So, Skyrim's out 11/11/11

[Zyn]

level 21(22?) Assassin currently, just joined the Dark Brotherhood and have done a few contracts for them. I have honestly barely touched the main quest line - I simply just have been exploring while walking from side quest to side quest and talking to as many NPCs as possible.

It took me 3-4 hours to do a single Dark Brotherhood quest last night simply because of all the things that I was sidetracked by when en route. Not in a negative way, more like a "Hey whats that on the horizon? Lemme go check it out"

Dragon battles are fun, and just sporadic enough to make them still feel special. Overall, the game feels like it's more than worth the money - Ill get years of playtime out of it just trying to be a completionist.

-Z

[Lissa]

Just remember, Thulsa Broom

Dragon battles are fun, and just sporadic enough to make them still feel special.

-Z

And Dragons may see special, but watch out.

[Rhydderch Hael]

Just remember, Thulsa Broom

Dragon battles are fun, and just sporadic enough to make them still feel special.

-Z

And Dragons may see special, but watch out.

Par for the course. In Oblivion, the mob of Clannfear in Arkved's Tower were far more lethal than Mehrunes Dagon. And the Liches of the Vahtacen treasure hall were especially nasty if you're nothing more than a stick-waving mage in a robe.

Fun fact about that: before one of the patches, what you faced in Vahtacen were Gloom Wraiths or other forms of ghosts. Scary, but not all that dangerous for an adept of the Mages' Guild. Turning the enemies into Liches was a game-changer indeed.

[Treesh]

Dragon battles are fun, and just sporadic enough to make them still feel special.

There's one poor guy I know of who seems to have a game where whenever it is possible for a dragon to spawn, it will. He's deemed dragons "Cliffracers 2.0" =)

---

And Dragons may see special, but watch out.

The mammoths can be fairly ouchy in their own right, at least at lower levels. Haven't tried it at a higher than 15. But at least the mammoths don't one shot you so you're dead before you even hit the ground.

[Roland]

How do you do a power attack? I see in the perks that it exists, but I'm not sure how to actually pull it off. My melee combat so far has consisted of wildly flailing around until either the bad guy or myself falls over.

Power attacks are done by moving in a direction while holding the attack button. That is what's meant by a forwards / backwards / sideways power attack.

Well, apparently what I sold back to him wasn't what I stole from him in the first place because he's not buying my stolen goods now. Bugger.

Edit: Even the stuff I pickpocketed from folks in the inn he won't take. Guess I'll just have to find the thieves guild. *shakes her fist at Bethesda*

There's two Perks in the Speech tree that allow you to sell stolen items to almost anyone. The first is Investor, which allows you to invest gold in shops in order to increase the available funds they have. The other is Fence, which allows you to sell stolen goods to any Merchant you've invested in. Both are pretty high in the Speech tree (70 and 90 respectively), so unless you really plan on making a fortune thieving you may want to hold off until the late game (post level 50), or bypass such Perks entirely.

Edit2: After finally sitting down and actually PLAYING instead of just messing around with five million new characters, crafting, thievery stuffs, and general learning, this game really does beat Oblivion hands down. Not actually choosing anything beyond race at the beginning was a little odd for me and some other minor control things made it feel like it wasn't a TES game, but the playstyle is still there. The flexibility is still there. And I don't have to play as a silly mage just to feel like I can be effective. I like the melee combat in this one better because, while you still can move to get different power strikes in, that's not the sole purpose of the movement. Plus, I LOVE that whole bash deal to knock 'em off balance enough to really land a good, hard power strike. You bash by holding the block key and tapping the attack key. It just feels like better melee. Although I still prefer to open with a bowshot from stealth. =D

Bethesda, much MUCH improvement on Oblivion, especially with not having the retarded mob leveling system. This means I definitely have a game that will tide me over until D3 and I don't have to keep paying for RIFT to get crafting done either. =) Oh! And on the plus side, you can actually get upgrades from the dungeon loot instead of being stuck with the same crap for level after level after level so I get a little "Oooh! What dropped?" bit too. Although I still haven't found an enchanter's altar/table thingy yet, but I also haven't looked too closely for one either. =)

All in all, definitely worth it. It will be even more worth it when they release the Creation Kit (previously known as the construction set) and I can fiddle around again. =D

*does a happy dance around the room before leaving to beat the ever living crap out of nasty undead things*

By the way, going through all the damned spider webs in the dungeons literally made me do one of those all over body shakes to get rid of the creepy crawly feeling. HATE spiders.

I am loving this game so far. BTW - have you tried out Cooking yet? In addition to Smithing and Alchemy (be sure to catch the fish in the rivers / lakes, and the dragonflies above the water, and the butterflies on the land - they're all ingredients! Oh, and bees in beehives), there's also Cooking, Woodcutting (mostly used to sell Firewood to certain NPCs for about 5 gold a pop), Mining (for ores and gems), and there's grindstones to use for milling, but I have yet to figure out how they work.

