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Crit / meteor build
07-10-2012, 09:50 PM
Post: #21
RE: Crit / meteor build
I don't know what to say, I thought the build was perfectly viable and fun up to level 60 before I put on crit gear. Now I feel like the pyro in the recent TF2 video. It's unreal how good the synergy is between Crit Damage, AP on Crit, and Critical Mass reducing my cooldowns. Combined with the crazy item level drop rate of Act 3 Hell, I was able to get over a million gold of combined drops+gold between 2-3 hours. I bought some decent upgrades and my stats went up quite a bit. Looking forward to see how the new gear will play out today, although I'll stick to Hell Act 3 runs for a bit- don't want to be too overconfident.
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07-10-2012, 11:55 PM
Post: #22
RE: Crit / meteor build
(07-10-2012 09:50 PM)MonTy Wrote:  I don't know what to say, I thought the build was perfectly viable and fun up to level 60 before I put on crit gear. Now I feel like the pyro in the recent TF2 video. It's unreal how good the synergy is between Crit Damage, AP on Crit, and Critical Mass reducing my cooldowns. Combined with the crazy item level drop rate of Act 3 Hell, I was able to get over a million gold of combined drops+gold between 2-3 hours. I bought some decent upgrades and my stats went up quite a bit. Looking forward to see how the new gear will play out today, although I'll stick to Hell Act 3 runs for a bit- don't want to be too overconfident.

How are you dealing with Jailor/Arcane, Monty? Are things dying too fast to really matter at this point?
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07-11-2012, 12:09 AM (This post was last modified: 07-11-2012 12:13 AM by MonTy.)
Post: #23
RE: Crit / meteor build
(07-10-2012 11:55 PM)MongoJerry Wrote:  How are you dealing with Jailor/Arcane, Monty? Are things dying too fast to really matter at this point?

One thing I noticed about this build is that it's also very good at off screen kiting when needed. I've run across a few packs (Jailor/Waller/Frozen + Fast + Arcane) that still would pose a threat if I played careless. With Astral Presence and +AP/AP on Crit gear I'm able to lead them into my Meteors while running away until I don't see an Arcane beam, then run in frost nova + spectral blade to build AP, then run out when seeing beams/frozen orbs and meteor kite them back.

In order to pull this off in Inferno I'll require good DPS as I could see it taking awhile against increased health mobs that already have high health. Keep in mind this is a strategy that is rarely needed, most often I'm in the thick of combat to pull off a lot of hits/crits with meteor and spectral blade while rotating either diamond skin or frost nova. It's just for those extremely deadly packs.
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07-11-2012, 02:33 AM
Post: #24
RE: Crit / meteor build
(07-11-2012 12:09 AM)MonTy Wrote:  
(07-10-2012 11:55 PM)MongoJerry Wrote:  How are you dealing with Jailor/Arcane, Monty? Are things dying too fast to really matter at this point?

One thing I noticed about this build is that it's also very good at off screen kiting when needed. I've run across a few packs (Jailor/Waller/Frozen + Fast + Arcane) that still would pose a threat if I played careless. With Astral Presence and +AP/AP on Crit gear I'm able to lead them into my Meteors while running away until I don't see an Arcane beam, then run in frost nova + spectral blade to build AP, then run out when seeing beams/frozen orbs and meteor kite them back.

(07-02-2012 03:46 AM)MonTy Wrote:  I'm currently using this skill set.

Are you still using this build (with Critical Mass instead of Evocation, of course)? If I were to replace Hydra with Mirror Images/Duplicates, would I be at a terrible disadvantage in some situations?

Also, why choose Deep Cuts versus Healing Blades or Thrown Blades? Do the bleed effects trigger crits as well?
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07-11-2012, 08:52 AM
Post: #25
RE: Crit / meteor build
I still don't understand the Spectral Blades myself. I've started running Electrocute/Surge of Power for a primary slot. Sure, 80% of my weapon damage is only around 10K, but hitting multiple targets, at range, several times rapidly, and just watching my AP orb rocket to full? I'll take that.

