A few ideas of how to save D3

[Ashock]

I posted this in General on Bnet, but it moves too fast for responses. Obviously if I posted on this forum originally, I could forego explaining how long I've been a Diablo fan....



Don't get me wrong, I am still enjoying the game. However, as it is right now, I can not possibly see myself playing it for years like I played D1 and D2.

First off, this assumes that there will be content patches BEFORE the expansion. If there are none, the game is sunk.
This does not include a PVP patch, as that is assumed in the first place.

1. The game needs to be opened up. None of this follow the quest chains in order for the next area to be available. It needs to be a much more opened world, where all you need to do to progress to the next act is to kill the end boss. Yes, like in D2.

2. The gold AH. I don't care about the RMAH. However, the gold AH is defeating Diablo 3's biggest purpose.
That purpose is to look for loot. It takes 10 minutes to find an item on the AH that would normally take weeks or months to find by just killing things.
Item hunting is one of the two most important reasons why D1 and D2 were so popular, the other being smashing mobs. Those two are combined nicely when item hunting. If there is no incentive to item hunt, there is no incentive to kill things. Hunting the AH.... not so addictive.

We all know that the AH is here to stay. Therefore, what needs to be done is something like this:
When the new series of Legendaries and Sets come out (and they will, just like they did in D2), they should not be buyable through the AH.
The AH should just exist for Blues/Rares and base legendaries that are available now. That way you could use the AH to gear up just enough to be able to go out hunting for the REAL treasure.
Those of us who played D2 from the beginning before LOD, remember that Unique and set items for Exceptionals and Elites did not exist before LOD. In fact Elite items of
any type did not exist before LOD.
It is imperative that the BEST items in the game are not buyable off the gold AH. RMAH - this is how Blizz expects to make some money, so there is nothing we can do about that. But the gold AH needs to be prohibitive.

3. Bnet chat rooms need to be redesigned and recreated. What we have now is a WOW inteface, however in WOW you are already surrounded by people, so this is fine.
In Diablo, the present Bnet interface is stifling and gives you a feeling of being isolated from the community, like you are playing SP instead of MP.
Community is one of the biggest reasons why D2 had so much staying power. This is very important.

4. Public games need to be more easily accessable. Period.

5. Runes/runewords/jewels/charms. Yes, they are all from D2. Yes, we need some. As is, the items in the game are too plain. 12 years have spoiled gamers. We expect more than we did when D2 came out.

That's just some basic thoughts. There are more issues, of course. This does not take into account the numerous tech problems still plagueing the game. This does not address class balance or game difficulty.

I am 100% sure that Blizzard is planning to implement lots of new features when the x-pack comes out. Maybe some old, maybe some new.

My point is that these need to be implemented WAY BEFORE the expansion, or by the time it comes out, not many will care. When D2 came out, it was revolutionary. Every feature was either new or different.
Well, D3 came out, and none of it's features are anything special or new or different.
Lots of games have similar features. Let's face it, this is D2, stripped down, with an AH and with better graphics.

I am as big a fan of the Diablo series as you can find, and I know that without big changes, this game will be in trouble soon.
2-3 months tops.

I don't want this to happen.

[FireIceTalon]

Regarding the gold AH, it is a unfortunate necessity to use when you get to hell mode. I agree with you, finding your own loot is much more fun. The problem is, the drops in this game are piss poor (at least until you reach level 60 and get to inferno supposedly) in relation to the difficulty and time spent finding them. It is very imbalanced. I'm 60 but havent reached Inferno yet, and players are commonly finding themselves having to use the AH to upgrade their chars just so they can get through the higher difficulties w/o it feeling like they are banging their heads against a brick wall. The crafting system isnt really reliable either until you max out your artisans, and that costs A FORTUNE to do. Why would people do that when they can get a much better item (for much cheaper in the long run, without having to play "wheel of fortune") at the AH, and then just wait till they are 60 and only then max out the artisans? Normally I would say just get rid of the AH, but to do that, they would have to make the drops rates and the quality of the drops MUCH better (or nerf the champion/rare packs to some degree), and the crafting/upgrading artisan system would have to become less costly. I have found a few nice items in my adventures along the way, and I've upgraded an item or two by crafting them, but it has been my AH purchases that have allowed to get as far as I have. You expend far too much time fighting Champions and Rare packs, and you get so little in return, that the AH becomes a necessity just to get through the game on hell or inferno. At the moment, my DH does about 9.5k DPS and has about 25K life, yet toward the end of Act 3 on hell mode is still insanely hard. Nothing wrong with that, but without some of the upgrades I made at the AH, it would be impossible for me to get through it playing solo, or at least tedious to the point where the game would turn into more of a chore.