Also, there's an Enchanter's Table in a cave nearby the starting area - I forget if it's closer to Riverdell or Whiterun, but it's not far off. There's also one in a secret room in the Riverdell tavern, but you'll find that soon enough. Raising your Smithing level allows you to improve the quality of your arms and armor (if you hit a new tier, you can improve them to the next tier, as well) - but you probably knew that. Also of note is that certain ingredients react better together than others when making potions, so be sure to look at the output values before combining! Oh, and experimentation is good! You can unlock other known affects of items simply by combining two together that share properties - even if they aren't known! Combining Wheat & Blue Mountain Flower, for example, leads to a potion that not only restores Health, but also Fortifies it! And there's a Resist Frost combination that also fortifies Heavy Armor.

As to Skyrim itself, I find some things really confusing such as assigning perks. Every time I level up I get some message about the number of perks which are now unlocked but have no clue in how to choose one. I can scroll through the various perks, some of which my character does not have the levels required to select but even for those he does (eg "barbarian") there seems to be no way to select it. I push on the mouse key and it just scrolls to the next perk. I definitely do not like the inability to assign various weapons to hotkeys. To switch you have to hit "Q" and scroll down your list of "favorites" with your somewhat unresponsive mouse. I suppose the controls are an example of the game being "consolized" (yet another new word I have just come across).

I don't know why you're having that problem. I have had no issues selecting skill perks. Just scroll over to the one you want (i.e. have it highlighted), and then click on it to add a point. The game will prompt you to make sure you want to invest in that perk, and that's it.

Personally, I'm saving several of my Perk points for later use, and also because I haven't finalized my character plan. Actually playing the game has made me rethink a couple Perks I had in mind to take, so for now I'm just cruising along, investing only when I feel a need (i.e. more Bow damage, better Sneaking, or better Light Armor rating).

[Thenryb]

@Roland -I finally figured it out. I was trying to use the left mouse key to select the perk instead of using the E key.

[Treesh]

Well, apparently what I sold back to him wasn't what I stole from him in the first place because he's not buying my stolen goods now. Bugger.

Edit: Even the stuff I pickpocketed from folks in the inn he won't take. Guess I'll just have to find the thieves guild. *shakes her fist at Bethesda*

There's two Perks in the Speech tree that allow you to sell stolen items to almost anyone. The first is Investor, which allows you to invest gold in shops in order to increase the available funds they have. The other is Fence, which allows you to sell stolen goods to any Merchant you've invested in. Both are pretty high in the Speech tree (70 and 90 respectively), so unless you really plan on making a fortune thieving you may want to hold off until the late game (post level 50), or bypass such Perks entirely.

Blasphemy! Holding off on thievery?! Unthinkable! I just pass things off to Lydia to hold until I can get back to the house. Although I have found out that we can both end up overloaded. She does sigh so whenever I ask her to carry things for me though. I bet she wishes I'd just buy a mule and wagon.

I am loving this game so far. BTW - have you tried out Cooking yet? In addition to Smithing and Alchemy (be sure to catch the fish in the rivers / lakes, and the dragonflies above the water, and the butterflies on the land - they're all ingredients! Oh, and bees in beehives), there's also Cooking, Woodcutting (mostly used to sell Firewood to certain NPCs for about 5 gold a pop), Mining (for ores and gems), and there's grindstones to use for milling, but I have yet to figure out how they work.

Yes, I catch everything since I saw that I could catch that first butterfly that was right outside where you come out from escaping. =) It was a pretty little thing so I just got closer to look at it and saw the "Capture butterfly". Now I basically drop whatever I'm doing to go catch the lightning bugs, sorry, Torch bugs or moths or whatever little thing flits across my view. Which is how I ended up straying too close to an encampment of giants.

Also, there's an Enchanter's Table in a cave nearby the starting area - I forget if it's closer to Riverdell or Whiterun, but it's not far off. There's also one in a secret room in the Riverdell tavern, but you'll find that soon enough. Raising your Smithing level allows you to improve the quality of your arms and armor (if you hit a new tier, you can improve them to the next tier, as well) - but you probably knew that. Also of note is that certain ingredients react better together than others when making potions, so be sure to look at the output values before combining! Oh, and experimentation is good! You can unlock other known affects of items simply by combining two together that share properties - even if they aren't known! Combining Wheat & Blue Mountain Flower, for example, leads to a potion that not only restores Health, but also Fortifies it! And there's a Resist Frost combination that also fortifies Heavy Armor.

I just end up using the one in the castle in Whiterun. I'm already making the Elven stuff. About the alchemy stuff, I'm so very glad they went back to more of a Morrowind like system than the craptacular Oblivion system. It's much more fun to be able to actually discover, through experimentation, just what effects each thing has. I hated it in Oblivion that you couldn't make a potion using the tertiary/quaternary effects until you got your skill high enough. This is so much more realistic and natural.

