Max Schaefer talks about TL2 and D3

[Mavfin]

Interview with Max:

http://eat-games.tumblr.com/post/2496989...orchlight2

Also, Bashiok comments on TL2 and Max (favorably)

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5...page=7#128

Edit: fixed links - thanks Foxbat and Spelunker

[FoxBat]

Great interview. Some nice insight on Runic versa the ARPG industry.

Everyone do yourself a favor and skip to here for Bashiok's comments... no one should have to read the dribble that is that forum thread.

[BellaStrega]

I like this interview, and I like Max Schaefer's comments about Diablo III.

Not that it'll take the piss out of all those people who insist that DIablo III violates the spirit of Diablo II.

[Ashock]

I like this interview, and I like Max Schaefer's comments about Diablo III.

Not that it'll take the piss out of all those people who insist that DIablo III violates the spirit of Diablo II.

There is no way that Schaefer would ever put down D3. It's bad politics.

As far as D3 violating the "spirit" of Diablo... That's too melodramatic.

It's the quality of the series that is violated.

[Mavfin]

I like this interview, and I like Max Schaefer's comments about Diablo III.

Not that it'll take the piss out of all those people who insist that DIablo III violates the spirit of Diablo II.

There is no way that Schaefer would ever put down D3. It's bad politics.

As far as D3 violating the "spirit" of Diablo... That's too melodramatic.

It's the quality of the series that is violated.

Can't stand to have anyone say anything nice about D3, eh? So, of course, Max Schaefer *can't* be telling the truth as he sees it.

Back to convince us how much the game sucks some more, are you? Do you really feel the need to have someone validate your own opinion about the game that much? You don't like D3. We get that, and it's your prerogative to feel that way. However, do you really have to post in every thread you can to tell us again?

If I want to read posts like this, I can see tons of this drivel on the official forums. Thanks so much for bringing it here.

[FoxBat]

There is no way that Schaefer would ever put down D3. It's bad politics.

While true this is getting old. Max is not in anywhere near the same shoes as those disgruntled D3 fans. "His" D3 was supposed to be an MMO, the D3 we got is downright conservative by compare. (Albeit both would surely have an AH!) I doubt he's wishing the game was more "LoD", even the interview made clear that he believes expectations needed to be surpassed rather than met. (Hence why they were working on an MMO in the first place.)

Plus seeing as he's in the home stretch of making his own game, he certainly hasn't had the time to run into whatever Inferno things people are complaining about. Nor would he judge a game exclusively on its endgame anyway, because you don't get far in game design doing just that.

[Ashock]

I like this interview, and I like Max Schaefer's comments about Diablo III.

Not that it'll take the piss out of all those people who insist that DIablo III violates the spirit of Diablo II.

There is no way that Schaefer would ever put down D3. It's bad politics.

As far as D3 violating the "spirit" of Diablo... That's too melodramatic.

It's the quality of the series that is violated.

Can't stand to have anyone say anything nice about D3, eh? So, of course, Max Schaefer *can't* be telling the truth as he sees it.

Back to convince us how much the game sucks some more, are you? Do you really feel the need to have someone validate your own opinion about the game that much? You don't like D3. We get that, and it's your prerogative to feel that way. However, do you really have to post in every thread you can to tell us again?

If I want to read posts like this, I can see tons of this drivel on the official forums. Thanks so much for bringing it here.

Actually, I post just so I can get a response from you.

[Quark]

Actually, I post just so I can get a response from you.

And now you're the 2nd person to ever be on my ignore list on this forum. Congratulations. Go away or group up.

[Roland]

Actually, I post just so I can get a response from you.

Your behavior of late seems so opposite from what I remember from the DSF days it almost makes me wonder if you're a completely different person. Am I just mistaken by the fog of nostalgia and memory? What gives man? Honest question.

[Ashock]

Actually, I post just so I can get a response from you.

Your behavior of late seems so opposite from what I remember from the DSF days it almost makes me wonder if you're a completely different person. Am I just mistaken by the fog of nostalgia and memory? What gives man? Honest question.

On the DSF, there was much to discuss, about a great game. In the early days of the LL, there was also much to discuss about another great game.

I think you see where I'm going with this.

If you're referring to my impatience for certain people, then it's not a bug, but a feature.

However, what exactly are you referring to?

[Roland]

On the DSF, there was much to discuss, about a great game. In the early days of the LL, there was also much to discuss about another great game.

I think you see where I'm going with this.

If you're referring to my impatience for certain people, then it's not a bug, but a feature.

However, what exactly are you referring to?

Ok. I understand your frustration with the game, and in what ways it's a letdown from its predecessors. What I still don't understand is why you continue to attempt to discuss (and I use that term loosely) such shortcomings with people who don't feel the same way. It just feels like you're trolling for the sake of it, and I don't recall that being a character trait you possessed (except when dealing with, har har, trolls). As I said, though, maybe I'm remembering incorrectly.

Not trying to piss on your parade or anything. Just a curiosity. Call it my faith in humanity.

