6 Skill limitation
#1
Right now, reading through the Wizard skills, I'm dazzled by all of the possible skills and am amazed that I only get to choose 6 of them to use -- especially as I'll be playing hardcore, I want a lot of the different defensive and passive abilities. How easy is it to swap skills in and out of my six slots? Can you create different skill profiles -- like "AOE profile," "Single target profile," "Diablo profile," etc.?
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#2
You can change skill types at any time as long as you have "Elective Mode" selected, which can be found under the Options menu if I'm not mistaken. This allows you to select skills of any type, whereas w/o Elective Mode selected, you would be limited to using a skill under each category type. Don't forget, you also get to choose 3 "passive" skills also, so its really 9 skills total that you can use at a given time, assuming you have unlocked them. I don't think skill profiles are available yet (I may be wrong about this).
https://www.youtube.com/user/FireIceTalon


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#3
Skill profiles are not available. I don't think that there are current publicly known plans to add them, unfortunately.

Guild Wars treated its players well in this regard, but fairly late in its lifetime. I hope Diablo III gets similar, and much sooner in both relative and absolute terms.
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#4
(05-14-2012, 07:11 AM)RedRadical Wrote: You can change skill types at any time as long as you have "Elective Mode" selected, which can be found under the Options menu if I'm not mistaken.

This should be in a sticky, in bold, in everyone's signature, etc. I suppose I can understand why they did this, but the game opens up SO much more when you realize that you can put any skill you want on any hotkey you want.
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#5
(05-14-2012, 11:21 AM)RTM Wrote:
(05-14-2012, 07:11 AM)RedRadical Wrote: You can change skill types at any time as long as you have "Elective Mode" selected, which can be found under the Options menu if I'm not mistaken.

This should be in a sticky, in bold, in everyone's signature, etc. I suppose I can understand why they did this, but the game opens up SO much more when you realize that you can put any skill you want on any hotkey you want.

With the caveat that you have to still level up to open up the hot key to actually put a skill in that spot. For example at level 1, your starter skill is on a mouse button and none of the other hot keys are open to switch the skill to. IIRC, the second skill and hot key (other mouse button) then open up. So if one of these first skills is one that you rather not have linked onto the same mouse button click that you will be using for movement, then you will have to wait till later to move it to one the other 4 button keys open up. And you cannot change the keybinds on the mouse buttons, so you are stuck with those two controls. Welcome to a game designed with a console controller in mind for its use.
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#6
(05-14-2012, 11:21 AM)RTM Wrote:
(05-14-2012, 07:11 AM)RedRadical Wrote: You can change skill types at any time as long as you have "Elective Mode" selected, which can be found under the Options menu if I'm not mistaken.

This should be in a sticky, in bold, in everyone's signature, etc. I suppose I can understand why they did this, but the game opens up SO much more when you realize that you can put any skill you want on any hotkey you want.

My mind is BLOWN by this. It's spinning with possibilities that I want to try. I can't wait to replace Evasive Shot with Preparation on my DH.
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#7
Have you seen this post?
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4241234476

I doubt they'll implement skill profiles. They're really pushing towards not changing skills around too much. The way they're implementing Nephalem Valor to drop whenever you change a skill, rune, or passive really demonstrates how committed they are to wanting people to have one skill build at high level. A feature that makes skill / passive / runs switching easier is completely counter to this, so I'm doubting they'll implement that kind of thing anytime soon.
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Terenas WoW player... while we waited for Diablo III.
And it came... and it went... and I played Hearthstone longer than Diablo III.
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#8
(05-18-2012, 06:26 PM)Concillian Wrote: Have you seen this post?
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4241234476

I doubt they'll implement skill profiles. They're really pushing towards not changing skills around too much. The way they're implementing Nephalem Valor to drop whenever you change a skill, rune, or passive really demonstrates how committed they are to wanting people to have one skill build at high level. A feature that makes skill / passive / runs switching easier is completely counter to this, so I'm doubting they'll implement that kind of thing anytime soon.

However, even with all that, I like that you *can* change things around on-the-fly if you want. For example, for the end boss of Act IV, I replaced my AoE stuff with defensive and/or single-target stuff. It's one of the best features of D3, imo, but, otoh, I'm happy with six skills.

As far as a skill-switcher, I'm not really sure it's needed. It's only six skills, nine if you change passives, too, so it's not like remembering a whole D2 or WoW talent tree.
--Mav
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#9
(05-18-2012, 06:26 PM)Concillian Wrote: Have you seen this post?
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4241234476

I doubt they'll implement skill profiles. They're really pushing towards not changing skills around too much. The way they're implementing Nephalem Valor to drop whenever you change a skill, rune, or passive really demonstrates how committed they are to wanting people to have one skill build at high level. A feature that makes skill / passive / runs switching easier is completely counter to this, so I'm doubting they'll implement that kind of thing anytime soon.

Thanks for the link, that was very interesting. I really like the idea of Valor to encourage people to not "min/max" their MFing as much. I admit I was guilty of doing countless Meph runs in D2 but it's hard to resist when it's so incredibly superior to any other solo MFing technique. I hope it doesn't just end up being the same approach to the same boss that somehow ends up being by far the best MFing spot.

I would still like to see skill profiles to streamline switching between roles in different party situations. Especially if they tied your gear loadout into it.
"Just as individuals are born, mature, breed and die, so do societies, civilizations and governments."
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#10
(05-18-2012, 06:26 PM)Concillian Wrote: Have you seen this post?
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4241234476

I doubt they'll implement skill profiles. They're really pushing towards not changing skills around too much. The way they're implementing Nephalem Valor to drop whenever you change a skill, rune, or passive really demonstrates how committed they are to wanting people to have one skill build at high level. A feature that makes skill / passive / runs switching easier is completely counter to this, so I'm doubting they'll implement that kind of thing anytime soon.