The best new improvement they've made (or at least the one I was the MOST excited about when I discovered it) was that you can actually USE the weapon racks as weapon racks. You can actually put books on the shelves, properly standing up and with spines facing out, without having to drop, drag, curse when you knock over a book next to it. Plus, each shelf in a bookcase is separate so you can REALLY organize your books. If I had known this fact before, I would have saved all my books. I'll just have to have this girl be the experimenter and then bring up another one later to do things "right". =D

I swear, at work, I'm a walking advertising campaign for this game. Love it. Can't wait until they bring out the Creation Kit again so I can fiddle with that and see what improvements they've made for that too. =)

[kandrathe]

Which is how I ended up straying too close to an encampment of giants.

For me... it was Lydia. We were on our way to visit the grey beards, when along the road, I got off the path a bit and strayed too close. I see the giant just as he bellows at me, and so I was back peddling. But, Lydia charges right in with her two handed war hammer, so... I am thinking maybe she figures we can handle this one. But, a minute later I seem to be dead, and flying through the air half way back to Whiterun.

So, later, on the way up the mountain, I see an Ice Troll ahead... I say to her, "You stay here and I'll check it out."

<Reload after getting butt kicked>

So, later, on the way up the mountain, I see an Ice Troll ahead... I say to her, "You rush in, and I'll flank him and we'll get him together."

<Reload after getting butt kicked>

So, later, on the way up the mountain, I see an Ice Troll ahead... I say to her, "Let's just sneak around this one off the path."

But, yes, I'm enjoying the game greatly. I'm level 8 now, and am working my way up in stature as a Companion. I'm attempting to make a more of a battle mage, and so far my skills are in one handed blades, shields, destruction, restoration, and smithing. On the main quest I'm completing the last quest for the grey beards to retrieve the horn.

[Kevin]

So, later, on the way up the mountain, I see an Ice Troll ahead... I say to her, "You stay here and I'll check it out."

<Reload after getting butt kicked>

So, later, on the way up the mountain, I see an Ice Troll ahead... I say to her, "You rush in, and I'll flank him and we'll get him together."

<Reload after getting butt kicked>

So, later, on the way up the mountain, I see an Ice Troll ahead... I say to her, "Let's just sneak around this one off the path."

But, yes, I'm enjoying the game greatly. I'm level 8 now, and am working my way up in stature as a Companion. I'm attempting to make a more of a battle mage, and so far my skills are in one handed blades, shields, destruction, restoration, and smithing. On the main quest I'm completing the last quest for the grey beards to retrieve the horn.

I hear a noise I go into stealth. I see the ice troll through the blizzard that was happening on the mountain. I load up dual firebolts Lydia pulls out her Orcish long bow that I gave her. I blast it a few times (till I'm out of magica), Lydia pulls out the two hander and finishes it off, I move along. Giving Lydia a bow and using stealth from time to time has proven to be one of the best ways to utilize her for me.

My horse on the other hand....

On the way to the college at Winterhold I see some folks in a tower. I get off my horse and Lydia and I start sneaking up to them. I kill a couple then I hear my horse making noises and the sounds of combat. I run up the tower to see my horse halfway up the stairs fighting the bandit leader. So I dispatch him and then end up having to jump out one of the windows while mounted because I could not ride the horse down the stairs properly.

That horse was not worth the gold.

I've only tried to kill a giant once got it to about half health, it killed me and I decided to not try again since it was getting late (real time) and I wanted to finish the run to Winterhold. I have killed a few mammoths (which seem to have as much if not more health than the giants but they don't hit as hard) and a couple of dragons now. Still only L12. Destruction just doesn't move quickly as a dual firebolts with a couple of perks in the destruction tree one shot most things unless they are "named". I actually think speech at 32 or so is my highest skill right now. Alchemy and smithing are rapidly catching up though.

I was planning on her being a full time mage but I've decided to not save perks, I have to spend them as soon as I get them so they end up in the skills that are high enough. Basically she is becoming what she does. This is a sign the game is better than Oblivion and Morrowind in an important way for me. Doing that in those games would have made me feel horribly gimped. This game just playing it "organically" works very well. I'm a Breton gal who is just making do with what I can find in this crazy situation I've found myself in.

[Treesh]

The ice troll is SO familiar. =) I love Lydia, but man, sometimes she's a little too aggressive.

I was trying to get the bard to leave the single mother (she has the only good child in the entirety of Skyrim, I swear) alone in Whiterun. Lydia was with me. He wouldn't listen to persuasion so I had to brawl with him. Well, I don't know if a wild swing of mine hit an innocent bystander or if Lydia just was drunk and disorderly or what, but the next thing I knew, bounties were just scrolling across the upper corner. I looked and Lydia was taking on the entire bar. *facepalms* So, that was a reload, tell her to stay outside the bar until she learns how to behave herself in bars. Although, that is where I met my wife and yes, my character is female. Yay for Bethesda allowing same sex marriages. =D

[Roland]

The ice troll is SO familiar. =) I love Lydia, but man, sometimes she's a little too aggressive.