Finally satisfied that this, in fact, a game in the Diablo series.
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07-11-2012, 09:44 AM (This post was last modified: 07-11-2012 09:45 AM by MongoJerry.)
Post: #26
RE: Crit / meteor build
(07-11-2012 08:52 AM)ViralSpiral Wrote:  I still don't understand the Spectral Blades myself. I've started running Electrocute/Surge of Power for a primary slot. Sure, 80% of my weapon damage is only around 10K, but hitting multiple targets, at range, several times rapidly, and just watching my AP orb rocket to full? I'll take that.

I assume it's the chance to proc Critical Mass on critical hit.

http://www.theamazonbasin.com/d3/forums/...-by-skill/

So, Spectral Blades normally hits 3 times for 22% chance to proc on each target hit for a total of 66% chance to proc on each target-- 88% chance to crit if you use Deep Cuts. However, Electrocute/SOP only has a 25% chance to proc CM on crit against a single target -- 75% at best if it hits 3 targets. (I can definitely see why not to use Thrown Blades now).
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07-11-2012, 01:35 PM (This post was last modified: 07-11-2012 01:53 PM by Concillian.)
Post: #27
RE: Crit / meteor build
(07-11-2012 08:52 AM)ViralSpiral Wrote:  I still don't understand the Spectral Blades myself. I've started running Electrocute/Surge of Power for a primary slot. Sure, 80% of my weapon damage is only around 10K, but hitting multiple targets, at range, several times rapidly, and just watching my AP orb rocket to full? I'll take that.

It's also rate of attack plus life on hit. Meteor is for damage, spectral blades for healing. You have 5-6 enemies in front of you? Electrocute hits 3 and nets small Life on Hit return and small AP on crit, Spectral blades hits all of them and nets large Life on Hit return.

Take some damage, then diamond skin while using spectral blades, and you're back full.

Perhaps a ranged signature will help with ranged monsters that kite me, I dunno. Trying seeker this 5 stack, damage feels quite low compared to spectral blades.


Mongo, jailor / arcane is not as bad as vortex / arcane. I suppose every class must have the same issues with that on hardcore, and people survive in Act I / II.... I just am not seeing how to avoid occasionally being sucked into a field of sentries before you can get the boss pack thinned out so there aren't so many. Even when I play ring around the rosie, breaking direct line of sight by moving around some object in the center, I sometimes get sucked right on top of a sentry.

Part of it is non-hardcore gearing with like 30k health, for sure, but still I'm also at about 10% total damage taken since a couple upgrades (68.7% DR armor / 68.1% lowest resist). Effective health is pretty high.

I'm not playing with hardcore mentality either. I'll try replacing Wave of Force with images. Won't really help vortex, which I've found to be a bigger problem than jailor. Haven't played much with Teleport there, that may be better.

D3 Chars:
Concillian SC Wizard (Crit / Meteor) - Conc SC Warrior (Tornado) - Conkymonky HC Monk
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07-11-2012, 01:55 PM
Post: #28
RE: Crit / meteor build
Which is another thing - Hydra is good for single targets, Meteor for closely-knit groups or single targets. Spectral is good at the same things as Meteor, but without the range. Electrocute is good against a line of enemies, or somewhat more sparse groups than Meteor hits. Also, it seems to tick awfully quickly, but that may be IAS/perception of my AP orb filling rapidly. True, Electrocute is probably the worst signature for single targets, but both my other attacks manage single targets fine.

Electric Pulse is just something I use at low level until I have better options. Spectral has low range, doesn't hit the full area it shows slashes across, and seems to cast slower than the others. I've learned Magic Missile is just generally bad. You can throw the 143% damage rune on it, but the missiles still have to fire, travel, and connect. Not to mention MMs seem much more tightly controlled by IAS than Electrocute - which in the time you fire two and they travel out and hit, Electrocute will have ticked 2-3 times easily, maybe even 4. I mean the base Electrocute hits up to three targets at 80% each. You need a rune to hit up to three targets on MM for 50% each. Electrocute also auto-aims slightly to nearby monsters, which is another function MM requires a rune for.

