Bows of swiftness

[weakwarrior]

This sounds like a stupid question, even to me, but I got a bow of swiftness and I can´t seem to find a functional way to keep two monsters stunned at once. I don´t know if it´s because I don´t alternate clicks fast enough or what. Is the recovery time of some monsters too fast for this to be effective? Any tips would be appreciated.

[Hammerskjold]

This sounds like a stupid question, even to me, but I got a bow of swiftness and I can´t seem to find a functional way to keep two monsters stunned at once. I don´t know if it´s because I don´t alternate clicks fast enough or what. Is the recovery time of some monsters too fast for this to be effective? Any tips would be appreciated.

If I understand the question right and my memory isn't too faulty.

IIRC it depends on mostly 2 major things, who is firing the bow. And do you have enough damage to stun for that difficulty level.

Eg: A rogue doesn't need a swiftness bow to stun say, Lawyer\Advocate types. Once she has enough damage iirc, any bow will do at least in PvM. A Warrior could use some bows to good effect, a Sorceror bow shooting speed is probably only for stubborn, challenge variant player.

As for keeping 2 monsters stunned at once, I might not understand your question. If I understand you right, I could think of one bow that can, but it's a Hellfire only unique bow that fires a 3 multishot arrows.

[Sekel]

This sounds like a stupid question, even to me, but I got a bow of swiftness and I can´t seem to find a functional way to keep two monsters stunned at once. I don´t know if it´s because I don´t alternate clicks fast enough or what. Is the recovery time of some monsters too fast for this to be effective? Any tips would be appreciated.

There is few ways how to stun 2 enemies at once. Most probably it happens with Witches. When youre firing straight at one of them, while second one tries to cross your line of fire.
First arrow hits the Witch youre firing at and sends it to stunlock. The second arrow hits the Witch aproaching your fire, stunlocks it, and (in some situations) draws it back to the former position. That clears the way for a while, so next arrow can hit the first Witch ..... and you just fire arrows in front of you until both of them are dead.

This works for most of the monsters (in some special situations even for Balrogs).
Use walls for best efficiency. And try out which position draws monster back and which not. I could tell you, but it would be really confusing. I have never adapted W E N S conception generally used in Diablo anyway.
Practising will do :-)
Or take your naked mage, lure out one Lightning Demon and try out at which position it is possible to escape from its claws. There is 8 directions .... it cant take more than 5 minutes to find out and understand.

[Mahida]

This sounds like a stupid question, even to me, but I got a bow of swiftness and I can´t seem to find a functional way to keep two monsters stunned at once. I don´t know if it´s because I don´t alternate clicks fast enough or what. Is the recovery time of some monsters too fast for this to be effective? Any tips would be appreciated.

Everything below assumes you are a rogue:
A bow of swiftness takes 0.30 seconds to fire an arrow. So, in 3 seconds you would have to click 10 times alternating your target between each click. If it takes you 3.5 seconds to do the 10 clicks, you might as well be using an ordinary bow. In short it seems impossible, which is probably why the other replies focus on alternative ways of stunning two targets.

But let's forget that for now and look at the theory:
The monster hit recovery varies by monster type from 0.05 sec (Balrog) to 0.55 sec (Fallen One). If you are alternating between two targets, then each of them will be hit every 0.60 sec. Thus, even a fallen one will complete its hit recovery before it is hit again and a true stun lock is impossible. However, if the monster is standing still and attacking you, you don't need a true stun lock - you just need to hit it before the monster reaches the hit time of its attack (let's call it soft-stun). For a fallen one with sword (the worst) this is 0.40 sec. This means you just need to hit them every 0.95 sec. Two clicks per 0.95 seconds sounds doable to me, so you CAN actually soft-stun two fallen ones provided they are standing still and attacking you. Goat men archers have hit recovery 0.30 and hit time 0.65, so hitting them every 0.95 seconds is also sufficient. All other monster types would be more difficult, since they are faster, and it becomes a question of how fast you can click. Assuming perfect clicking (an arrow at each target every 0.60 sec), the only monsters which CANNOT be soft-stunned are magma demons, lightning demons, balrogs, knights and Diablo - but this is pure theory unless you can actually click that fast.
The major assumption regarding soft-stun is that the monster is NOT moving. Movement makes things much more complicated...

[weakwarrior]

Your post was extremely helpful. Quick point - assuming constant click time (which seems reasonable to me) if the hit + recovery is greater than 0.7 seconds the swiftness isn´t necessary/helpful for the double stun either. Right?

So the usefulness of a swiftness bow is pretty much limited to shooting faster at one target? Clicking every 0.3 seconds on 1 target seems quite doable.

[FireIceTalon]

Your post was extremely helpful. Quick point - assuming constant click time (which seems reasonable to me) if the hit + recovery is greater than 0.7 seconds the swiftness isn´t necessary/helpful for the double stun either. Right?