Wait until you hit the Labyrinth on the way to dealing with the Greybeards. I snuck past three of the bastards. Killing 1 was tough, but doable. Killing 3? No thanks. The regen too quickly for an archer who has to relocate every 2 shots to avoid dying to their beastly claws.

Yay for Bethesda allowing same sex marriages. =D

Damn straight (although my character - a male - will definitely be picking up a female ). About time someone allowed it.

I haven't dealt with Lydia yet. I left her in Dragonsreach, but now that I bought a home (and fully decked it out) she's moved in - and spends all her time sitting in my bedroom! It's a little creepy when she always greets me with wanting to serve me... although I suppose I could turn that around into something more positive.

Anyway, my own tales of glory. Last night I killed 5 dragons. In the span of about 2 hours. I went and killed a named dragon as part of a quest - lots of fun, loving the main quest so far. Immediately afterwards I signed off to go play World of Tanks with the Basin crew (we kicked ass, BTW). When that was all done, I hopped back on to finish collecting some leftover items I couldn't carry. When I went back to that dragon corpse, though, there was a random spawn waiting for me! So I downed him, collected it all, and then went in search of a nearby dragon site with a word of power. Went there, killed the dragon, got the word (Frost, Cold - second word in the shout). Again, ran out of room, so after clearing out my inventory (I have this problem often) I fast-traveled back... to the wrong dragon site. There were two dragon sites near one another which had words of power. I warped to one I had cleared earlier, and low and behold the dragon had respawned! Well, I finished him off nicely, then found the other corpse I meant to travel too and finished up with all that. After wandering the area for a couple hours (I think I raked in about 50 Jay Berries, or whatever they're called, almost 200 Dragon's Tongue and about 100 Creep Clusters - not a bad haul!), I bought my house and started moving my collected items from Riverdell to Whiterun. Around the 2nd time I visited, yet another dragon spawned in Riverdell (third time for me), so I downed that one too.

Needless to say, there was much dragon killing last night. I even killed a Giant on the way to the named dragon quest - just because he was there, and I felt like it. The whole dragon random spawns is almost making the novelty wear off, and they're certainly not as fearsome in combat as they appear flying above, roaring and spewing fire or frost, but overall I'm pleased with the mechanic. There is SO MUCH to explore in this game, from the grandest mountains to the tiniest cluster of shrubs for ingredients. Do you know I found a trio of Hunters (2 female, 1 male) bathing in a natural hot spring lagoon? I kid you not! The exploration of this game is phenomenal, and easily more than half the enjoyment I'm deriving out of the game. There's just so much to do, it's impossible to get bored. Tired of questing? Run around! Tired of running around? Take your crafting materials and make some weapons & armor! Sell all your wares for cash. Mix potions and poisons for future use. All that time you're skilling up, growing in power, while doing leisure activities! I raised two levels last night, mostly from tradeskills (Smithing & Alchemy), and am very close to yet another level. As for Perks, unlike GG I'm saving several - I have 6 or 7 in the bank at present. I have a very clear goal for my character, so I'm only spending what I need to to stay on a relatively even keel. There were times I was underpowered, but a few Perks and a couple new items (unlocked via leveling) from the blacksmiths ensured I'm no longer weak. I can't wait to start crafting poisons in larger numbers, and with significantly stronger benefits - not that I've needed them at all so far. I also have... 4 shouts? unlocked. The complete Unrelenting Force, Aura Whisper (a more powerful version of Detect Life that shows ALL creatures - living and undead), the sprinting one, and the Frost one (which spits out a big ball of frost that envelops the enemy, and deals damage up front as well as over time). I love climbing around and finding the different dragon roosts that house the words of power. I've found several standing stones and daedric shrines, too!

The biggest downside I see to the game is the level-locking of the dungeons, so I'm trying to avoid as much of them as I can (although hopefully the open world areas that I've explored don't follow the same rules - i.e. bandit & giant camps, etc.), but it's difficult. If not for there being so much to occupy me without dungeon diving, I'd probably notice the loss more, but as it stands right now it's just something greater to look forward to. I'm about to hit level 17, IIRC, and aside from the poor pathfinding and numerous glitches I'm loving almost everything about the game. Definitely worth the investment, and will easily tide me over until D3 comes out - and well beyond!

Glad to see others enjoying the game so much. I intend to do a big run of exploring tonight - once I finish up this last little bit of the main quest I have hanging - so hopefully I can unlock one or two more words of power. I'd love to finish off that Frost one!

Edit:
Oh, that reminds me! To go along with kandrathe's Frost Troll story, I'll share my own experience. The first time I tried to climb the mountain, a dragon spawned - not even a quarter of the way up. Promptly killed me, and I reloaded... and decided to wait a few levels before daring to venture up again - for fear that it was part of the trials of reaching the Greybeards! Little did I know it was just a random spawn, although I found much humor in the irony regardless.