I agree completely with the chatrooms. They are awful, and we also need a CUSTOM chatroom system where we can go, as well as a custom game creation system like in D1 or D2.

Still, I consider this to be the best game in the series yet. These are serious flaws which Blizz needs to address, but everything else is really well done. I love the story, the combat system is spectacular, the graphics are very nice, and the skill system is vastly better than D2's in every possible way, although I am none too pleased that Blizz is already starting to nerf some of the defensive skill on certain classes.

[Concillian]

Regarding the gold AH, it is a unfortunate necessity to use when you get to hell mode. I agree with you, finding your own loot is much more fun. The problem is, the drops in this game are piss poor (at least until you reach level 60 and get to inferno supposedly) in relation to the difficulty and time spent finding them. It is very imbalanced.

???
AH is a necessity because the loot is not good? Did you ever play Diablo II solo? Diablo II solo loot was as bad, if not worse... that's why people played in 8 player games.

[Nystul]

???
AH is a necessity because the loot is not good? Did you ever play Diablo II solo? Diablo II solo loot was as bad, if not worse... that's why people played in 8 player games.

Perhaps social pressures of power gaming and trading changed Diablo II into something it wasn't originally conceived to be (in which case the auction house could do much worse to D3). I remember Diablo II before LOD pretty well. It wasn't very hard to get enough kit to handle hell difficulty. Some selective gambling (Hand of Broc anyone?) and shopping and getting a few nice jewelry drops and you were pretty much there. Before you finished normally difficulty even you might have enough kit for hell. Most dangerous thing in the game was getting cursed with that darn Iron Maiden. Boy that game sure changed a lot though...

[Concillian]

I remember trying to get my resists up without having a diamond shield. I also remember the Chaos sanc being dangerous solo, but a breeze with a group. synergy between players seemed better, maybe because I often played a paladin? I dunno, but there's only really War Cry and Mantras that seem like significant synergy in DIII.

[Elric of Grans]

There are other synergies. For example, Passives that give a bonus under X condition. If you have an ally who can create that condition for you, then you can free up skill slots for other purposes. For example, a Demon Hunter could get their Cull the Weak bonus from a Blizzard, allowing them to pick high-damage attacks over Slow-inducing ones. Definitely not the same as DII, but there is plenty of room for a party to create builds that complement each other.

[FireIceTalon]

Regarding the gold AH, it is a unfortunate necessity to use when you get to hell mode. I agree with you, finding your own loot is much more fun. The problem is, the drops in this game are piss poor (at least until you reach level 60 and get to inferno supposedly) in relation to the difficulty and time spent finding them. It is very imbalanced.

???
AH is a necessity because the loot is not good? Did you ever play Diablo II solo? Diablo II solo loot was as bad, if not worse... that's why people played in 8 player games.

Maybe so, but the difficulty curve on D2 (and D1 for that matter) is far less steep than on D3. Champions/Rares require expending ALOT of time, energy and in many cases downright frustration to get less-then stellar items. I did plenty of "Laz runs" on Diablo 1 to find my best items, along with clearing 16. Although the drops were rare as hell, you could do them on normal difficulty, so you only spent alot of time searching at worst, and if you were persistent enough you could do 100+ runs in a day. But the energy and frustration factor wasnt there since difficulty didnt matter. Also, I am pretty sure the drop rate or probability of finding the best items on D1 is higher than that of D3. In normal or nightmare, finding or even cratfing upgrades isnt too hard, but come hell difficulty, you WILL be using the AH - guaranteed.

[Chesspiece_face]

In normal or nightmare, finding or even cratfing upgrades isnt too hard, but come hell difficulty, you WILL be using the AH - guaranteed.

And here we go again. Assertion gets disproven in another thread? Solution: go to a different thread and assert the same thing!

The more you say something doesn't make it more true.

[FireIceTalon]

In normal or nightmare, finding or even cratfing upgrades isnt too hard, but come hell difficulty, you WILL be using the AH - guaranteed.

And here we go again. Assertion gets disproven in another thread? Solution: go to a different thread and assert the same thing!

The more you say something doesn't make it more true.

Too bad you never disproved it in the other thread, nor will you in this thread, or any future thread for that matter. For the simple fact that you can't disprove it. And that is all I will say on the issue - dont bother with a retort - I won't reply. Have a wonderful day.

[MongoJerry]

A few ideas of how to save D3

Interesting title, because it assumes that D3 requires saving. The game seems quite successful so far.