Even though I'm a far way off this affecting me, the problem I can see with Valor is that bosses are practically a whole different ballgame compared to the trash leading up to it. A typical crowd-killing build isn't going to work on a solo boss.

For instance, I ran pretty much the last two acts with this build. Chews through trash like Skittles, but against Azmodan? Useless. Against Diablo? Equally useless. Grasp doesn't do much damage against bosses, Soul Harvest is extremely situational against a single target, and Horrify is completely useless.

On the other hand, this worked absolutely fine even if I did have to spend a lot of time running around waiting for Zombie Dogs to come off cooldown so I could explode them again and again and again and again, but it does have its problems in the 'tween-boss trash corridors; gah.

The problem with Nephalem Valor is that for it to be an actually viable reward-boosting buff, all builds will have to be equal for all situations. You select your six skills, optional runes, and three passives and then be able to run through the game with equal effectiveness whether you're facing Act I zombies or Inferno Diablo. Now to me, that sounds like Blizzard is just encouraging cookie-cutter builds, which seems to be something they've been trying to discourage throughout.
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#11
That might kinda be the point. It's an extra reward you get if you don't switch to the ideal set of skills depending on what you're facing.
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#12
Yeah, they clearly know that there are better skill combos for different situations, they want you to pick something you're comfortable with and stick with it.

The really strange thing is that Nephalem Valor is a 30 minute buff that disappears if you leave the game, switch skills, or move to a new Act... but persists through death.

They want you to keep the same skill so badly that they want you to play, die, and respawn rather than switch to a more optimal setup? That seems really backwards to me. I would have thought death would take the buff away.
Conc / Concillian -- Vintage player of many games. Deadly leader of the All Pally Team (or was it Death leader?)
Terenas WoW player... while we waited for Diablo III.
And it came... and it went... and I played Hearthstone longer than Diablo III.
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#13
(05-19-2012, 09:50 PM)NiteFox Wrote: Even though I'm a far way off this affecting me, the problem I can see with Valor is that bosses are practically a whole different ballgame compared to the trash leading up to it. A typical crowd-killing build isn't going to work on a solo boss.

I thought this way too, but after normal the concern is the champion packs and random uniques with their minions. So you need an AoE build with some kind of single target anyway because you are going to want the regular trash to get out of the way (AoE) while you are taking down the minions or one of the champions with semi focus and the AoE of course helps with all of it. The scripted/standard/always there bosses aren't really the concern anymore and you'll be able to deal with them, effectively enough.

To relate more specifically to the WD, I settled on a build much like this for my hardcore witch doctor in later normal early NM (I'm only 34 right now). The key is that acid rain, while a bit mana heavy for damage works well on both crowds and single mobs so it can still be used with effect on the Act bosses. Haunt is perhaps the best single target spell a doctor has for things that have HP. While losing the temporary damage buffs seems like it's going to be a problem you can get around it well enough. Gruesome feast may still be better for this style and spiritual attunement but I'm still testing. I've used this build in a 2 player game soloing (so no merc) and been able to take down a champion back and a unique. I know it worked fine on normal Act IV bosses (I had feast and not attunement rune runed spirit walk as mana regen works relatively well though adds risk of it being on CD when you need an escape).

In early nightmare with everything getting a big HP boost so single target spells gain some value for weeding/finishing stragglers after AoE or DoT applications (depends on class).

All that being said I'm still with you. I'd like to be able to change skill sets at time, I've stated elsewhere I'd like to have unlimited hot keys like in D2 (I would quite often have 30+ skills keyed and I would use them, of course it was the necro that tended to use the most but other classes used more than 6).

But the skills are strategies in this game, choosing what you are limiting yourself too and then figuring out the best tactics to make that work I think is part of what Blizzard intended with the design.

I still think the Valor buff works oddly but in a way it might encourage grouping and playing together too. In a group you can more safely narrow your skill focus to something and rely on party mates to pick up the slack in situations your build is weak at. This allows valor to get stacked for the benefit of getting better drops and with the new loot system it helps maximize loot per time too (since groups quite likely get through the game faster and with 2+ people getting different loot the odds of any one person in the group getting something they want goes up too), since magic find is averaged out over the party it even allows for a couple of people in the group to really stack it and likely means that you can be viable with a higher level of MF than if you were solo.

I think Blizzard has done several things to encourage playing together in D3 as opposed to just getting more people in the game and everyone doing their own thing that D2 encouraged. The loot drop changes the PvP changes, the limited skills so that having someone else be able to cover for your weaknesses, etc. The game (after normal) seems harder than D2 (though with less one shot gotchas than D2 had). Valor I think plays to that too.

At least that is the only way I really see the way the buff is designed making sense.

From a single player stand point where changing skills for situations really is the optimal way to play it makes no sense at all.

The business standpoint to wanting you to keep playing with other people? If you have friends in the game you are more likely to keep playing the game. If you keep playing the game you are more likely to use the RMAH. Even if you are sharing with each other you'll get good stuff that isn't as good as what everyone else has and hey why not put it on the RMAH? Blizzard makes a buck when someone buys it.

That's my theory behind the design at least. I haven't thought a lot about it, so I might be wrapping my head around it completely wrong and haven't spotted it.
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#14
If people were afraid of dying and losing the buff, they'd just change their skills and take out the death risk anyway.
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