[LochnarITB]

As yet, I have not picked up the game. I was hoping there would be a playable demo to get a feel of it, before dropping very limited cash on it, but that is not to be due to its size and complexity. So, a question. In the past, I've had great fun with games where you manage every detail. The talk here seems to be that the fun is found doing so in this one. I'm afraid I don't have the patience for doing so anymore. Is there room in this game to basically "kill stuff and grab loot"? It certainly looks gorgeous, and for once I think I have a machine that might do OK with the latest and greatest, but I fear it might be too futzy for me to make any progress. Thumbs up or thumbs down - your opinions (well most of them anyway ) are greatly appreciated.


[edit] I've watched the three part official "demo" video, but that is another reason I feel like it might be too much micromanaging for me to enjoy anymore. It feels like it is being run by a very practiced hand and thus hides a lot of the possibly overabundant detail management required.

[Treesh]

As yet, I have not picked up the game. I was hoping there would be a playable demo to get a feel of it, before dropping very limited cash on it, but that is not to be due to its size and complexity. So, a question. In the past, I've had great fun with games where you manage every detail. The talk here seems to be that the fun is found doing so in this one. I'm afraid I don't have the patience for doing so anymore. Is there room in this game to basically "kill stuff and grab loot"? It certainly looks gorgeous, and for once I think I have a machine that might do OK with the latest and greatest, but I fear it might be too futzy for me to make any progress. Thumbs up or thumbs down - your opinions (well most of them anyway ) are greatly appreciated.


[edit] I've watched the three part official "demo" video, but that is another reason I feel like it might be too much micromanaging for me to enjoy anymore. It feels like it is being run by a very practiced hand and thus hides a lot of the possibly overabundant detail management required.

The only real micromanaging I do is placing my perks, swapping between a bow, a two-hander and dual-wielded healing. I don't worry as much about Lydia's health anymore because once the critters get her crawling on her hands and knees because she's so hurt, they just leave her alone. The crafting is similar to WoW. Get mats, go craft, sell the results, with the exception that you don't really see the "if I make two yellow recipes instead of the one orange one that is all I have mats for, I have the chance for two skillups" and "I only have mats for grey skillups". If you make it, you get progress in the skill.

When you've grabbed more than your carrying capacity, you aren't rooted in one place. You can still move about, just at a slow walk and you can't fast travel. So there's not much inventory management either unless it bugs you to have to walk. And even then, I load up Lydia (who has her own carrying capacity) and keep going.

Now, if you're planning on playing a magic user, there's a little bit more micromanagement with spells, but it's not bad. They just aim differently than arrows since the spells just have a straight trajectory and aren't affected by gravity like arrows are.

Maybe I'm missing something or thinking of micromanagement in a different way than you are, but I really find that I just get to fire up the game, do whatever I want, and then end the game when it's time for bed or time for work. =) I feel no need to min/max. When you level up you choose if you want to increase your health, magicka, or stamina and where you put your perk. That's it.

Oh! And my machine is at the minimum requirements. The video is set on high quality when it went through and did its little autodetect dealy. I'd probably knock it down a little bit lower if I were playing it on the PC rather than Xbox simply because even with the look sensitivity turned up a fair bit, there's still delay in turning for me. But it looks so much prettier on even my PC than on the Xbox. Just gorgeous.

EDIT And apparently Steam has it for 75% off for a very, very limited time. Sale ends Thursday, 4pm Pacific time.
Edit2 I haven't been awake long enough apparently. That's for Oblivion, NOT Skyrim. Bad Treesh.

---

The ice troll is SO familiar. =) I love Lydia, but man, sometimes she's a little too aggressive.

Wait until you hit the Labyrinth on the way to dealing with the Greybeards. I snuck past three of the bastards. Killing 1 was tough, but doable. Killing 3? No thanks. The regen too quickly for an archer who has to relocate every 2 shots to avoid dying to their beastly claws.

<snip>

Anyway, my own tales of glory. Last night I killed 5 dragons.

Grats on the dragons, and the giant. A buddy of mine at work managed to find good terrain where he could hit them and they couldn't hit him so he managed to kill two of them. At level 4. Which made a link Tal sent me even funnier. =D There was someone on the boards who basically had almost every possible spawn point for dragons actually spawn dragons and he griped about them being Cliffracer 2.0. =) I've only seen the three so far, but I haven't done much with the main quest yet either.

Do the frost trolls absorb frost damage to heal themselves too? Because on one of the trolls I killed, I stayed at range and it mauled Lydia until we got it down. The next troll, I ended up in melee (with a weapon that did frost damage) and the damned thing instantly healed it seemed. Not just a really fast regen, but a chunk of health got returned to it after I swung the sword.

[Kevin]

Thumbs up or thumbs down - your opinions (well most of them anyway ) are greatly appreciated.

Have you played the Mass Effect games or Fallout 3? That's about the level of micro you need in Oblivion.

As I mentioned one of the things I like is that I can just put my perks (think WoW talent points) in whatever I've used (only skills you use increase) and I don't feel like I'm gimping myself. I talk to some people I don't talk to others. I craft some stuff just because I can, but if I don't it doesn't matter. I drink a few potions but I've never bought one and I haven't drunk one that I've made yet, only the ones I've found.