Actually the only time I stopped using Electrocute was when I was doing a cold-themed build and not using ANY primary - just Ray of Frost with Cold-Blooded to get its cost down to "almost free." I want to like some of the other options - especially Spectral Blades - but I just can't with the current balance. Electrocute just in my experience seems far better than other options.

Finally satisfied that this, in fact, a game in the Diablo series.
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07-11-2012, 03:09 PM (This post was last modified: 07-11-2012 03:15 PM by MongoJerry.)
Post: #29
RE: Crit / meteor build
I just started leveling my crit/meteor wizard, and it is so much fun. She's 37 in nightmare Act II at the moment. I understand why you like Wave of Force. It was helpful to use it in a cycle with Frost Nova and also to help break up packs to help me run away. However, every jailor or frozen boss -- especially if they were also arcane -- scared the heck out of me. I just switched to Mirror Images/Duplicates, and I've been feeling so much more comfortable. It both helps me against those bosses and helps keep mobs busy while I'm waiting for Frost Nova to come back up again. Mind you, I've been using MI/Duplicates a lot over the last couple of weeks, so I'm used to its quirks -- and there definitely are quirks to the skill. I'll let you know how it goes as I continue to level up and finally reach a stage where I can start using Critical Mass.

By the way, I've been using Prodigy + Power Hungry while playing in groups, and it has just been spam city. In solo situations, I'll switch to Astral Presence, of course.

It's been fun playing this way in pug groups. None of the pugs I played with had ever seen anything like it. It's nice to play something different from the usual arcane or Blizzard/Hydra build standbys. Thanks for your write-up, Concillian.
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07-11-2012, 05:36 PM (This post was last modified: 07-11-2012 07:45 PM by MonTy.)
Post: #30
RE: Crit / meteor build
MongoJerry Wrote:Are you still using this build (with Critical Mass instead of Evocation, of course)? If I were to replace Hydra with Mirror Images/Duplicates, would I be at a terrible disadvantage in some situations?

Also, why choose Deep Cuts versus Healing Blades or Thrown Blades? Do the bleed effects trigger crits as well?
I'm using Magic Weapon over Hydra now. I feel comfortable with the playstyle to hit moving things accurately enough. I'd still recommend Hydra until your crit gear is sufficient to trigger enough critical mass ticks. It's also invaluable for Act 3 lunatics, but I also now feel comfortable killing them without hydra (Inferno might be a different story).

It seems like Deep Cut bleeds trigger critical mass crits, but I'm not positive. There's times when my diamond skin instantly is available again after only using one or two spectral blade hits. Also, I can't imagine using anything other than spectral blade. The number of times it hits enemies really plays well with this build. Especially once you get life on hit (which is something I have to find, currently have zero).

On a side note, I wanted to throw a basic tip out there. Be mindful of how many meteors you can cast. You lose a lot of DPS if you go to cast Meteor but fail at doing so because lack of Arcane Power and your character shoots out with his basic attack. You could have used this time to move up and spectral blade them- in tough fights this will mean everything as it's easy to get caught up in trying to spam meteor.

Concillian Wrote:jailor / arcane is not as bad as vortex / arcane.
Vortex/Arcane is certainly deadly, especially combined with extra health on tough base monster types as arcane gives them additional resists to meteor (thanks to star runestone). Try your best to drag them away from arcane beams and you'll have to keep diamond skin ready for when you feel vulnerable.