[Ashock]

On the DSF, there was much to discuss, about a great game. In the early days of the LL, there was also much to discuss about another great game.

I think you see where I'm going with this.

If you're referring to my impatience for certain people, then it's not a bug, but a feature.

However, what exactly are you referring to?

Ok. I understand your frustration with the game, and in what ways it's a letdown from its predecessors. What I still don't understand is why you continue to attempt to discuss (and I use that term loosely) such shortcomings with people who don't feel the same way. It just feels like you're trolling for the sake of it, and I don't recall that being a character trait you possessed (except when dealing with, har har, trolls). As I said, though, maybe I'm remembering incorrectly.

Not trying to piss on your parade or anything. Just a curiosity. Call it my faith in humanity.

Oh, that's simple.

The older I get, the more impatient with ppl I get.

Besides, if I am still posting on this forum in 2-3 months, and I say this b/c I tend to take time off from posting here, I am 100% positive that I will come back and the D3 section will be a ghost town. I will enjoy looking at these threads that much more.

Look at it this way. I originally posted that this game needs saving only a few days after it came out. I got attacked for this by a small army of Blizzard fanboys, who were not even at the point of the game as to be able to judge my opinions for what they were.
These ppl seemed to take my criticism of this game personally, as if they had a hand in developing it.

As I've said, the older I get, the less patience I have for the blind. Well, not the physically blind, in case you wondered. Although, I always did think that Ray Charles was overrated.

Either way, I think I'm done with this topic.


Edit:

If this were just an inferior game, I would be upset, but not like this.
What upsets me the most is that this is an obvious money grab by Blizzard, and nothing else. This game is intended to revolve around the RMAH, and that is what is the most upsetting to me. How a great company like this can go down that road in such an obvious way. It's like they thought to themselves that yeah.... if we are going to lose WOW subscribers to D3, it might as well make it worth it for us. I hate greed for the sakes of greed.

[MonTy]

I also had the pleasure of speaking with him and several other Runic members at PAX East. You can tell just how passionate they are and seemed to listen closely to what every fan had to say. To boot they were freaking hysterical (especially Bella Wonder). Great group of people, seems like the type you'd just love to hang out and nerd chat with.

Can't wait to get my hands on the retail version of TL2, I think it'll be a very fun ARPG. And I'm really interested in designing a class or two with their game editor (as I find their class/skill system to be one of the weak points).

[BellaStrega]

There is no way that Schaefer would ever put down D3. It's bad politics.

Yeah, you go with that. Just don't expect agreement.

[Hammerskjold]

Can't wait to get my hands on the retail version of TL2, I think it'll be a very fun ARPG. And I'm really interested in designing a class or two with their game editor (as I find their class/skill system to be one of the weak points).

You know I still would like to hand over my cash for D3, some of the things I've seen and looked at my reaction is 'Oh HELL YEAH! That's what I want, gimme gimme gimme!'. Some other aspect of it makes me go 'LUL WUT?'

And unfortunately, a few are just plain deal breakers for me. I doubt bliz would release an offline mode anytime soon, so it's unfortunate because there are aspects of it that I really want to experience.

Well I hear some people will say, just pick up all the other myriad Diablo like games coming out. Here's the thing, there actually isn't very many like it. I'm not being metaphorical here, I mean there really isn't that many games that has offline mode the way Diablo1&2 does.

Most Diablo like clones right now is usually an online only f2p model.

So while the true 'spiritual' successor might be overly dramatic phrasing. For me yes, TL2 seems to be the -only- candidate that fits my criteria so far. The fact that some of the developers were from D1&2, and I enjoyed TL1 is a bonus for sure.

If there is any other ARPG for PC that has offline mode, with the same kind of fun as D1&2 without some of the more dated elements, by all means please list them here. No really, I'd love some good Diablo clones, I've been searching for one and tried a bunch ever since D1\D1 Hellfire, and a few came close but all seems to be missing some key element.

But let's give some of the 'fanboy\hater' labelling a rest. (Not addressed to you specifically MonTy, just ranting in general here.)
Lately it seems people can only be labelled as either a 'fanboy' or a 'hater'.

Someone does not like something in D3, well you're a bliz hater who kicks puppies for fun. You like something in D3, well you're a sycophantic fanboy who licks Bobby Koticks loafers.

Anyways let us all settle and tuck into something we can all agree on, I'm sure of it. A tasty dish of hotdogs in jell-o!

What, you don't like savoury gelatin dishes?
HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE!

[MonTy]

If there is any other ARPG for PC that has offline mode, with the same kind of fun as D1&2 without some of the more dated elements, by all means please list them here.

If you or anyone else has not played Median XL, I cannot recommend this Diablo 2 Mod enough. It's by far the best Action RPG experience I've ever had. It has a large learning curve but pays dividends once you learn the item and crafting system. The game can be a bit AoE spammy, but the new skills certainly balance out the number of mobs on the screen.