Mostly I do some of the quests I kill things, I grab loot, I sell stuff. I buy spells because i want them even if I don't really use them. Even as a primary caster I'm mostly using 3 spells, firebolt, healing, soul drain.

You can do more, but you don't need to. It takes less management than the previous TES games but in a good way. Playing it I'm starting to think D3 may have taken some of their redisgn ideas from it (stats are gone, perks are kinda like the D3 runes).

[kandrathe]

Promptly killed me, and I reloaded... and decided to wait a few levels before daring to venture up again - for fear that it was part of the trials of reaching the Greybeards! Little did I know it was just a random spawn, although I found much humor in the irony regardless.

Last night I faced off against "The Skinner", and it was an impossible battle until I realized I had a hidden power. There is usually some way to even the odds.

I thought dragons were pretty wimpy until one grabbed me, and hurled me skyward. After that, I was careful to avoid their bite/breath and patiently work on flanking them to mangle their wings from the side.

Part of my issue with tactics is that I hate to break character. My vision of this big burly Nord warrior/mage is that he does not sneak, hide, or run away. But, I do choose my battles, and try to get a terrain advantage. Most of my combat is up close and personal, saving ranged attacks for those that attempt to run away.

On my next character, I might go for the more wily and craven assassin/thief.

[Roland]

As yet, I have not picked up the game. I was hoping there would be a playable demo to get a feel of it, before dropping very limited cash on it, but that is not to be due to its size and complexity. So, a question. In the past, I've had great fun with games where you manage every detail. The talk here seems to be that the fun is found doing so in this one. I'm afraid I don't have the patience for doing so anymore. Is there room in this game to basically "kill stuff and grab loot"? It certainly looks gorgeous, and for once I think I have a machine that might do OK with the latest and greatest, but I fear it might be too futzy for me to make any progress. Thumbs up or thumbs down - your opinions (well most of them anyway ) are greatly appreciated.


[edit] I've watched the three part official "demo" video, but that is another reason I feel like it might be too much micromanaging for me to enjoy anymore. It feels like it is being run by a very practiced hand and thus hides a lot of the possibly overabundant detail management required.

While it's not quite as "Click -> Reward" as Diablo II was, it's also not really anymore complex than that - perhaps even less so. There's minimal need to fret over how to "build" your character - no stats to worry about except Health, Magicka, and Stamina (which also affects carrying capacity). 1 Perk point per level that can be invested in any skill group you have enough points in (and skills level up as you use them), so the skills you use the most will level up the fastest (and will level you up faster, too), and thus will have the most options for Perks. Really, the game is meant to just be played, period. However you want. If you want to just run around shooting / bashing / burning stuff and collecting goodies, you can - I do it for hours on a nightly basis (I've probably spent less than 1/5th the entire time in the game doing questing). One of the greatest things about Skyrim is the sheer number of things that you CAN do - not that you HAVE to do. It's a deceptively simple game to play (and thus enjoy), but with plenty of depth and variation to prevent the majority of people from getting bored or frustrated.

My biggest concern at the moment is the ability to power level beyond your capabilities. Having faced off against my first Blood Dragon last night, and earlier against a fort full of very tough Bandits (who managed to kill me before I could quaff a potion), I'm finding all my investment in Sneaking and Smithing (Sneak happens naturally, but I've been raising Smithing to raise the quality of my weapons and armor; also found my first Glass weapon - a dagger - right after buying an Elven Dagger ) has pushed me to a point where I have to pick my battles carefully at times. I decided to go on a bit of a dragon hunting spree to recoup some gold, but when the first one I found was a Blood Dragon I quickly decided that was a bad idea. I don't feel underpowered - on the contrary, I feel more balanced now than ever before - but it did bring to light the biggest weakness I've found in the game. If you're not careful, you can level yourself beyond your capabilities if you don't keep enough of a focus on your combat skills. If you're entire game consists of exploring, spelunking, and looting though, I doubt you'll ever run into much trouble. I've never had an encounter that couldn't be beaten, but I have had a few that required a couple restarts to accomplish, simply because it required more or better tactics than I was employing initially.

It's a fair bit of money to sink into a game, and my budget is tight as well. I didn't hesitate to plunk down the cash for it, though, and I can honestly say I have zero regrets about it so far - more than can be said for most games I've bought, even ones costing 1/3rd or less what I payed for Skyrim. The value for the dollar is definitely there, as the sheer amount of things you can do (and the absolute vastness of the world) will keep you going for months. I'm playing a very strict character type (Thief Archer, emphasis on the latter more than the former save for very high Sneak skill - i.e. minimal Speechcraft and Pickpocket, but decent Lockpicking), and loving every minute of it despite having never touched spellcasting, and barely scratched the surface of melee combat (a couple duals with a Saber Cat here and there with my Orcish Dagger). This is definitely a world I could see myself playing through more than once, with different character archetypes, simply because it's so vast, so beautiful, and so awe-inspiring. I distinctly remember a recent part of the main quest in which I had to go into a cave to retrieve a Horn - and finding a massive underground cavern, complete with a small forest. The view was breathtaking, to say the least. Even coming across a new dragon roost in search of a word of power always causes a moment of awe, just staring at the great beast I'm about to awaken with an arrow through his hide.