So the usefulness of a swiftness bow is pretty much limited to shooting faster at one target? Clicking every 0.3 seconds on 1 target seems quite doable.

swiftness is pvm isnt all its made out to be. Sure its nice, but not at all necessary. Although if you are playing a low ac rogue in hell/hell, using swiftness is a good idea for crowd control, especially against vipers and dogs which tend to be very quick. And vs knights of course, it works wonders. It IS better for double stun though in some situations, in particular vs witches as someone else pointed out when one is trying to cross the fire line. This double stun feature combined with a wall is a good crowd control tactic as well.

Overall if im playing my rogue with high ac, i usually opt to use my Obsidian Heavens bow over my Massive Swiftness, though if im playing low ac in a fast hell/hell coop ill use the swift then as non-swift bows, while perfectly fine, often slow down my play a bit.

[weakwarrior]

swiftness is pvm isnt all its made out to be. Sure its nice, but not at all necessary. Although if you are playing a low ac rogue in hell/hell, using swiftness is a good idea for crowd control, especially against vipers and dogs which tend to be very quick. And vs knights of course, it works wonders. It IS better for double stun though in some situations, in particular vs witches as someone else pointed out when one is trying to cross the fire line. This double stun feature combined with a wall is a good crowd control tactic as well.

Overall if im playing my rogue with high ac, i usually opt to use my Obsidian Heavens bow over my Massive Swiftness, though if im playing low ac in a fast hell/hell coop ill use the swift then as non-swift bows, while perfectly fine, often slow down my play a bit.

You say against knights it works wonders. Can you explain how? You still can´t double stun, and to stun one knight you don´t need it. I guess you mean given the large number of hps you´ll need quite a few shots to take him down so it´s more useful to have the most efficient damage per unit time, whereas with monsters which take 2-3 shots you will need to switch targets more often, and so damage per shot is more helpful. But since I´m trying to figure out the best use of the weapon I want to make sure I understand correctly.

[FireIceTalon]

You say against knights it works wonders. Can you explain how? You still can´t double stun, and to stun one knight you don´t need it. I guess you mean given the large number of hps you´ll need quite a few shots to take him down so it´s more useful to have the most efficient damage per unit time, whereas with monsters which take 2-3 shots you will need to switch targets more often, and so damage per shot is more helpful. But since I´m trying to figure out the best use of the weapon I want to make sure I understand correctly.

Knights have alot of hp, and indeed the increased damage per unit of time is great due to the fact knights tend to be slow and pretty predictable.

It really comes down to your playing style. The rogue is very flexible char and can be played in a multitude of ways. A standard rogue with an Awesome full plate and RC certainly doesnt need swiftness. I would recommend using swift if you play a low ac rogue as these chars are very fragile and need to kill as quickly as possible, though gaming with a low ac rogue and a non-swiftness bow is certainly gameable, but can be tedious. I try to be as versatile as possible though so I play my rogue with 3 different bows and use both low and high ac.

[Mahida]

Your post was extremely helpful. Quick point - assuming constant click time (which seems reasonable to me) if the hit + recovery is greater than 0.7 seconds the swiftness isn´t necessary/helpful for the double stun either. Right?

So the usefulness of a swiftness bow is pretty much limited to shooting faster at one target? Clicking every 0.3 seconds on 1 target seems quite doable.

Correct in both cases. Just to clarify, it's not just useful when shooting at one target, it also works great against a LINE of targets. When the first one dies, the arrows simply pass on to the next one. Lining them up is pretty easy, just retreat to the nearest corner and walk a fair distance around it hugging the wall. The monsters will round the corner and come at you in a nice line which you can cut to shreds. If they get too close simply retreat and repeat. Of course this strategy works with all bows (and a lot of spells).

If you wish to compare the damage per time unit of a swiftness bow to a normal bow, just multiply the damage displayed on the character screen by 7/6 (almost the same as increasing it by 17%). The result will be damage per 0.35 second, which is the attack time of an normal bow.

[FireIceTalon]

Correct in both cases. Just to clarify, it's not just useful when shooting at one target, it also works great against a LINE of targets. When the first one dies, the arrows simply pass on to the next one. Lining them up is pretty easy, just retreat to the nearest corner and walk a fair distance around it hugging the wall. The monsters will round the corner and come at you in a nice line which you can cut to shreds. If they get too close simply retreat and repeat. Of course this strategy works with all bows (and a lot of spells).

If you wish to compare the damage per time unit of a swiftness bow to a normal bow, just multiply the damage displayed on the character screen by 7/6 (almost the same as increasing it by 17%). The result will be damage per 0.35 second, which is the attack time of an normal bow.

True enough.

