Best Candidate For A Movie?

[NiteFox]

In the absence of a Planescape movie, however, I'll pick Baldur's Gate. Seeing Minsc in a movie format would rock more than I can express in words.

Ah Minsc. Yeah, I can imagine a cinematic Minsc swinging a two-handed sword around with little Boo on his shoulder.

[WarLocke]

As always, It All Depends.

If I had to choose solely between BG and Diablo, BG would have to get the nod. While Diablo has some very nice backstory, the plot itself is nearly nonexistent.

Of course, BG goes off to the other extreme. There's so much history and plot points that it could never be done justice onscreen. Well, maybe as a "Frank Herbert's Dune" type of miniseries. But seriously, how are you going to explain Abeir-Toril, the Time of Troubles, Bhaal, Sarevok, Candlekeep, Waterdeep, yada yada yada in sufficient detail to keep the plot coherent? I'm not sure it can be done.

I think the better option for a film would be Icewind Dale (or perhaps even the sequel - there seems to be more plot involved this time). While you still have to explain the world and locations, there isn't so much plot that you couldn't fit it in (and besides, I really want to see Oswald Fiddlebender or Pondmuk in action, heh). There are also some excellent battles that would translate well to the screen. The palisade and fortress fights in chapter 1 are sweet, and the battle with Sherincal in chapter 2 is another (seeing a well-done Sherincal onscreen would be worth the price of admission in itself).

[Artega]

I haven't played the second IWD, and is going to be a long time before I can. I bought it, and I couldn't coax my computer to run it <cries>!

How much I want to play it, though... Can you say "All-Aasimar Party"? Is there any real significance in the "preferred class", though? Having at least one Paladin leading my party is a given, but do Aasimar get any bonuses since it's their "preferred class", or is that just suggesting what class to pick if you want to do some roleplaying? Likewise, do Dwarves get bonuses for being Fighters, Elves for being Sorcerors, etc.?

I never completed IWD, though. I uninstalled it after having to deal with all of those damnable Fire Salamanders and Tarnished Sentries every five seconds in Lower Dorn's Deep. I hate those stupid fire auras. That, and the fact that I couldn't tweak every graphical setting to allow my computer to attain a decent framerate while in that area (it was chugging along at about 7-12 fps on average in that area).

As for the movie subject, they'd probably end up butchering Baldur's Gate to fix it into movies, but if they managed to pull it off, it would almost certainly be the single-most successful movie series ever created. It would level anything Tolkien could do, anyway <_<

And yes, Minsc would make it successful.

"I turned to shield Boo, and have lost my spell. I am NOT sorry."

That, and Sarevok would be rather interesting to see, especially if they allowed him into the party.

"What if we were to return to Baldur's Gate together? I wonder what people would say?"

That, and it would be worth it to see Sarevok beat up on Anomen in the movie. Anomen's a great cleric (better than Viconia, anyway), but he DOES get on my nerves. Good thing I have Sarevok along to keep him in line -_-

And who could possibly forget Firkragg? Firkragg is THE man. Er, dragon. Yeah. He's MUCH cooler than Smaug :)

And everyone knows that Jon Irenicus is the coolest villain ever conceived. From his past, to his evil evil aspirations, to the way he talks... he just radiates evil coolness. I wish my Paladin were so cool :(

[Artega]

Pete,

Since when does a good movie need to come from a book? Given, many of the best movies that I've seen came from books, or spawned very good books (Men in Black turned out to be a really good book, actually - better than the movie, at any rate), but why does it matter that BG is a game? There's plenty of background and story to the game, and it's not exactly low-quality. At least, not in my opinion. I personally like the Abeir-Toril/Faerun setting more than Middile Earth, especially if you add in the whole inter-planar bit. The storyline never really felt terribly linear to me, but perhaps I wasn't looking hard enough.

At least BG wouldn't have to be hand-fed the storyline like in LotR. There's a base storyline, but it can and should be expanded on from there. Unlike in LotR, you aren't given some characters and their dialogue and then told to adapt it to the silver screen. Instead, you're given a protagonist whose only set characteristic is their heritage. Everything else, even the protagonist's sex, is up to the discretion of the player, or the writer in this case. You're given the NPCs, their appearances, their personalities, and their histories, but not what they say or how they act on their beliefs. Perhaps BG would be able to be a good movie, perhaps not. On paper, it looks much better than LotR, but that's taking a good number of X-factors for granted. Consider BG done with the talent of the LotR movie team. Do you think it would be beaten by, meet, or exceed LotR? I think it would exceed LotR. Gimli is no match for Minsc's hampster-powered goodness :)

And they don't say stupid things like "elvish" and "dwarfish" in BG. They're said "elven" and "dwarven", as it should be :P

[--Pete]

Hi,

Sorry, but look at the books made from games. All the one's I've looked at (too many by far) are inferior, with cardboard characters, stilted descriptive passages, linear and predictable plots and insipid writing. Look at the fantasy films based on the "group does quest to fight evil" genre. Again I've wasted my time on many. The only ones worth while that I know of are Hawk, the Slayer and Ladyhawk and even those two are pretty weak examples of movie making.