If you enjoyed Morrowind or Oblivion, you'll probably like Skyrim. If you wanted to enjoy Morrowind and Oblivion, but like me couldn't get past the major grievances with the systems, you'll probably love Skyrim. It feels... a little consolized at first, almost dumbed down, because everything is rather "simple", but it's deceptively so - there's still plenty of depth, it's just more... optional. It allows you to just play without having to worry, and enjoy the game without having to micromanage - which is exactly what you're looking for, if I'm understanding you correctly. If you have an Xbox 360, try renting it for a couple days - may be your best bet in trying to see if you'll enjoy it. Personally, I've yet to find anything that bogs down the gameplay - whether I'm crafting armors or potions, running through the wilds hunting deer and wolves, or pursuing my way through dungeons killing skeletons and draugr (like zombies), the overall pace of the game is very smooth. I never feel like I'm getting hung up on anything, and the most complex decisions I've had to make so far have mostly been related to combat tactics.

In short, two thumbs up, and minimal (if any) micromanagement.

[Zyn]

The one thing I can say about leveling non-combat skills is that it *shouldn't* make content tougher for you than intended. So far, Skyrim has been a *tough* game but fun and rewarding. Granted, if you shoot your Smithing up to 100 ASAP (Like I did) and gain extra levels because of it - you will find more powerful enemies and not have particular "Combat" perks to handle them as easily.

That being said, putting perks into Smithing lets you craft various weapons that are stronger, as well as taking a Grinstone to the weapons you do have and making them stronger/more level appropriate. Im level 33 at this point, dual wielding Mace of Molag Bar (Spelling?) and Grimsever at close range, using Mehrune's Razor and a Legendary Glass Dagger for Sneak attacking, and a Legendary Glass Bow for Ranged - and things just melt. I even turned the difficulty up from "Adept" (Normal) to see how tough it was - and its made the game more fun in the later levels. Im eyeballing "Master" difficulty if it gets easier than it is currently.

While there may be some tough levels between 10-25 where you seem to hit some enemies or Bandit Lords that cast projectiles that 2-shot you or close the gap and kill you faster than you can heal up - eventually it'll get better with gear/more powerful spells.

-Z

[Roland]

The one thing I can say about leveling non-combat skills is that it *shouldn't* make content tougher for you than intended. So far, Skyrim has been a *tough* game but fun and rewarding. Granted, if you shoot your Smithing up to 100 ASAP (Like I did) and gain extra levels because of it - you will find more powerful enemies and not have particular "Combat" perks to handle them as easily.

My Smithing is only up to 65, and I believe I just hit level 21 last night, so I'm not overleveled at this point. It is possible, but it's also fairly easy to avoid. As you did, you almost - almost - have to go out of your way to overlevel yourself by powering your way up one or two skills. I wanted to unlock Exquisite crafting since I have no Smithing perks (yet - unsure of when, or if, I want to unlock them), but my Smithing level is my highest skill at the moment (Sneaking and Archery are around 60 or 61, Light Armor is somewhere in the 40s, and Lockpicking & Alchemy are around 30, give or take). Personally, I've not found Skyrim overall to be very tough, but I'm playing at the default difficulty, and I've had enough experience with past TES games to know how they work. Last night was the first time in awhile I've faced truly challenging opponents without them being overpowered (Giants). I died to the bandits because I ran away from a Giant who decided I'd make a good snack, right into a fort I had just discovered that happened to house a whole slew of high-level bandits. So... yeah. My fault.

That being said, putting perks into Smithing lets you craft various weapons that are stronger, as well as taking a Grinstone to the weapons you do have and making them stronger/more level appropriate. Im level 33 at this point, dual wielding Mace of Molag Bar (Spelling?) and Grimsever at close range, using Mehrune's Razor and a Legendary Glass Dagger for Sneak attacking, and a Legendary Glass Bow for Ranged - and things just melt. I even turned the difficulty up from "Adept" (Normal) to see how tough it was - and its made the game more fun in the later levels. Im eyeballing "Master" difficulty if it gets easier than it is currently.

This is the other side of the coin. As you gain levels - regardless of how - you unlock better items for sale, and Smithing allows you to improve those items up to a certain point even without investing perks. So it's possible to remain somewhat balanced despite power leveling, with a little shopping and crafting investment. If you upped Pickpocketing to 100, I should hope you'd have found enough good gear to compensate. Speechcraft at least would net you solid prices on buying and selling, so high level gear would be more affordable. Alchemy would at least allow you to craft powerful potions and poisons to counteract your enemies. So, yes, it's difficult (but not impossible) to raise the challenge level beyond your means. Personally, most things I encounter fall quickly to a sneak attack from my Exquisite Elven Bow and Steel Arrows. I save the Dwarven & Elven arrows for Dragons, although those bandits shrugged off the Steel ones too easily for my taste.

