Blizzard's Game Design Update

[MonTy]

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/6018173/..._2012#blog

They address some of the hot topics: Inferno difficulty and Legendary items. What are you thoughts after giving it a read? Some interesting playerbase stats in there as well.

[MongoJerry]

The most common rune for a level 60 Wizard is Mirror Skin? That makes 50% of the damage taken by Diamond Skin reflect back at the attacker. But this turns a defensive skill into a semi-offensive spell, and as a Wizard, you should be trying not to get hit at all. When there are choices like doubling the possible absorption amount or increasing Diamond Skin's duration, I start getting a better picture now of why so many people are having trouble surviving in Inferno.

[MonTy]

I start getting a better picture now of why so many people are having trouble surviving in Inferno.

Haha, thanks for the laugh. Yea I've been trudging along other forums about inferno and it's been painful. I thought I rushed Inferno going in with a little over 35k health. There's endless amount of people complaining about Inferno being too hard with 20k health.

[FireIceTalon]

The philosophy as a ranged char of course is to kite/not get hit. But ofc, that is much easier said than done, and theory and practice are really two different things, especially in Inferno...Since almost every mob in Inferno has at least 2 types of gap closers and a immobilizer (or vice versa), getting hit as a ranged class is pretty much unavoidable.

[MongoJerry]

The philosophy as a ranged char of course is to kite/not get hit. But ofc, that is much easier said than done, and theory and practice are really two different things, especially in Inferno...Since almost every mob in Inferno has at least 2 types of gap closers and a immobilizer (or vice versa), getting hit as a ranged class is pretty much unavoidable.

*Golf clap* And, did you understand the point that people are choosing to make a defensive skill into a semi-offensive skill instead of making the defensive skill better? It appears that a large part of the population believe that they should get by by being glass cannons instead of spending the time obtaining items and using skills that help them mitigate the damage. Mirror Skin is a stupid rune to use in the Diamon Skin category, and yet it apparently is the most commonly used Wizard rune for level 60's. That shows that people's mindsets haven't changed from D2's "offense only" mindset.

[FireIceTalon]

Well, I can't speak for Wizards. For DH, it is Lingering Fog, which is what I use. Vs the easier mobs, it works great. Vs the very hard mobs (which is most), it is practically useless :/ I think people playing the Wiz and DH are getting desperate, because so many defensive skills are required to use in Inferno, yet alot of the time they do little good. So I guess trying to convert the defense into offense by choosing runes that give a more offensive nature to these skills. Dunno. But then again, this really goes back to D1, which was almost all offense as well. I dont mind defensive skills being important, but on DH at least, in Inferno, they are pretty useless for the most part. I guess Wiz's are having the same issue. Offense has been such a cultural norm in Diablo history (or even RPG in general) that adjusting to this change will only come very slowly, if at all. Blizz is either going to have nerf Inferno (which I think they should), or buff the chars and items up a bit.

[Chesspiece_face]

Offense has been such a cultural norm in Diablo history (or even RPG in general) that adjusting to this change will only come very slowly, if at all. Blizz is either going to have nerf Inferno (which I think they should), or buff the chars and items up a bit.

Or they should do nothing and just let the players get a clue and L2P.

[FireIceTalon]

Offense has been such a cultural norm in Diablo history (or even RPG in general) that adjusting to this change will only come very slowly, if at all. Blizz is either going to have nerf Inferno (which I think they should), or buff the chars and items up a bit.

Or they should do nothing and just let the players get a clue and L2P.

Spoken like a true Blizz fanboy/groupie. Blame the players instead of the flawed system that is based on "artificial" difficulty mechanics seen in video games from 1985. Because it is so much easier to blame the players, right?

Newsflash: if the majority of players who are in Inferno are struggling, which they are, I think that is reflection of the games broken design (at Inferno at least) and not the players themselves.

[Chesspiece_face]

Or they should do nothing and just let the players get a clue and L2P.

Spoken like a true Blizz fanboy/groupie. Blame the players instead of the flawed system that is based on "artificial" difficulty mechanics seen in video games from 1985. Because it is so much easier to blame the players, right?

Newsflash: if the majority of players who are in Inferno are struggling, which they are, I think that is reflection of the games broken design (at Inferno at least) and not the players themselves.

Feel free to attack me all you like and not my argument. This whole discussion is based on the fact that the majority of players complaining are obviously and patently making piss poor decissions on how to spec and gear their characters and then turning around and complaining about it. In my eyes this invalidates any complaint they may have.

If the players are the ones making the bad decissions and their struggles are their own fault, then yes, I blame them and their ignorance. And yes, they should learn to play.