Since when does a good movie need to come from a book?

Since I never said that, I see no reason why I should defend it. A huge number of movies are not based on any book at all, and some of those were excellent. What a movie (or any other story for that matter) has to be based on is a solid concept. There isn't enough material in BG to make a movie if one excludes all the side quests and non-essential NPCs. And if one doesn't do that, then the movie becomes a morass of unconnected parts. It loses unity and focus and that in turn loses the audience. Therefore the movie will mostly have to be written by the script writers. Script writers are notorious for being poor at generating stories, their main purpose being to take a story and recast it so that it can be presented in visual form. For it to be good, the script writers will have to be both good writers and familiar with the game and the Forgotten Realms world. Look at how the D&D movie turned out, then tell me why you expect them to do better with BG.

At least BG wouldn't have to be hand-fed the storyline like in LotR. There's a base storyline, but it can and should be expanded on from there. Unlike in LotR, you aren't given some characters and their dialogue and then told to adapt it to the silver screen. Instead, you're given a protagonist whose only set characteristic is their heritage. Everything else, even the protagonist's sex, is up to the discretion of the player, or the writer in this case. You're given the NPCs, their appearances, their personalities, and their histories, but not what they say or how they act on their beliefs. Perhaps BG would be able to be a good movie, perhaps not. On paper, it looks much better than LotR, but that's taking a good number of X-factors for granted. Consider BG done with the talent of the LotR movie team. Do you think it would be beaten by, meet, or exceed LotR?

The fundamental flaw of your argument is that you are assuming that someone with Tolkien's talent for telling a story will take the concepts in BG and turn them into a good story. Then you are assuming that someone of Jackson's talent will take that good story and turn it into a good movie. It's possible. But look at the track record.

There hasn't been a single first rate book based on D&D that I've ever seen or heard of. (Yes, I know what I said above. But books are cheaper than movies. If someone could make a good story from a D&D game, the odds are much higher that it would appear as a book than as a movie.) So, clearly there is a gap to close between a good concept (of which there are many in RPG) and a good story based on that concept. So, that's hurdle number one.

Then this excellently told story (which at this point is purely hypothetical) must be made into a first rate movie. Now, how many movies are made each year? How many of those are even worth the time to watch? How many of those that are worth watching at least once are truly outstanding? Do you think that people wake up one day and say "I think I'll make a dull boring movie"? Even those that start with an excellent story often blow it. Look at the various strikes at Dune, or the few attempts with Heinlein's work.

So, you are claiming that a hypothetically great story written by some unknown screen writer based on the vague world and concepts of BG and made into an as yet mythical movie by some unnamed genius directer will be better than the existing reality of LotR. It is possible. But I'll put my money on the track record -- you can bet the long shot if you want. But don't tell me the long shot has the better chance until it moves from your mind to the track. ;)

And they don't say stupid things like "elvish" and "dwarfish" in BG. They're said "elven" and "dwarven", as it should be

Hmmm. First, I fear that Merriam Webster (www.m-w.com) doesn't see it your way. They have both "-ish" forms but neither "-en" ones. Second, Tolkien uses both forms, intentionally, for different purposes. And he even goes so far as to explain why. So, even in this small detail, BG is but half what LotR is. ;)

--Pete

[WarLocke]

there any real significance in the "preferred class", though?

A character's Preferred Class is only important if they are multiclassed. In 3E, you no longer have to decide to be multiclassed from the beginning; instead, whenever you have earned enough experience to gain a level, you can either increase a class you already have by a level, or gain a new one (for example, a level 3 Fighter and a level 2 Fighter/1 Rogue are both "level 3 characters"). This works because there is now a unified experience table -- all characters need 1000exp to make level 2, 3000exp for level 3, 6000exp for level 4, etc.

Now, for every 2 classes a multiclass character has that are more than 1 level apart, he or she takes a 20% penalty on all earned experience until the classes are within 1 level of each other again. Example: a 2/1 Fighter/Rogue has no penalty, but a 3/1 Fighter/Rogue has a 20% penalty, and a 1/2/4 Fighter/Rogue/Wizard has a 40% penalty (since both the Fighter and Rogue classes are more than 1 level apart from the Wizard).

A character's Favored Class, however, is ignored when determining if he or she has an experience penalty.

That, and the fact that I couldn't tweak every graphical setting to allow my computer to attain a decent framerate while in that area (it was chugging along at about 7-12 fps on average in that area).