While there may be some tough levels between 10-25 where you seem to hit some enemies or Bandit Lords that cast projectiles that 2-shot you or close the gap and kill you faster than you can heal up - eventually it'll get better with gear/more powerful spells.

-Z

As I said, I was caught in a bad position, while being weak from a previous fight, and got slaughtered due to horrible tactical choices and too many enemies. Also, I waited too long to quaff a potion. I think I could have pulled out alive, if not completely victorious, if I had made better decisions, but so it goes. I retired to town to craft some potions and experiment. I'm running low on cash, and Alchemy can be a good way to raise some, although my poor Speechcraft skill is hampering that extensively. At any rate, I'm right in that window, and I will concur that right around 20 you get a little jump in difficulty that takes a bit to adjust to when you're used to slaughtering just about anything in your path with ease. That Blood Dragon was a real eye opener. I won on the first attempt, and I definitely tempted fate by being conservative with my healing potions (and my poisons, for that matter), but even with my Elven Bow and Dwarven Arrows it was a long, tough fight, and his fire breath did plenty of damage even with my 14% Fire Resist potions and Lord's Stone 25% Magic Resist. It's good to fear dragons again, but it will definitely make me think twice about venturing out of town unprepared. Thus my Alchemy efforts last night (and still debating sinking a point or three into Alchemy perks), so I could stock up on more poisons and health potions to make those difficult fights easier. I have about 8 or 9 perk points saved up, and about half a dozen Dragon Souls waiting for words to unlock, so it's not like I can't boost myself up a bit (although the basic perks for Archery, Light Armor, and Sneak are all as high as I can put them - 3/5). I have zero magical items save for a 10% bartering amulet, so that's a factor too. I do not find myself weak, and I do not find the challenge unsatisfying. Last night was just a wake up call that the easy road is behind me - the real game is beginning.

[Drasca]

Ah about wooly mammoths and giants. I had been warned against them, how powerful they are.. So when I first encountered them, at level 5 or so, outside of white run and I had not faced any dragons yet... I just had to kill them.

First attempt I got launched into the air and died before I landed. However, after that I was prepared. I did run and gun, using land obstacles nearby for a tactical advantage in pursuit. I played roadrunner to their wile e coyote. Jumping off small cliffs or run up hills. I even found a small hut near the lunar forge to attack from freely.

Needless to say, after remorselessly hunting down giants and wooly mammoths, dragons were cake after that-- especially the first encounter with scripted help. I wondered why everyone else needed to be there. I had it guys.

However the first time I went to winter haven university, during my orientation tour all the masters of their respective magical schools were outside in the courtyard. I was getting a lecture when screech a dragon came roaring by. I knew it was not scripted as wild dragons attack towns on their own, but by the nine divines would it be cool if it were. The dragon circled over and again, and it was invincible in the sky-- but soon as it perched upon the university archway, fire ice and lighting came shooting from six directions , overwhelmed and roasted the beast.

It fell to a third health and crashed into the courtyard. I saw the arch age summon a dremora lord, the top of the daedra food chain, and the others had flame and ice Atronochs. Only a moment later the second barrage came and finished the beast. I could not have had a better introduction to the university of mages at winter haven than this massive display of power from its professors, all masters of magic. Color me impressed

[kandrathe]

My biggest concern at the moment is the ability to power level beyond your capabilities.

As with other TES titles, my biggest concern is taking an action that renders a future quest impossible to complete (e.g. Talk to xyz -- oops I killed him.) So, with Oblivion, and Morrowind as well, I tended to choose my characters desired progression, and then ensured those quest lines get done before venturing into found caves, and lairs. For example, I happened to be skimming the uespwiki on the Companions quest chain towards becoming the new Harbinger, and I noticed it conflicts with a Mage college quest if you do them out of order (Purity of Revenge after some quest given by the Jarl of Winterhold). So, this is timely. I've just diverted from the Companion quest line, filled with remorse over the death of my buddy Skjor, to take a break and finally go get that degree in the magical arts I've always wanted. Maybe if I'd been more skilled in restorative skills I would have been able to save him. But, now I know I need to return to my Companion friends to get and complete the quest line for Purity of Revenge, or face to possibility of being stuck due to the Jarl of Winterholds quest.

But... That is the price paid for having an entirely open game where the player can do things in any order they please. I was worried about my beginning since I followed Hadvar to Riverwood, ended up doing the Golden Claw quest to Bleak Falls Barrow where I picked up the dragon stone, before potentially being sent there in the main quest by the Jarl of Whiterun. The game was smart enough to offer a dialog option "Oh, you already have it!"

In short, two thumbs up, and minimal (if any) micromanagement.

I'd agree. It's just fun to wander around, taking in the sites, avoid giants, and fend off the occasional wild beast. I also like on the minimap now how if you've completed a place it shows "Cleared".