1. The game needs to be opened up. None of this follow the quest chains in order for the next area to be available. It needs to be a much more opened world, where all you need to do to progress to the next act is to kill the end boss. Yes, like in D2.

So, in your mind, the best way to make the game last longer for people is to make it so that they can skip all the content?

Are you aware that you can join a friend's game who is farther along than you in your specific difficulty all you want?

2. The gold AH. I don't care about the RMAH. However, the gold AH is defeating Diablo 3's biggest purpose.
That purpose is to look for loot. It takes 10 minutes to find an item on the AH that would normally take weeks or months to find by just killing things.
Item hunting is one of the two most important reasons why D1 and D2 were so popular, the other being smashing mobs. Those two are combined nicely when item hunting. If there is no incentive to item hunt, there is no incentive to kill things. Hunting the AH.... not so addictive.

Nope. Most people item hunted in DII, so that they could *trade* items for the item that they really wanted. It was very rare for someone to find the actual item they wanted by a drop. DII was a trading game for most players-- except that you had to deal with an inefficent bartering economy with no viable currency (stones of jordan? Perfect gems?) and the strong chance of dealing with scammers. The D3 auction house does exactly what most D2 players wanted -- allows people to trade the goods they find for the items that they really want in a secure and efficient way. This is a good thing.

We all know that the AH is here to stay. Therefore, what needs to be done is something like this:
When the new series of Legendaries and Sets come out (and they will, just like they did in D2), they should not be buyable through the AH.

Wonderful! So, if you want to obtain a good legendary or set item, you have to go back to using some sort of trade channel and deal with a bartering system or a 3rd party site to get it -- and deal with all the scammers as well. Good idea. Not.

3. Bnet chat rooms need to be redesigned and recreated. What we have now is a WOW inteface, however in WOW you are already surrounded by people, so this is fine.
In Diablo, the present Bnet interface is stifling and gives you a feeling of being isolated from the community, like you are playing SP instead of MP.
Community is one of the biggest reasons why D2 had so much staying power. This is very important.

You're saying that the D2 chat rooms were why D2 had staying power? Are you kidding me? The only thing good about the D2 chat rooms was the all-powerful Chat Gem.

4. Public games need to be more easily accessable. Period.

I see. So, a single click button that says "Public Games" that lets you instantly join a public game at the same quest phase as you is not accessible enough to you? Or, if you want to back-track a little, you can click on the "Change Quest" button to select an earlier quest and then click on "Public Games."

I suppose that Blizzard could implant a chip in your head that's connected by a wireless connection to your computer that would let you think "Public games" to go to them. That might save you from the hastle of clicking on the button.

5. Runes/runewords/jewels/charms. Yes, they are all from D2. Yes, we need some. As is, the items in the game are too plain. 12 years have spoiled gamers. We expect more than we did when D2 came out.

I believe that runes and jewels are a part of the plan. They have to hold something back for future patches and expansions. God, I hope they never bring back charms to clog up the inventory, however. What a terrible idea that was.

That's just some basic thoughts. There are more issues, of course. This does not take into account the numerous tech problems still plagueing the game. This does not address class balance or game difficulty.

It's funny that you make this statement and yet seem to hold D2 aloft as something idealic. D2 had tech problems that would seem catastrophic compared to the hiccups that D3 has had. And class balance and difficulty? It took years before the developers finally gave up and made every class and every build so powerful that it didn't matter what you played, because you could blow through everything in 8-player mode solo anyway.

D3 needs some tweeking in some places. That's to be expected of any new game. But overall, D3 is far and away a more polished game than D2 ever was even after years of patches that radically changed player skills and items. People are panicking about changes to certain skills that Blizzard has made over the last two weeks, but I'm actually amazed that the changes that have been needed haven't been nearly as drastic as those that constantly plagued D2.

Right now, the only thing that needs to happen is for players to start learning how to play a game that actually has some difficulty associated with it. Yes, I fully expect that in the coming months, Blizzard will start releasing items in Inferno difficulty that will make life there a little less difficult. However, right now, I'm glad that Blizzard actually released a game that has some challenge.

[Chesspiece_face]

Too bad you never disproved it in the other thread, nor will you in this thread, or any future thread for that matter. For the simple fact that you can't disprove it. And that is all I will say on the issue - dont bother with a retort - I won't reply. Have a wonderful day.

You don't need to reply. This was enough. And it's the same thing you did in the last thread. You throw out a bunch of falacious examples to try to rationalize your displeasure with the loot system and then when people give evidence that contradicts your assertions you throw your hands over your ears and shout "LALALALALAL Can't hear you!" Which is fine.