Concillian Wrote:I'm not playing with hardcore mentality either.
Yea I'm being really cautious with my character. I'm trying to hit 12k DPS, 600 Resists, ~70% DR, 55+k HP, some life on hit, and at least 25% crit before I attempt Inferno. Every day I'm getting significant upgrades from hell act 3 runs, so I think reaching the above stats will be possible in the near future.
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07-11-2012, 07:10 PM
Post: #31
RE: Crit / meteor build
Yeah, that's another fun point when I play with PUGs - people ask what I'm doing that I'm able to just stand in the middle of giant hordes of things and not appear to take any damage. Usually I'll explain the idea of the build to them (I'm basically sitting around with DSkin up constantly due to Critical Mass, and what few gaps appear are -usually- handled by Frost Nova) when I get a chance. I'm still in A3/4 Hell farm mode because I know I'm still undergear for Inferno, especially resists. Although I've been giving other characters priority at the moment because I want to get them all to sixty and then decide which one I most want to try and push through Inferno with. But the only serious threat I have is a group of Hulking Phasebeasts - they seem to be the only thing that can do enough sheer damage to just flat overwhelm the DSkin and start laying into me. Which really just means I have to play like a mage for a few moments until I can thin the herd instead of standing in the middle of the pack like Billy Bulletproof, so it's not a big deal.

So much fun though, and it's nice to not have to rely on anyone else to tank, because almost without fail any PUG I end up in is nothing but Wiz and DH.

Finally satisfied that this, in fact, a game in the Diablo series.
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07-12-2012, 12:49 AM (This post was last modified: 07-12-2012 01:06 AM by MongoJerry.)
Post: #32
RE: Crit / meteor build
By the way, I loved using Ice Armor with this build while leveling early on. If the Ice Armor rune that now gives a 15% armor bonus every time you get hit, stacking up to 3 times, was simply a straight 45% armor bonus, I'd probably use it over Energy Armor. I hope when Blizzard releases the next skill balances that they give that kind of a boost to the non-Energy Armor armors.
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07-12-2012, 02:24 AM (This post was last modified: 07-12-2012 07:02 AM by MongoJerry.)
Post: #33
RE: Crit / meteor build
I've been giving this a lot of thought and while I love Mirror Images / Duplicates, you all are right that there are too many situations like Vortex/Arcane or Waller/Plagued/Desecrate where you just have to be able to get out of Dodge. So, I'm going to go with Teleport - Fracture in an attempt to have a 2-for-1 skill. The fractures will hopefully do enough to distract or position mobs the way I need them to while simultaneously I'll have an "out" skill to get out of tough spots or get to that key health orb during a tough fight. So, this is what I'm targeting for my end build:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wi...Xag!aZYZac

I'll let you know how it goes.
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07-12-2012, 09:06 AM (This post was last modified: 07-12-2012 09:13 AM by Concillian.)
Post: #34
RE: Crit / meteor build
I played tonight with mirror images and electrocute.

Electrocute -- I used the crit = more lightning rune, whatever it's called. This does piddly damage to any single target. Spectral does TONS more damage. Butcher inferno feels like at 14k what it felt like at 11k with spectral blades. It does have mass room clearing ability. MASS. Like almost as good as meteor spam if there's lots of guys around (but much less critical mass procs from the 25% coefficient) I can see this being used for farming hell over using Disintigrate.

Mirror images -- Duplicates worked okay. I died twice playing through most of Act I inferno. Once I got pinned in and couldn't get out. I felt like partly it was my play. The other was fast / molten / teleport / something else. These mobbed me. I likely would have survived with 5k more health. I actually died about 3 steps from a health globe and potion about 10 secs from cooled down.

I also tried Mirror Images with the "they do 10% of your damage rune" (last rune, I forget what it's called). This was a shorter run, with going to the festering woods for some guaranteed packs in the places where you get the orbs to enter the drowned temple to up my stacks, usually there's 2 there, one or two in the open and an event for another meaning 3-5 stacks of NV really quick in the Festering Woods. Then went Agony 2 --> Butcher. No deaths.
I wanted to try this rune, not because of the damage, so much as I saw my duplicates casting frost nova all the time. I thought if they do 10% of my damage... would their frost nova freeze them? IT DOES. I virtually stun-locked a fast / molten / something / something champ pack, because you get like 3 frost novas every 3-4 seconds if you're puddles are working for you, which is facilitated by the extra freezing. This is a very interesting skill / rune combo for use in that extra slot. I didn't really notice the mirrors casting much else.