There's hundreds of new runewords, 500+ uniques, set items that drastically change your character, tons of affixes that grant new skills or effects, level challenges, and new endgame system of uberquests. The uberquests consists of completely new dungeons that require you to adapt to a strategy unique to that level. In addition there are summoning uberquests and heroic levels which test the limits of your characters.

If you want to wait a few weeks, the Mod to a Mod, Median XL Ultimative is getting a overhaul. It's an even harder version of Median XL and comes with more features, so I can't quite recommend it if you're new to Median XL. I've uploaded some videos of a Sorc in the starting areas of Median XL: Ultimative if you want to take a peek.

As far as other ARPGs I can recommend, see below:
Divine Divinity
Nox
Sacred Gold
Titan Quest Gold with mods

But you'll find not many scratch the same itch D2 does.

[MongoJerry]

And unfortunately, a few are just plain deal breakers for me. I doubt bliz would release an offline mode anytime soon, so it's unfortunate because there are aspects of it that I really want to experience.

Well I hear some people will say, just pick up all the other myriad Diablo like games coming out. Here's the thing, there actually isn't very many like it. I'm not being metaphorical here, I mean there really isn't that many games that has offline mode the way Diablo1&2 does.

I don't understand this nostalgia for the offline D2 mode. I found the single player version of D2 to be incredibly easy and boring. The non-battlenet servers were full of mods that overpowered your characters even more and dropped rares and uniques on every drop. If I hadn't logged into Battlenet, I would've given up on the game in less than a week, and if I hadn't found hardcore, I would've dropped the game after a month. No exaggeration, I preferred playing hardcore on battlenet over a laggy 56k modem than playing offline. I don't understand the desire to go back to any kind of offline play.

If this were just an inferior game, I would be upset, but not like this.

Regarding comments like these about D3 being "inferior" to D2, I can only come up with two explanations for them: 1) The person making that claim never actually played D2 or 2) That person's memory is fogged by either drugs or nostalgia for their youth or both. D2 was a crappy, broken, buggy, and unbalanced game that was only fun because of whacky ways players created to make up for its crappy, broken, buggy, and unbalanced regular gameplay. D3 is just such a much more polished game in every way from D2 or especially LOD, that I just can't fathom how anyone could possibly say that it's worse than D2.

Now, it is possible for a reasonable person to say that D3 isn't fun for them or that you wish certain aspects of the game would be changed. But to say that it's worse than D2? Preposterous.

[Treesh]

I don't understand this nostalgia for the offline D2 mode.

It's not nostalgia. It's having to rely on some really flaky ISPs for some folks. Sometimes you're traveling and you don't have wifi available. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to not want to be online to play it.

[Hammerskjold]

I don't understand this nostalgia for the offline D2 mode. I found the single player version of D2 to be incredibly easy and boring.

Treesh put it better than I could.


" It's not nostalgia. It's having to rely on some really flaky ISPs for some folks. Sometimes you're traveling and you don't have wifi available. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to not want to be online to play it. "

I can go on and on and on with other plenty legit reasons, but that horse is long past glue by now.

The non-battlenet servers were full of mods that overpowered your characters even more and dropped rares and uniques on every drop.

Even though the majority of so called mods were IMO way too generous, I'm not going to lump all of them in the same 'kill one fallen and get 50 Zods' cheese buffet.

If I hadn't logged into Battlenet, I would've given up on the game in less than a week, and if I hadn't found hardcore, I would've dropped the game after a month. No exaggeration, I preferred playing hardcore on battlenet over a laggy 56k modem than playing offline. I don't understand the desire to go back to any kind of offline play.

Because this and any other videogame, is not always an either or proposition for me. I had and played HC chars as well as softcore.

You don't understand the desire to go back to any kind of offline play? Well no offense, but I don't understand the notion that I have to choose one mode and that's it and that's all. It's all HC or bust. It's all Online or bust.

If it doesn't affect others in a negative way, what's it to them?
People who enjoy playing D3, awesome great! I wish it has an SP component, but since it don't, oh well I'll look elsewhere.

How that would take away someone's enjoyment of D3, is beyond me.


To MonTy:

I did try Median a long time ago, one of the early release versions iirc. It was definitely interesting, but unfortunately I haven't kept up with it's developments.

But you'll find not many scratch the same itch D2 does.

For me substitute the word D2 for D1.
D2\LoD was\is fun in it's own right, but there's still something about the responsiveness\feedback of D1 mouse click that I find very satisfying. D2 felt slightly mushier in that regard. (Not nostalgia btw, last time I played D1-HF:F was about 3 hours ago. Though I haven't played D2 much lately, the last time I did was maybe a year ago. But not that long that the mist of time fogged my memory of it.)

I've tried TQ a while back at a friends house, though again I haven't really kept up with any news of it lately.

Did you try any of TL2's minion\pets by the way? Reading some early report it was supposedly a bit underwhelming, but that's still just the early impression.

[BellaStrega]

I didn't have a chance to try any of TL2's minions or pets, unfortunately. I was in the beta, but I spent most of my beta time playing Diablo III.

Regarding why play Diablo II offline: I much prefer ladder play, but I dislike the 90-day expiration policy.