I think you might be disappointed with IWD2 then. Although I could run IWD smoothly, IWD2 chugs in larger fights for me. Admittedly, it's probably because you get tons of enemies thrown at you, and the new spell effects are exquisite, but the fact remains that it does bog down hard in some areas.

"I turned to shield Boo, and have lost my spell. I am NOT sorry."

Eh, who ever used Minsc's spellcasting other than some post-battle CLWs? B)

And everyone knows that Jon Irenicus is the coolest villain ever conceived. From his past, to his evil evil aspirations, to the way he talks... he just radiates evil coolness. I wish my Paladin were so cool

You need to get IWD2 running. Sherincal is Irenicus-level cool, IMO. It's too bad she doesn't have a larger part in the plot.

And BG2 would never make a good movie because Jan wouldn't be done right... Jan is the man!

- WL

[Artega]

Maybe I should watch the snide remarks I make every now and then. A post originally meant for Diablo vs. BG ends up being Hypothetical-BG-Movie vs. Tolkien, and ends up with me being thoroughly beaten around, as usual :) I see your points quite clearly, Pete ;) BG probably is too... HUGE to be made into a movie, but a book is possible :) I wouldn't mind reading a series of BG books.

I didn't think Webster would even have "fantasy" words like elf and dwarf listed. Interesting.

I recently completed BG2 for the second time a week ago (this time with a romance with Jaheira - first time around, I romanced Aerie. Eventually I'll have to go back and do it all a third time with Viconia, even if she IS an Evil person :) ), and the sheer scope of the game does lend itself to being rather nebulous, for lack of a better word (or a better word that's in my fatigued mind at the moment), and that nonlinearity would definitely make a movie a difficult prospect. Again, I must yield to your logic, Pete. At any rate, I've started Planescape: Torment up again (I never actually finished it, since some arse at my school spoiled the ending for me, though I thought I'd do it all over again just for the hell of it), and I'm beginning to remember how enthralling it is. Although BG1/2 don't really make excellent candidates for a movie (though if it was ever pulled off successfully, I think I'd like them more than LotR :P ), PS:T would do admirably. While it probably wouldn't beat the might that is Tolkien, it would probably sell fairly well, if one could get over the... odd setting of Sigil. All of the characters are seemingly very well-developed (well, I didn't use Ignus or Vhailor my first time through, but I intend on using Vhailor in place of Nordom this time), and some of them have histories with the Nameless One (Vhailor, Morte, and Dak'kon do, IIRC. I can't remember if Annah or Fall-From-Grace do or not,) which adds to the rich backstory. The plot itself is original (I don't think I've seen a game with the protagonist being an immortal who has lost his mind), and works pretty well, for the most part. The sheer amount of dialogue you'll be reading makes it a poor game to play on a tired mind, but it's a good game nonetheless, and has some hilarious dialogue that even goes so far as to rival the hilarity that is Minsc (and Jan, if you have him in the party - Jan apparently wants to steal Boo. Assuming he could even do that, you can expect he wouldn't be among the living for much longer afterwards, eh?)

And I think that using "Elvish" and "Dwarvish" is perfectly acceptable when referring to languages, but I still say "Elven" and "Dwarven" sound better. I know Buzzard thinks so :) I lost my copy of LotR somewhere, but since we'll be moving soon, I might be able to find it in the chaos that is my room :) If not, I'll have to buy one of those stupid-looking books with Elijah Wood (spelling?) on the cover. Oh well... "Don't judge a book by its cover," I guess.

One last question: How is Tolkien pronounced? I've heard Tolkienites pronounce it as "Tol-keen" (heavy emphasis on the E, making the last part sound like the word "keen"), but I'm pretty sure one of the movie commercials pronounced it as "Tolken" (kinda like "token", but with an L added in). I'm siding with the Tokienites, but that's more because I trust the critics and press a lot less than the Tolkienites <_<

[Artega]

Er... uh... I don't think I EVER used Minsc to cast anything aside from Doom and Armor of Faith. That was just one the many things his Simulacrum spouted out from time to time (I got Simulacrum from Vhailor's Helm, not from that oh-so-amusing loophole exploit.)

As for preferred classes... it looks like I'm safe, then. My Paladin will be an Aasimar, of course (I like Aasimar. Something about having gold hair and eyes just strikes me as cool), and probably dedicated to Helm, though the ability to MC to a Mage under Mystra sounds awfully powerful (Priest spells, Mage spells, AND righteous ass-kicking all in one package; sounds like the DC'd Berserker/Mage on crack.) That does raise a question. Did they get rid of Dual-Classing, or simply rename it? Or am I not understanding that whole unified EXP system thingie correctly?

[WarLocke]

though the ability to MC to a Mage under Mystra sounds awfully powerful (Priest spells, Mage spells, AND righteous ass-kicking all in one package; sounds like the DC'd Berserker/Mage on crack.)