[FireIceTalon]

Or maybe the itemization system is broke (not only in terms of items being underpowered, but also game mechanics, such as level 50 items dropping in Inferno, when you have to be level 60 to even unlock Inferno? That right there alone is a HUGE flaw) and people are trying new things out of desperation (but in vain) to beat a flawed system that will result in tedious frustration no matter what they do? Oh, wait, that never occurred to you. You have your nose so far up Blizz's ass it is RI-DIC-U-LOUS. I can't talk to people like you cause I would get further banging my head against a brick wall. The fact this topic even exists, and that Blizz is in fact going to implement nerfs to Inferno (the degree which remains to be seen) is PROOF the system is flawed, since Blizz is basically admitting it themselves.

Have you even unlocked Inferno yet, and actually played it? Cause I'm tired of kiddies who are still playing in NM or hell telling the Inferno players to quit crying, when they themselves have not even played in Inferno yet.

I cant wait to see all the fanboys who know nothing about how game mechanics work cry when Inferno gets nerfed, because people who actually have lives and play games for fun, may now have fun instead of Blizz nerds who sit in front of the screen 24/7 drooling over ways to beat a broken system in an online game. ROFL. Get a clue.

[Mavfin]

I'm one of the older people with a life here on the Lounge, and I don't want Inferno nerfed. I don't have to wait for 9 or 24 other people to adjust to it, after all. I can just depend on myself, gear properly, and do it, as some of the others here are doing themselves without undue trouble. I don't have to worry about anyone else standing in fire or missing an important interrupt, or any of those things. Just me, so if someone fails, I know who it was -- me, and I can fix it, and not have to wipe twenty times while waiting for others to do their jobs correctly.

I think anyone who expected to full-clear Inferno smoothly in the first two weeks was setting themselves up for failure. It's not a WoW raid that you can undergear and make it through anyway because you're just that awesome. It's like trying to to Ragnaros HC in 346 blues. Not going to happen.

[FireIceTalon]

No one is expecting to clear Inferno in the first two weeks of release (though I have a couple friends who have already beat Inferno), and I would venture to say that most people don't even WANT to do so. The complaint many people are making is that Inferno is NOT fun. At all. And most people, gasp, play video games to have fun. What a concept. Inferno just punishes the player by using faulty mechanics that make the game TEDIOUS. Just because a few people here are doing ok in it, doesnt mean most people who are playing Inferno are doing well - most of them are not. Maybe you play video games for punishment and to do chores, most people do not, and I dont see how one can argue against this point. Lastly, why arent all or at least most skills viable in Inferno? If you really have to spec your char a certain way, that kinda defeats the purpose of having an open-ended skill system does it not? The skill system in D3 is great. The mechanics of Inferno are NOT, because it forces you into using a select few builds. That my friends, is a FLAW. As far as being under geared goes, well, this forces you to use the AH, because most of the gear that is necessary to do Inferno without it being tedious will VERY rarely drop. But then you have to farm Inferno itself to build up the gold to use the AH so you can make your char strong enough to get through it. Most of the best items you can get are going in the millions. That's ALOT of tedious farming. And again, you cant really rely on the drops to save you, because level 50 (late nightmare/early hell quality drops) items drop in a difficulty that you have to be 60 to even play - absurd! If I have to be level 60 to play this difficulty, I want level 60 items minimum to drop when I go through the trouble of killing an rare/champion pack. It's like that age-old paradox: You have to have experience to get work, but you have work to get experience. It's really a backward system from D1 or D2 - and I suppose you either like it or you don't. I'm in the latter camp. A pity, because everything else about the game is really well done for the most part.

and Inferno WILL get nerfed, count on it. And it absolutely should. Blizz themselves said as it is right now, it is pretty ridiculous. The Devs made the game to a point where they thought it was as hard as possible for most serious gamers, then took that level and DOUBLED it.

[MonTy]

The link says that Blizzard is noticing damage spikes being a bit too high, which can be part of the frustration, but they also directly said that a lot of people entered Inferno undergeared: "we're actually seeing a pretty significant number of people attempting Inferno without sufficient gear."

Which I can certainly report. I've spent way too much time reading a dozen or so gaming websites and 95 out of 100 posts are from people who are just plain and simply undergeared. I was also one of those people who semi-rushed through content to see what Inferno was about, and I promptly got my ass handed to me. While I agree with Red that Inferno will be tweaked, I feel most of the issues stem from people rushing through the game.

With that said, I'm interested to see how people actually feel about there being a fourth difficulty. I'm not too sure I like having four playthroughs. I've been pondering about this and I feel Median XL's end game concept to be the best: Uberlevels. They're external dungeons that are there for the daring.

[Chesspiece_face]

Have you even unlocked Inferno yet, and actually played it? Cause I'm tired of kiddies who are still playing in NM or hell telling the Inferno players to quit crying, when they themselves have not even played in Inferno yet.

