified: 07-20-2012 02:18 PM by Concillian.)
Post: #53
RE: Crit / meteor build
(07-18-2012 10:36 PM)MonTy Wrote:  I have a lot of gold floating in auctions so I should be able to upgrade a few needed pieces soon in order to enter Act 2.

A word about act 2, I've been playing there some and some in Act I. I spent about a week in Act 1 where I didn't die, or really come close and Act 2 is a big step up. I'm trying to change things to judge Act 2 difficulty in Act 1. So far running without energy armor at all and leaving a rune off diamond skin is easier than Act 2 with the full build.

Certain monster types are just death incarnate. Lacuni Huntress with horde? I couldn't even stop to cast 2 things. Bees with mortar / waller / jailor / arcane? Bees stay at range, you get close to one, the others are mortaring you.

Act 2 is not just about the damage increase, but the base monster types are in a different class. I'd honestly gear for Act III in Act I and get through Act II in a straight shot... if you can.

I was at 7.2k / 725 min resist / 40k life / 19k unbuffed DPS and dying to certain packs like those above. I parked the huntresses. Something defensive in lieu of magic weapon feels like a must have.

D3 Chars:
Concillian SC Wizard (Crit / Meteor) - Conc SC Warrior (Tornado) - Conkymonky HC Monk
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07-20-2012, 08:07 PM
Post: #54
RE: Crit / meteor build
(07-18-2012 10:31 PM)ViralSpiral Wrote:  When you hit around 54-56, hit up the AH for 1-handers and type in a level cap of 60, but look for "reduced level requirements" and get a 700+ 1-hander. I saw level reqs up to -14 (level 46) but 54-56 is about where the prices get reasonable. Trust me, it's a whole other world getting an upgrade like that and will still serve you at 60 until you're ready to plunk down for a million gold weapon.

On a whim I checked today, with my Wizard still at level 51. At 500k I thought this was a steal!

[Image: sorc.jpg]

I haven't even tried it out yet, though I imagine it should last me all the way to 60, possibly to the end of Hell as well. With Magic Weapon and Pinpoint Barrier I'm sitting at 28,5% crit chance and 6500dps (triple what I had before Big Grin), with 14 AP on crit. Going to take the girl for a spin now!

take care
Tarabulus

"I'm a cynical optimistic realist. I have hopes. I suspect they are all in vain. I find a lot of humor in that." -Pete

I'll remember you.
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07-20-2012, 08:41 PM
Post: #55
RE: Crit / meteor build
Yeah, reduced level reqs is one of the best mods out there for the 45-59 range. ilvl 60+ weapons just do so much more damage than anything lower, it's basically silly not to find an affordable one to lessen the hassle of the pre-60 levels in Hell. The AP on crits will be nice, mine didn't have anything that fancy.

Finally satisfied that this, in fact, a game in the Diablo series.
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07-20-2012, 09:06 PM
Post: #56
RE: Crit / meteor build
(07-20-2012 08:41 PM)ViralSpiral Wrote:  Yeah, reduced level reqs is one of the best mods out there for the 45-59 range. ilvl 60+ weapons just do so much more damage than anything lower, it's basically silly not to find an affordable one to lessen the hassle of the pre-60 levels in Hell. The AP on crits will be nice, mine didn't have anything that fancy.

Yeah, not sure what I was expecting but of course the game is a total face roll in Act 1 now. Not much point to the build if nothing survives a single meteor Tongue. Still, I'm having fun and working on improving my positioning and decision-making as much as possible. I do wish Diamond Skin would absorb more damage for a shorter duration though. 15k is nothing when you're trying to herd a group with a few Exploding Blobs™ in it.

take care
Tarabulus

"I'm a cynical optimistic realist. I have hopes. I suspect they are all in vain. I find a lot of humor in that." -Pete

I'll remember you.
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07-20-2012, 09:08 PM
Post: #57
RE: Crit / meteor build
(07-20-2012 02:15 PM)Concillian Wrote:  I'd honestly gear for Act III in Act I and get through Act II in a straight shot... if you can.

That's good advice, which I'll most likely end up following. I've scored some nice items over the last day or two and my stats and gear are getting closer to Act 3 worthy.

If I do play Act II with my current stats it'll be with other people. I've also been playing without frost nova again and that's going well for speed butcher runs (hydra/magic weapon is so much dps). If I run with other people using this build I'll most likely switch out frost nova as well. The DPS from Hydra or Magic Weapon is really noticeable.

Thanks for the tips, I appreciate them as it's really helping me out in hardcore.
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07-21-2012, 05:40 PM
Post: #58
RE: Crit / meteor build
When I switched from my 250 to 751 DPS (around the Zoltan Kulle quests), the game became an absolute exercise in facerolling until A4 Hell, during which I had to peel my face off the keyboard I think for two boss packs and Diablo. I almost broke my nose facerolling.

Finally satisfied that this, in fact, a game in the Diablo series.
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07-22-2012, 11:53 PM (This post was last modified: 07-22-2012 11:53 PM by MonTy.)
Post: #59
RE: Crit / meteor build
(07-20-2012 02:15 PM)Concillian Wrote:  Bees with mortar / waller / jailor / arcane? Bees stay at range, you get close to one, the others are mortaring you.

You were not kidding- I just cleared Maghda and those bee packs were by far the hardest thing I've faced in the game. Of course the two packs I fought had mortar, which led to fights where I probably had about 20-30% health at times.

So yea, contrary to my above posts I decided to dip my toe in Act 2 as I was craving a challenge after mindless butcher runs for a week. Glad I did as the fights are a lot of fun, nice to have a challenge. I raised my life to 57k, dps to 17k and resists to about 900. I'm back to my progression build which is the following: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wi...gaY!aZbcac

Over the course of the week I'll be nipping at Act 2, so I'll let you know how it goes. I'm feeling pretty comfortable that Belial can go down with my current stats, I just have to keep playing well.
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07-23-2012, 12:27 AM
Post: #60
RE: Crit / meteor build
Has anyone here experimented with alternatives to Meteor in this build? Meteor is almost better than it needs to be against mobs that close to melee range and can be tanked, but as soon as I have an engagement where I have to reposition a lot or am facing ranged foes that move away it's pretty inconvenient to use.

I was looking for a variant of this that sacrifices some of the melee dominance in return for better range and more flexibility to move around. I came up with a version that uses Electrocute with Forked Lightning and Energy Twister with Storm Chaser that seems to work reasonably well for me.

I know it sounds a little weird suggesting Energy Twister as a less awkward alternative to something, but at melee range they will hit, and the Storm Chaser one goes in a straight line at a reasonable speed, and of course you don't have to wait for 3 charges for fire it out. I haven't been able to confirm yet whether the Forked Lightning charged bolts can proc things, but in any case it all adds up to a lot of ticks and I find that when melee things clump up I sustain the Frost Nova and Diamond Skin almost as well as with Meter.

What I really like about it is that when I teleport away I can immediately start getting hits in and maintain the combo better and I'm much happier against archer type mobs.

Here's the build. It's not that refined yet, so probably isn't optimal. In particular I bet if I had some arcane power on crit I could drop Prodigy, and I'm not sure if Paralysis is worth it. I figured with so much lightning damage flying around that if it's good for any build it would be this one. I've cleared through Hell with it, although I swapped in some items I had waiting when I hit 60 so that's not saying too much. I'll invest about 1 million and see how it fares in inferno.
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