D3 Chars:
Concillian SC Wizard (Crit / Meteor) - Conc SC Warrior (Tornado) - Conkymonky HC Monk
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07-12-2012, 09:37 AM
Post: #35
RE: Crit / meteor build
Yeah, like I said, Electrocute isn't the best for single target damage - the rest of the build works fine for that. It's there for 1) quick-moving trash mobs that might be a slight annoyance to hit with Meteor when you don't want to blow a Frost Nova, 2) weak trash mobs that will die quickly to it anyhow or 3) AP recovery by hitting several mobs with the +1 AP per hit rune.

Finally satisfied that this, in fact, a game in the Diablo series.
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07-13-2012, 02:26 AM
Post: #36
RE: Crit / meteor build
Things are going well with my hardcore wizard. After about 12 hours of running Act 3 hell over the last few days I feel like I'm ready to enter Inferno comfortably. I thought it was going to take much longer but thanks to item level 61/62 drops in A3/4 Hell, tomorrow I'm going to start running Act 1. My defensive stats are a tad lower than I'd like, but I feel like my DPS makes up for it. Here are links for my current gear and stats. Feels good to finally get some LoH!

I really like the raw power of Magic Weapon once you gear up crit and learn how to better play the build. I'll probably go back to Hydra for Act 2/3 progression. But for A1 Inferno I'll be sticking with Magic Weapon and this build.

I'll be sure to report in how Inferno goes. I know some champion packs will be a threat but I feel like correct usage of diamond skin and frost nova will be enough to handle Act 1.
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07-13-2012, 11:51 AM (This post was last modified: 07-13-2012 03:57 PM by MongoJerry.)
Post: #37
RE: Crit / meteor build
I'm level 57 in Act II hell, and I am still love love loving this build. I was loving it before Critical Mass, and now that I have it and some critical hit equipment equipped, I love it even more. My total critical hit is up to 25% now, and when I turn 60, I should be able to take off Pinpoint Barrier and still have over 30%. I still need to find some decent crit rings, an amulet, and a headpiece, so I'll probably have to farm Act III a while to be able to find and/or pay for those. I'm really kicking myself for dying with a great crit amulet I managed to snipe off the AH that would have been perfect (I literally put my bid in with 10 seconds left to go).

Things I've learned:

1. I hate shielding elites. No frost nova freezing and no Critical Mass procs = sad Mongo. At least Invulnerable Minions are susceptable to Frost Nova. (Do they proc Critical Mass?). Second worst so far is Frozen, although I'm getting better at spotting the orbs at melee range and teleporting away if I have to before they go off. I'm also starting to see why melee characters hate Nightmarish so much.

2. I love beating the snot out of any scavenger/dog packs I see. I always hated/feared them the most with my ranged wizards, so I get extra pleasure from wiping them out.

3. I've been playing in groups mostly and have found my favorite classes to group with so far -- in order of favorite to least favorite:
a) Monk -- Similar playstyle. Monk rounds them up so that Meteors and Spectral Blades proc like mad. We then spam alternate cc's keeping everything locked. It's beautiful.
b) Barbarian -- Similar to the monk but not quite as good of a synergy. Barbarians can still hold mobs down and can be partial protection, though.
c) Wizard with Blizzard -- The Blizzard corrals mob groups, while I lock them down inside the Blizzard with Frost Nova. If I have to run or teleport away for any reason (e.g. run out of an arcane sentry's path), the mobs are well snared by the Blizzard to help me make my escape and keep the mobs inside the meteor puddles for a moment or two longer.
d) Witch Doctors -- I'm not sure where to rank Witch Doctors, because I only ran into them in 4-player groups, so I didn't get a good feel for how well we synergized. The pets Witch Doctors were helpful with their ability to corral mobs, of course. I don't know one way or the other regarding non-pets Witch Doctors.
e) Arcane style Wizards or Demon Hunters -- Nearly no synergy that I was able to spot. They just mostly stood back and dps'ed. At one point, I felt like they were mooching off me -- I'm risking my neck here and all they're doing is sitting back there firing. However, I don't know enough about Demon Hunter skills to know if perhaps they added some snaring that I wasn't consciously aware of.