I cant wait to see all the fanboys who know nothing about how game mechanics work cry when Inferno gets nerfed, because people who actually have lives and play games for fun, may now have fun instead of Blizz nerds who sit in front of the screen 24/7 drooling over ways to beat a broken system in an online game. ROFL. Get a clue.

Yadda Yadda Yadda. We keep coming back to this. People refute you and you attack them because you can't stand on your own arguments.

Ok then. Here is my character, here is all of my gear, here is how I play, here is EVERYTHING. And here is how easy Inferno is for me at the place that I am at. I have had the game just as long as anyone else with the same opportunities to gain gear and learn how to play. If you want to put your spec/gear/playstyle out there for everyone to criticize and then complain about how broken it is I look forward to it. If not maybe it is you who should get a clue.

[kandrathe]

Here is my character, here is all of my gear, here is how I play, here is EVERYTHING.

That was awesome. Thanks for sharing that. I can't wait for end game now.

[Elric of Grans]

Only the other day I was thinking Blizzard should be able to readily pick up metrics like that, and I was hoping they would use them to help balance the game. I find it very positive to see they are in fact doing that. Some of those stats were kind of interesting too. I am also pleased to read they are looking at hitboxes, as they do seem pretty dodgy at times --- easily my #1 frustration with the game.

[DeeBye]

Ok then. Here is my character, here is all of my gear, here is how I play, here is EVERYTHING.

Dat shield!

edit: repair your stuff dude.

[Bolty]

Oh, wait, that never occurred to you. You have your nose so far up Blizz's ass it is RI-DIC-U-LOUS. I can't talk to people like you cause I would get further banging my head against a brick wall.

Instituting a 1-day ban here while you learn how to debate a topic rather than attack other posters.

[Roland]

Ok then. Here is my character, here is all of my gear, here is how I play, here is EVERYTHING. And here is how easy Inferno is for me at the place that I am at.

Love the video, and it does demonstrate how to play. The biggest nitpick I see is as a Demon Hunter player, in that there's no way you can come to those sorts of defensive stats without vastly more powerful gear. Yes, we will have slightly higher than 30% dodge rate, and yes that does help, but there is virtually now way for us to get that kind of armor, and so far +resist all has been hard to come by in my experience (thus my own resistances are poor, despite trying to raise them where I can). I'm not arguing against your valid main point, just demonstrating that there is one class that doesn't have it so easy as all the rest. The Demon Hunter, IMHO, is flat out the most difficult and fragile class to play.

Inferno is a place I enjoy playing, because it challenges me to be the best that I can, and I'm not looking forward to them nerfing it too much (although I agree there is too much spiking going on). I have right around 34k life, and just broke 18k damage last night with a new bow, and though I haven't tested it fully yet I finally feel as though I can progress through Act I Inferno comfortably. For us Demon Hunters, the best defense is a good offense. We flat out have no skills to boost our armor, or resistances, like every other class does. We have no passive damage reduction. My skill bar is set up the way Blizzard wants it - one skill from each "branch" - so I know my skills should be viable in Inferno (and so far I've seen nothing to indicate otherwise). However, because of the very limited amount of defensive skills we get we have to survive offensively, and learn to kite better than anyone else. I die plenty in Inferno, and it's usually because I get caught by Jailer, Waller, or Vortex. Otherwise, it's next to impossible for me to die without it being my own fault. So gearing is that much more critical to a Demon Hunter than for you as a Wizard, and thus bad gear punishes us that much more.

Anyway, enjoyed the vid, and it gets me excited to head back into Inferno (been busy this weekend, so no time for playing). I'm sure I'm among those who were / are "undergeared" for Inferno, but it's also a badge of honor to me that I can survive as far as I have with what I've had based upon my skill as a player alone. It's been frustrating at times, yes, but when you finally pull off that victory it's that much more rewarding. Personally, I use the AH exclusively to farm gear. I just don't have the time to find it on my own, and everything I ever find is crap (too worthless to be sold on the AH, and not even worth using for myself). So, I vendor all my sub-Inferno yellows and blues (unless I find something compelling for friends, or another character), and stockpile my gold when I can until I can buy another upgraded piece of gear (always without sacrificing what I have, which is getting more and more difficult ). I think it will be quite awhile before I get into Act II Inferno, but I'm OK with that - just so long as someday I can do so.

[Ruvanal]

Ok then. Here is my character, here is all of my gear, here is how I play, here is EVERYTHING.

One nit here. You implied that the dex you have from gear is worthless. But your dex is giving you a 16% dodge rate. Against the big damage hits that is about 1 in 6 that is totally avoided. You can't count on getting that if several come in faster than you can heal, but it can still be an important amount of your survival. And on the smaller pecking damage that dodge can be viewed as a 16% damage reduction applied before considerations of armor and resistances. In most peoples view a 16% reduction up front can be pretty good results.