The Paladin of Mystra/Wizard-or-Specialist character looks neat on paper, but is hard to do in practice. They're extremely stat-intensive, since you'll need Str and Con and possibly Dex (if you plan to melee at all), Wis (to cast divine spells of level X you need 10+X, or Wis 13 for level 3 spells, etc), Int (skills are good, mmkay?) AND Cha (Lay on Hands/Smite Evil modifier, bonus to all saves, etc).

That does raise a question. Did they get rid of Dual-Classing, or simply rename it? Or am I not understanding that whole unified EXP system thingie correctly?

Yep, there's no more Dual-Classing in 3E. Either a character is single-classed or multi-classed, and you can have as many classes as you want (as long as you heed the experience penalty bit). The level cap in IWD2 is 30, IIRC, although I think the only way to reach it would be to play through with a single character, or a group in Heart of Fury mode, perhaps.

Soloing is actually rather fun... I had a solo Aasimar Sorceror for a while who rocked the house, but I canned her because I made bad spell selections. I think I may go back and try it again as a Drow (extra stat points + natural spell resistance = yummy).

- WL

[--Pete]

Hi,

There was quite a series of D&D books, some in Krinn, others in the Forgotten Realms and still others in universes I've forgotten. Some are still available at amazon, but you have to do your search carefully or you'll get more hits than you can handle.

As to how Tolkien is pronounce, I have no real idea. When I first ran across the name ('65), no one seemed to have heard of him. I've been calling him "toll kin" pronounced as fee for crossing a bridge and Scottish family. No one has ever corrected me, so???

--Pete

[WarLocke]

There were quite a few different series of D&D novels set in different worlds:

Forgotten Realms
Greyhawk
Krynn
Dark Sun (a particularly unique setting, IMO)

I think there were even a few Spelljammer and Birthright books published.

None of them are particularly great books, but some were decent. I think I still have a dozen or so in storage boxed up among all my other 500-odd old paperbacks.

- WL

[--Pete]

Hi,

I'd forgotten that it was Krynn with a "y" not an "i". Loved those Dragon Lances ;)

--Pete

[Occhidiangela]

That makes a movie, not the setting.

Look at Last of the Mohicans, recently made with Daniel Day Lewis. Great cinematography, made from a passably written and verbose book. Why was it a hit? The base story was shaped to a depth for cinema that evoked a feeling in a contemporary movie audience. Its tone was dis similar to the book, but it generally stayed to the plot, Duncan's death notwithstanding.

So, in you desire to put BG on fillm, what character, and what development do you see as the 'hook?' What combinations of challenges, internal and external, will present a coherent story arc that does not rely on George Lucas and special effects? :)

Plot twists have to be treated with care. They dont always satisfy the audience, particularly in the case of a deus ex machina.

Me, I'd rather see Diablo's world presented, but the focus would need to be on a Rogue, a Druid, a Paladin, an Amazon and maybe a Barbarian. Modest amounts of magic, or almost none, and lots of character interaction, lots of tripos and falls as we explore a small raid, or a small victory for the light over some of the forces of evil.

ELmore Leonard writes novellas that frequently get made into movies. "Valdez is COming' was a modest success as a film, Get Shorty better received.

Maybe a section of the story of Sanctuary would be worthy of filming. But the whole plot would need a lot of interaction from NPC's and a very strong glue to hold it all together.

Script writers try this all the time, with mixed success.

[TaMeOlta]

There were quite a few different series of D&D novels set in different worlds:

Forgotten Realms
Greyhawk
Krynn
Dark Sun (a particularly unique setting, IMO)

I think there were even a few Spelljammer and Birthright books published.

None of them are particularly great books, but some were decent.&nbsp; I think I still have a dozen or so in storage boxed up among all my other 500-odd old paperbacks.

- WL

Don't forget Planescape (I think CWX mentioned it ;) ), Greyhawk , and Ravenloft ! I think I have nearly every book from each of those settings , except for the Dragonlance (I focused on the Forgotten Realms at that time). Also a few (Spelljammer , Forgotten Realms , and Birthright) actually survived short stints as comic books .

If they were to make movies in each one of these realms , I would definitely want to check each out , as well as Baldurs Gate , and Diablo ...... toss in Terry Brook's Shannara series for good measure and I would be a happy camper ! :)

[WarLocke]

I recently rediscovered Ursula K. le Guin's Earthsea books, which were a profound influence on my childhood. I think that they would make a great trilogy, seeing Ged's first folly, the Tombs of Atuan, and even the Dry Land. Seeing the old majestic dragon Orm Embar would be grand.

That being said, though, Earthsea is much more a "grand fantasy" world than the typical D&Dish "high fantasy" mold. There are wondrous and magical things aplenty, but most are not of the flashy variety.