4. I'm finding Teleport to be absolutely critical for me right now. Emphasis on the "for me." I can see that it's possible to play this kind of a Wizard without it, but right now, it is so nice to have that escape out when I do something stupid or get caught in a situation without an out (e.g. Vortexed into a mob group in a tight space with arcane sentries rotating in). It's kind of my "get out of stupidland free" card. As I get more experience playing this build -- and I get used to playing against mobs as a melee range player (which I haven't done previously) -- I can then entertain other options like Mirror Images, Magic Weapon, or Hydra. But for now, Teleport's saved me at least four times in hell already, and I don't see giving it up easily. Also, I've used it to save *other* players when fights started to break down by teleporting in front of mobs and Frost Nova'ing to stop them from charging my teammates.
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07-13-2012, 06:04 PM (This post was last modified: 07-13-2012 10:24 PM by MonTy.)
Post: #38
RE: Crit / meteor build
(07-13-2012 11:51 AM)MongoJerry Wrote:  I'm finding Teleport to be absolutely critical for me right now.

It's not just you, teleport is insanely helpful for surviving in Hardcore. I had a hard time giving it up and found I had to overgear my current zone a bit in order to replace it without a high chance of dieing. Although now with better crit gear I don't see myself ever needing it.

If I stuck with teleport I'd be tempted to use Explosive Blast with Shortfuse instead of Meteor since unlike Meteor I'd have to be within range to damage, and I can teleport out when needed. Plus you really don't have to worry about arcane power with explosive blast. Just the 6sec cooldown that shouldn't be an issue with crit gear, evocation, and critical mass.

Keep us updated how you're doing. Mobs hit me a bit harder than I'd like in my first few steps of Inferno. Thinking of getting 500 resists(from 300) before going further.

*edit - glad I didn't wait to enter Inferno. Full run up to Skeleton King went smoothly, even against tougher champion packs (vortex + arcane + anything). Getting a ton of ilvl 61/62 now and foresee skeleton runs being a great source of items and money for the near future.
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07-13-2012, 11:11 PM (This post was last modified: 07-13-2012 11:17 PM by MongoJerry.)
Post: #39
RE: Crit / meteor build
Quote:If I stuck with teleport I'd be tempted to use Explosive Blast with Shortfuse instead of Meteor since unlike Meteor I'd have to be within range to damage, and I can teleport out when needed.

The meteor puddles are critical for getting Critical Mass procs. Plus, there are times when you need to shoot meteors at range -- especially when you are in a group.

(07-13-2012 06:04 PM)MonTy Wrote:  Keep us updated how you're doing. Mobs hit me a bit harder than I'd like in my first few steps of Inferno. Thinking of getting 500 resists(from 300) before going further.

*edit - glad I didn't wait to enter Inferno. Full run up to Skeleton King went smoothly, even against tougher champion packs (vortex + arcane + anything). Getting a ton of ilvl 61/62 now and foresee skeleton runs being a great source of items and money for the near future.

What's your health, armor, resistances, dps and crit% at the moment?
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07-14-2012, 12:04 AM
Post: #40
RE: Crit / meteor build
(07-13-2012 11:11 PM)MongoJerry Wrote:  What's your health, armor, resistances, dps and crit% at the moment?

See this screenshot for the exact stats from my last SK run: http://i.imgur.com/0ngqo.jpg
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