You don't like the system that is your point of view. I have no interest in convincing you to like something you dont. But if you feel the need to keep coming back with the same tired examples which are unsustainable I will keep coming back to tell you how full of crap you are.

[FireIceTalon]

I would really like a custom games system, like in D1 or D2, to be implemented. Public games are accessible but they are random. I would really like to be able to create a game with a personal title (public or passworded) that my friends can specifically join if they want to or if I invite them. Same with the channels really, where I can chat with my friends in a channel that one of us created. Also, the chat text needs to be made MUCH larger. You almost need a damn microscope to read both chat in channels and in-game.

[RTM]

The chat system definitely needs work. I would love to have te ability to join a global channel similar to /g in WoW where you could idle while killing things. Chatting with friends kept me playing WoW longer than I would have otherwise and I think it would be a fantastic addition.

[Roland]

I would really like to be able to create a game with a personal title (public or passworded) that my friends can specifically join if they want to or if I invite them.

Your friends can join any game you are in so long as you have that option checked (or unchecked, I forget) in your options. Otherwise, only people you specifically invite can enter your games. Short of being able to make Public games with specific titles for specific intent (i.e. Trading, Azmodan runs, whatever) there's no need for the function. The current implementation is miles beyond what D2 had to offer, and for the better.

The chat system definitely needs work. I would love to have te ability to join a global channel similar to /g in WoW where you could idle while killing things. Chatting with friends kept me playing WoW longer than I would have otherwise and I think it would be a fantastic addition.

They have a general chat channel like in wow. It's called /General. Look in your chat window when you first log on or create a game. It's right there in a big hint.

[Treesh]

The chat system definitely needs work. I would love to have te ability to join a global channel similar to /g in WoW where you could idle while killing things. Chatting with friends kept me playing WoW longer than I would have otherwise and I think it would be a fantastic addition.

They have a general chat channel like in wow. It's called /General. Look in your chat window when you first log on or create a game. It's right there in a big hint.

And like the general chat channel in WoW, it's a cesspool. =) I think what RTM is looking for is a custom chat channel that you can make and hang out with your friends instead and that isn't in the current UI.

[Chesspiece_face]

They have a general chat channel like in wow. It's called /General. Look in your chat window when you first log on or create a game. It's right there in a big hint.

I'm pretty sure RTM is more referring to a Guild or Clan chat channel although I could be wrong. It's quite possible that they will introduce something of this nature later around the time PvP goes in. My understanding is that the big hold-up for PvP isn't necessarily gameplay issues, but infrastructure. It's understandable that they would want to put it off so they can flesh out stuff like persistent teams/clans and everything else that goes with a professional class PvP environment nowadays.

[Roland]

I'm pretty sure RTM is more referring to a Guild or Clan chat channel although I could be wrong. It's quite possible that they will introduce something of this nature later around the time PvP goes in. My understanding is that the big hold-up for PvP isn't necessarily gameplay issues, but infrastructure. It's understandable that they would want to put it off so they can flesh out stuff like persistent teams/clans and everything else that goes with a professional class PvP environment nowadays.

From what I understand, they don't care about "professional" PvP. It's going to be for fun only, not some competitive event. As for Guild Chat, yes that would be nice. I'm sure we'll see something like that in a patch eventually. For now, I'm more concerned with the AH.

[RTM]

I think what RTM is looking for is a custom chat channel that you can make and hang out with your friends instead and that isn't in the current UI.

Yes, this. I shouldn't have used the word 'global'. I joined that channel once. It was exactly as I expected it to be.

[DeeBye]

4. Public games need to be more easily accessable. Period.

I don't understand this objection at all. I've always been able to join a Public game within a few seconds, for whatever quest I want.

[Chesspiece_face]

From what I understand, they don't care about "professional" PvP. It's going to be for fun only, not some competitive event. As for Guild Chat, yes that would be nice. I'm sure we'll see something like that in a patch eventually. For now, I'm more concerned with the AH.

I think this is a commonly misrepresented possition. From what I've seen weighing all of the available comments by Blizzard representatives is that they are very interested in creating an environment that lends itself to "professional" PvP. What they are not interested in is actively investing or promoting it like they did in WoW. In WoW they essentially took their weight and shoved it around into the professional competitive gaming scene forcing it to be included into the tournament scenes by doing most, if not all, of the promotion by themselves. And after investing all of that into WoW arena it still faded out. They aren't going to repeat that.

They do, however, still want the PvP to be fun and engaging and hope that if there is a strong infrastructure that lends itself to professional competetive play the players themselves will create the competitive scene.