One thing id like to mention though, swiftness in pvp does make a huge difference, unlike pvm. Swiftness is indespensible on a rogue dueling, that fast attack makes it alot more difficult for your opponent to teleleport, thus controlling their movement better. Dueling w/o a swift bow is fine, but at high lvl pvp I rarely use anything else (ill pull out the Merciless Burning for fun sometimes vs warriors) and one who experiments with both types of bows should surely get better results using swiftness, vs almost any opponent.

[Sekel]

Everything below assumes you are a rogue:
A bow of swiftness takes 0.30 seconds to fire an arrow. So, in 3 seconds you would have to click 10 times alternating your target between each click. If it takes you 3.5 seconds to do the 10 clicks, you might as well be using an ordinary bow. In short it seems impossible, which is probably why the other replies focus on alternative ways of stunning two targets.

Dont get me wrong guys, but if your primary (nonalternative) way, how to stun 2 enemies means two (and exactly two) monsters standing right in front of you ... then, perhaps, you should try to play warrior instead. Or CC rogue.

Maybe, Im affected by the fact, that none of my rogues had really overkill AC, but I consider such tactic as very un-rogue anyway.

Im sorry for the dig, but I just had to point it out :-)

[Mahida]

Dont get me wrong guys, but if your primary (nonalternative) way, how to stun 2 enemies means two (and exactly two) monsters standing right in front of you ... then, perhaps, you should try to play warrior instead. Or CC rogue.

Maybe, Im affected by the fact, that none of my rogues had really overkill AC, but I consider such tactic as very un-rogue anyway.

Im sorry for the dig, but I just had to point it out :-)

Are you upset that I described your way of stunning two succubi as alternative? It has been a while since I've played a rouge in hell, and I recall this as being something which occurred by chance. If you know the succubi AI well enough to actively coax them into this setup, so you can stun-lock two of them, then I agree this would be a very useful way of stun-locking two of them.

As for your comments to my post, I'd like to stress a point: I wrote this as a response to the original question of whether or not it was POSSIBLE to stun two monsters at once. I never intended it to be an effective strategy regardless of your AC. It "might" be a useful "fallback plan" if two monster manage to get close to you, since it prevents them from ever hitting you (assuming can click fast enough), but I would not plan to let the monsters get that close. And no, I haven't testet it. But if I did, I would try with goat men archers first, since they should be among the easiest. If I am far enough away and in their line of sight I assume they'll stand still and shoot at me, right?

[Nystul]

I think the general reality is that exactly 2 enemies is rarely a problem with any bow. And using a bow against more than 2 enemies, you would almost always be best served to focus on eliminating one as quickly as possible rather than alternating shots between 2 (or more) to stun them.

[TheKingofKewl]

True enough.

One thing id like to mention though, swiftness in pvp does make a huge difference, unlike pvm. Swiftness is indespensible on a rogue dueling, that fast attack makes it alot more difficult for your opponent to teleleport, thus controlling their movement better. Dueling w/o a swift bow is fine, but at high lvl pvp I rarely use anything else (ill pull out the Merciless Burning for fun sometimes vs warriors) and one who experiments with both types of bows should surely get better results using swiftness, vs almost any opponent.

Found anything new and interesting lately FIT?

I upgraded finally to a Quad processor...and yes I got Vista. I don't seem to mind it though.

[FireIceTalon]

Found anything new and interesting lately FIT?

I upgraded finally to a Quad processor...and yes I got Vista. I don't seem to mind it though.

Heya Roldan! Been awhile, how is everything? I got a new comp for xmas as well, its lovely.

No really good items find lately, but I havent really been lookin either. Been too busy practicing and honing my PvP skills for the upcoming Call To Arms Duel Tournament which starts Feb. 21......although today I found a rather depressing item from Sir Gorash, a Kings Great Sword of Vampires. Would have much preferred a speed/haste. Maybe a decent Dragons Wizardry jewel some weeks ago as well.

Get your ass back on d1 man, I could use another warrior to practice killing in my training :D

Take care.

[TheKingofKewl]

Heya Roldan! Been awhile, how is everything? I got a new comp for xmas as well, its lovely.

No really good items find lately, but I havent really been lookin either. Been too busy practicing and honing my PvP skills for the upcoming Call To Arms Duel Tournament which starts Feb. 21......although today I found a rather depressing item from Sir Gorash, a Kings Great Sword of Vampires. Would have much preferred a speed/haste. Maybe a decent Dragons Wizardry jewel some weeks ago as well.

Get your ass back on d1 man, I could use another warrior to practice killing in my training :D

Take care.

nice! I've been playing Temple of Elemental Evil (I love crafting magic weapons). Yet even on my Quad there is slow down on some parts, someone was saying it might be my video card but I got a nvidea 512mb but who knows. Been going a little crazy downloading games at Emulation.net for my ds to.

Are you not good enough a dueler already? lol. Well I can see more practice since the Tourny is coming up. I found a kings/haste only once I think in a dungeon.

I'll dig up my cd, I'll see about coming online this weekend.